Diamond Princess passenger "tested positive for Wuhan coronavirus"

[K.T.B.]

17 minutes ago, Maverick61 said:

 

 

Ummm yeah - sorry this may come across as harsh but Japan had to concern themselves more with the needs of the 126 million people than 4000 people on a ship.  

 

And just where would Japan or any country for that matter have 4,000 ready to go isolation spaces at the drop of a hat.  Ever consider the fast moving and unknown nature of this,  The logistic involved in doing what you suggested.  All those things take time.  Which is why sadly, keeping the passengers on board in isolation was the best option available at that time.  Since then the situation evolved, other governments agreed to fly home their citizens and out them in isolation in their home country, etc.  But again, all of that takes time and planning

 

Requesting the help of the passengers' countries perhaps?  Or even asking for help from WHO or any other health organization?  Instead, they keep it "in country" and thousands on board are put at risk because Japan refused to use whatever detection kits they had on the passengers by making sure they had them for their own citizens.

 

All Japan truly did is prevent the passengers from getting assistance while keeping their own citizens "safe". A fat lot of good that did them because they have 74 cases, of which, as far as I have read, only 1 came from the ship.

 

I'm not saying they should have released the passengers, I'm saying they should have looked for outside help from the very beginning in some way.  Regardless, hindsight is 20/20.  But, IMO, Japan made matters worse for nearly 4,000 people needlessly.

[JennAngel9]

I am hopeful that the infection disease professor/doctor in Japan may have functioned as an effective whistleblower such that Japan cannot allow current passengers to mix back into international hotels, airports, airplanes, mass transit, etc.  If he helped change the decision-making over the next 24h, he is a hero who likely saved thousands (millions?) of lives.

 

If Japan does let the passengers mix back into society starting tomorrow (today in Japan!), I don't think we can say that the quarantine kept the people of Japan any safer, because presumably a non-trivial % of all cases grew during the quarantine.

 

Lastly, to whomever asked about why we haven't seen more YouTube videos from recovered cases, 99% of them are in China blocked by the GFW.

[Maverick61]

3 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Requesting the help of the passengers' countries perhaps?  Or even asking for help from WHO or any other health organization?  Instead, they keep it "in country" and thousands on board are put at risk because Japan refused to use whatever detection kits they had on the passengers by making sure they had them for their own citizens.

 

All Japan truly did is prevent the passengers from getting assistance while keeping their own citizens "safe". A fat lot of good that did them because they have 74 cases, of which, as far as I have read, only 1 came from the ship.

 

I'm not saying they should have released the passengers, I'm saying they should have looked for outside help from the very beginning in some way.  Regardless, hindsight is 20/20.  But, IMO, Japan made matters worse for nearly 4,000 people needlessly.

 

How do you even know when Japan started contacting other governments  or agencies for assistance / guidance?

 

Do you know the logistics involved in what you are suggesting dealing with 4000 people?

 

As to test kits, you do realize there is a shortage of them.  You don't just use them on people willy nilly.  Nor would it have made sense to test everyone early on given the incubation period of the virus.

 

[NorthwestCruiser]

Um, what outside help?   If Japan needs help then what about Senegal, Afghanistan, Eritrea, Gaza, Belarus, ….   The sad fact is that the developed countries have not wanted to spend money on potential global outbreaks.  It is just not popular, how much do you want your taxes to go up to pay for infection control in the Congo?   Ebola is also a real threat and the funding is quite a challenge.   It isn't like there is a huge cadre of trained infectious disease control experts just sitting around waiting to spring into action, what we don't pay for doesn't exist except in the movies.

 

What you see is what you have got.   We are going to have to deal with this on our own mostly, and try to help out however we can wherever we can.

[SharkieRools]

6 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Requesting the help of the passengers' countries perhaps?  Or even asking for help from WHO or any other health organization?  Instead, they keep it "in country" and thousands on board are put at risk because Japan refused to use whatever detection kits they had on the passengers by making sure they had them for their own citizens.

Who says they didn't?

"We are in constant contact with the Japanese government, the International Maritime Organization, and the owner of the ship to protect the health of all passengers."

https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-ebola-and-covid-19-outbreaks

"The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has provided recommendations relating to the quarantine of passengers and crew onboard the Diamond Princess..."

https://japan2.usembassy.gov/pdfs/alert-cdc-letter-for-diamond-princess.pdf

[bluesea321]

4 minutes ago, JennAngel9 said:

I am hopeful that the infection disease professor/doctor in Japan may have functioned as an effective whistleblower such that Japan cannot allow current passengers to mix back into international hotels, airports, airplanes, mass transit, etc.  If he helped change the decision-making over the next 24h, he is a hero who likely saved lives.

 

If Japan does let the passengers mix back into society starting tomorrow (today in Japan!), I don't think we can say that the quarantine kept the people of Japan any safer, because presumably a non-trivial % of all cases grew during the quarantine.

 

I could not agree with you more. Very well said!!!

