Diamond Princess passenger "tested positive for Wuhan coronavirus"

[bluesea321]

12 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

Well, Japan is apparently letting them travel the country, so they and the US seem to have a different opinion over whether it's safe or not. Perhaps other nations have similarly differing opinions. (Personally, I don't think it is safe. But every nation has many people far more qualified than me to make such a judgement.)

 

I don't think it is safe either. And the US is not alone, Canada, Australia, Hong Kong, South Korea, etc. are all quarantining passengers upon return to their countries. Japan seems to be the exception. And various scientists in Japan are questioning this move. See article.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/19/national/science-health/quarantine-cruise-ship-yokohama-comes-question-hit-virus-incubator/#.XkyjkRNKjPA

Edited February 19, 2020 by bluesea321

[Earthworm Jim]

46 minutes ago, Pushka said:

In reality I suspect that border entry in Aus and USA might question everyone whose last stop before the flight was Tokyo and they would be taken aside for questioning. 

 

 

Would there be some kind of screening before they were allowed on the plane to Australia (or wherever)? if they fly to someplace on a commercial flight, and that nation denies them entry, that doesn't solve the problem. Now you have a whole planeload of potentially infected passengers to deal with.

 

I'm not a real big international flier, but I can't imagine every nation has people in every other nation's airports screening passengers before they are allowed to even board a flight to that country. I assume for most nations it is done when you arrive, no? (I admit I could be totally wrong on this)

[matadams4u]

10 hours ago, californiagirl said:

I have been a longtime member of the cruise critic community and rarely post anymore. However I just watched the entire video from the Infectious Disease doctor who teaches at Kobe University in Japan.  (I think that is what he said.)  All I can say is WOW, JUST WOW!  I am an RN and my last years working I spent in Infection Control.  What he had to say about the conditions on the Diamond are shocking and disturbing.  The fact that “bureaucrats” (his word) are in charge and not medical professionals trained in infection control explains completely the progression of the virus throughout the ship.  I suspect the “quarantine” of Diamond Princess will be studied and analyzed for years to come.  Most likely used as THE example of how not to quarantine/control a potentially deadly virus.

 

Some of his points that stood out to me as unbelievable:

 

- no ID trained medical professional in charge of the operation

- no red or green zones, meaning no defined clean or contaminated zones

- haphazard use of PPE (personal protection equipment) 

- the doctor (I think he said) who is no longer wearing PPE or even practicing good universal precautions because she thinks she is already exposed to the virus...she could be spreading the virus!

- people eating in random areas and some with gloves on!  Were the gloves at least clean???
- the hubris of the bureaucrats in charge to kick him off the ship because he was critical of how they are managing the situation

 

I fear the people in Yokohama are now at SIGNIFICANT risk of COVID-19 being disseminated throughout the general population because of the way these Japanese officials have mis-managed the Diamond Princess.  

Well said - there are so many opportunities for case studies from so many angles.  It will be interesting to see what changes to common protocols occur do to this experience.

[KBYUCougar]

27 minutes ago, Cruising Is Bliss said:

 

One test takes that long. Doesn't mean a lab can do hundreds of tests all in the same four hour period. This is a specialized test requiring a trained lab person, expensive lab equipment, and virus specific testing supplies.

 

Same test as Westerdam passengers. There's only one test for the virus and the test kits are in short supply everywhere.

 

 

2 hours ago, hal2008 said:

Looking for some clarifications form people who the details about testing.

 

1. How can some countries do hundreds of tests pretty quickly burt Japan has been doing only handful per day and takking 2-3 days for the results?

 

2. Are these tests done on DP pax same as those beong done on Westerdam pax in combodia?

 

3. CDC web site seems to indicate that rRT-PCR test should take 4 hours. so why so many places are talking about 2-3 days?

 

(will also enquire in HAL forum)

First of, sorry these posts are quoted out of order.

 

Lab tech here. Yes the test takes about 4 hour. However, each batch can only handle so many tests (usually 6-24 tests at a time). Most labs will only run PCR testing if every lane (or sample spot) is full to save money. It is both time and cost effective to run tests this way. If only 24 tests can be run at a time you can see where the back up can occur. These tests are very labor intensive. It is easy to invalidate the test of you move too quickly. Having a PCR analyzer that has more lanes isn't always possible. The bigger the analyzer, the more costly the analyzer. 

 

What is also adding extra time is if an indeterminate test comes back (not strongly positive or negative), they have to repeat the testing. To ensure accuracy, it is possible (though not confirmed), the Japanese may be running every test twice to increase their confidence with the result. 

 

I'm not sure if this is the case out not, but some labs can't sacrifice an entire instrument to only run this test exclusively. They may need it to work perform flu testing, genetic testing, etc. 

 

To validate a machine, it can take days to validate. The shortest timeframe I could get an analyzer and testing validated was 24 hours. It was days before Christmas, I worked at a small hospital next to several resorts and our urine drug today analyzer died. That was one of the most stressful things I've ever done getting the new analyzer up and validated. 

 

The extra labs given approval to run this PCR test in the states was to help process more results faster, and closer to home to help decrease turn around time.

[Pushka]

16 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

Would there be some kind of screening before they were allowed on the plane to Australia (or wherever)? if they fly to someplace on a commercial flight, and that nation denies them entry, that doesn't solve the problem. Now you have a whole planeload of potentially infected passengers to deal with.

 

I'm not a real big international flier, but I can't imagine every nation has people in every other nation's airports screening passengers before they are allowed to even board a flight to that country. I assume for most nations it is done when you arrive, no? (I admit I could be totally wrong on this)

Have you ever wondered about all the clicking that goes on when you go to the airline counter? It’s the airlines responsibility to ensure as much as possible that the traveller will be allowed to enter the country. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Pushka

[Aus Traveller]

9 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

Would there be some kind of screening before they were allowed on the plane to Australia (or wherever)? if they fly to someplace on a commercial flight, and that nation denies them entry, that doesn't solve the problem. Now you have a whole planeload of potentially infected passengers to deal with.

 

I'm not a real big international flier, but I can't imagine every nation has people in every other nation's airports screening passengers before they are allowed to even board a flight to that country. I assume for most nations it is done when you arrive, no? (I admit I could be totally wrong on this)

You mentioned Australia. When the earlier two flights of people evacuated from Wuhan brought Australians back to the country, they did not enter commercial airports. Firstly, the plane was an older one that I believe was no longer in service. It was fitted with much improved air filtration equipment and a system that brought much more outside air into the plane. The second flight went to Darwin airport where the passengers disembarked in the military part of the airfield and were then transported by bus to a former mining camp at Howard. This facility can accommodate (from memory) 3,500 people. It has separate accommodation units (rather utilitarian, not of hotel standard), and facilities such as a swimming pool.

 

The people on the first Wuhan evacuation flight were taken to Learmonth RAAF base, then on smaller planes to Christmas Island. These people have completed their 14 days of quarantine with no reports of positive tests. Yesterday they were flown to Western Australia from where QANTAS flew them free of charge to their closest home airport.

[matadams4u]

1 hour ago, BSocial said:

But what’s to stop any of the remaining Americans on the ship, from flying to Australia, for example, to wait out the US 14 day ban?  
 

 Australia can flag their own passports from entry - but they won’t have the details of the American passports, right?  This seems like a flaw