I don't fault the Ministry of Health for its early handling of the Diamond, things were evolving fast, but I would fault them if they release the pax without a quarantine on-shore like the US, Canada, Australia and others are doing. And for whatever it is worth, I just emailed the Editor of the Japan Times forwarding the video from Professor Iwata in case they had not seen it. 

 

[bluesea321]

3 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

You beat me to it! 

 

Good minds think alike!!!  😀

 

However, after watching the video of Professor Iwata  I am now more concerned about the potential release of the remaining passengers off the ship. IMO a quarantine on land (like various countries are doing) is needed here.

[dog]

1 minute ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Good minds think alike!!!  😀

 

However, after watching the video of Professor Iwata  I am now more concerned about the potential release of the remaining passengers off the ship. IMO a quarantine on land (like various countries are doing) is needed here.

Agree need to start thinking about those on land in all countries. My heart goes out to those who went through this on the Diamond. Let’s hope it never happens again. I cruise in 2 weeks on a Princess ship. 

[bluesea321]

5 minutes ago, dog said:

Agree need to start thinking about those on land in all countries. My heart goes out to those who went through this on the Diamond. Let’s hope it never happens again. I cruise in 2 weeks on a Princess ship. 

 

I hope and suspect that all will go well on your cruise, Dog. Enjoy!!!

[Cruise Raider]

4 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Good minds think alike!!!  😀

 

However, after watching the video of Professor Iwata  I am now more concerned about the potential release of the remaining passengers off the ship. IMO a quarantine on land (like various countries are doing) is needed here.

 

Me, too!  I just cannot imagine they are not planning on quarantining them immediately after they get off the ship  and probably just not announcing yet as they probably fear they are going to rebel.  It's the greatest misfortune that this group is in the batch of 'test passengers' ... but now, to prevent a further spread of this virus of epic proportions, they really need to be quarantined at least until no new cases show up.  I would think they are figuring out the logistics behind the scenes of how they are going to accomplish this.  I can't imagine the US, Canada or Australia, etc. is going to just let these passengers fly back to their home towns and go about their daily lives.  Time will tell ...

I did hear another report today that this virus is now thought to be 20 times more fatal than the seasonal flu.  In the early days, all sorts of healthcare professionals were downplaying it as nothing worse than the common cold.  They are all changing their tunes now.  

[gphb]

14 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

  26 minutes ago, JennAngel9 said

If Japan does let the passengers mix back into society starting tomorrow (today in Japan!), I don't think we can say that the quarantine kept the people of Japan any safer, because presumably a non-trivial % of all cases grew during the quarantine.
 

I could not agree with you more. Very well said!!!

I don't fault the Ministry of Health for its early handling of the Diamond, things were evolving fast, but I would fault them if they release the pax without a quarantine on-shore like the US, Canada, Australia and others are doing. And for whatever it is worth, I just emailed the Editor of the Japan Times forwarding the video from Professor Iwata in case they had not seen it. 

 

 

Ditto.   I do think getting this video out is important.   Professor Iwata is now in contact with the BBC.   

 

While he alluded to it in the English language translation, I understand he was clearer in the Japanese language version that he thinks all the health workers on the ship will likely be spreading it when they return to their hospitals.  

 

Other direct quotes from his Twitter timeline (https://twitter.com/georgebest1969) on the subject of the Diamond Princess include:

 

• "Infection control is scattered, worse than in Africa"
   
• "I've been so appalled that I've been fainted, and I've never felt my infection risk so intensely in my 20+ year doctor life. When it came to fighting SARS in Beijing in the fight against Ebola in Africa, it was not so scary. I'm sorry for DMAT."
   
• "By the way, I was warned that the future of bureaucrats who invited me to join me was worried. That is wrong. It is not bad to invite, but a great person somewhere who drives out without permission is bad."

(translated from Japanese language by Twitter)

 

On his blog, he is also a bit more realistic.  "Infection control may or may not work. The goal is to be 100% perfect. That's why the "itself" that did not work is inevitable. But it's best not to look away and pretend to be "good" because of the fact that it didn't work"

[dodger1964]

13 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

didn't mean to quote...sorry

 

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by dodger1964

[Pushka]

8 hours ago, phil the brit said:

Can anyone involved make a good decision? Are they all imbeciles?

You cannot let anyone off this ship to just roam free wherever they please. 324 have proved positive in the LAST FOUR DAYS. Quarantine has NOT worked.

This is a recipe for disaster in all countries when these people make their way to their respective countries. They must all now go to isolation in a proper quarantined place for a further 14 days without the kind of appalling  interactions they have had on the ship. That was a complete waste of everybody's time on the ship obviously.

 

If they announced now that people would not be leaving the ship when expected then there would be a lot of angst. People manage their emotions up to a date. Break that date and there will be significant issues. I think they are just delaying that time. 

[Pushka]

7 hours ago, pully8 said:

we do not know the true extent of this.

or the number of deaths in china and may never know.

.

 

We also don’t know the true infection rates and never will. I’d expect the death rate to be well below 2% because of all those people who have it and don’t need, want or get medical assistance. 

[bluesea321]

3 minutes ago, gphb said:

Ditto.   I do think getting this video out is important.   Professor Iwata is now in contact with the BBC.   

 

Good to hear, thanks.

[voljeep]

can Princess just pull up anchor and head back to the US ? - time to get out from under Japans thumb … 

[bluesea321]

17 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

Me, too!  I just cannot imagine they are not planning on quarantining them immediately after they get off the ship  and probably just not announcing yet as they probably fear they are going to rebel.  It's the greatest misfortune that this group is in the batch of 'test passengers' ... but now, to prevent a further spread of this virus of epic proportions, they really need to be quarantined at least until no new cases show up.  I would think they are figuring out the logistics behind the scenes of how they are going to accomplish this.  I can't imagine the US, Canada or Australia, etc. is going to just let these passengers fly back to their home towns and go about their daily lives.

 

According to this article:   "Airlines refuse to take passengers from cruise ship in Cambodia"

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/02/28f927f29575-airlines-refuse-to-take-passengers-from-cruise-ship-in-cambodia.html

 

If they are doing that for the Westerdam I wonder if they will do the same for the Diamond passengers.  I would not want to be on a plane with any of them.

[YlangYlangF9PB3E]

7 hours ago, phil the brit said:

What questions? Are you serious? Questions about the poor decisions made by "experts" about air pollution, food delivery, contact with staff and other members of the public, screening, I could go on and on.

So many bad decisions. I know, monday morning quarterback is easy etc. David and Sally's room to hallway vent was only taped up THIS MORNING, a bit late don't you think?

Let’s not forget passing the virus through the waste lines. Ever have a problem with your toilet and a crew member magically fixes it without coming into your room? There is a panel to fix the toilet in the hallway. Ever flush your toilet and smell poop when you haven’t pooped? Those waste lines are intermingled. It has also been determined that this virus can spread through not just fecal matter but also passed gas (farts)! They evacuated an entire apartment building during the SARS outbreak because of this same problem of sewage pipes carrying the virus and infecting neighbors.

[greenie082756]

After reading this vlog for several days and listening to the Dr.'s video that is a specialist in managing infectious diseases, I think this is why most of the countries that have received the passengers have added 14 more days. To do more testing and manage the possibilities of an outbreak of the virus among those there.

This is for their own benefit. What I gathered was that even though Japan and other officials tried to manage this

outbreak of the virus, it possibly was not done with the correct procedures.

I am praying that we hear that most of the passengers are doing okay. What has been done is done. Lets all hope that something good can from this bad situation.

[NorthwestCruiser]

19 minutes ago, voljeep said:

can Princess just pull up anchor and head back to the US ? - time to get out from under Japans thumb … 

Great!  What port city do you live in so we can be sure to have the disembarkation there.   

[voljeep]

1 minute ago, NorthwestCruiser said:

Great!  What port city do you live in so we can be sure to have the disembarkation there.   

I give japan and all other countries 10 days to get "their" people off if desired and do with them what they want

 

after that, anchors away to head back to US of A to dock at Princess California headquarters , then Princess and the US is in complete charge

[bluesea321]

From the Japan Times today:

 

“Given how the virus has continued to spread, we have to presume everyone leaving the ship is potentially infected, and therefore they have to go through another two-week quarantine period. Not to do so would be reckless.”

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/19/national/science-health/quarantine-cruise-ship-yokohama-comes-question-hit-virus-incubator/#.XkxbIhNKjPA

 

Hard to believe that they are going to be allowed to roam at will, surely not.

Edited February 18, 2020 by bluesea321

[azbirdmom]

15 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

https://www.insider.com/covid-19-rapidly-spreading-on-quarantined-cruise-ship-542-cases-2020-2

 

I went to the FB page ( https://www.facebook.com/mothpom ) of the person mentioned in the article and her first post said that 8 people had already tested positive at Travis and it was only 9:30 AM.  The bad news just keeps getting worse but at least they are "home".

[TrulyBlonde]

New letter just sent to guests from US on Princess Diamond regarding coming home to USA. Nope...not happening until they are released and then must do 14 day somewhere before any of them are allowed to enter the  United States. Assume they were exposed and still a possibility of acquiring virus. Looks like some gambled and lost. 

Steve Herman

 

@W7VOA

·

11m

 

And

@CDCgov

has notified these #DiamondPrincess passengers that travel restrictions will be placed on them as they "are reasonably expected of having had an exposure" to the #COVID19 #coronavirus.

Edited February 18, 2020 by TrulyBlonde

[azbirdmom]

7 minutes ago, TrulyBlonde said:

New letter just sent to guests from US on Princess Diamond regarding coming home to USA. Nope...not happening until they are released and then must do 14 day somewhere before any of them are allowed to enter the  United States. Assume they were exposed and still a possibility of acquiring virus. Looks like some gambled and lost. 

 

They had been told prior to declining the trip back to the US that they would not be allowed to leave Japan until March 4th at the earliest so unless there is something more on the letter, this should not be a surprise to those who stayed.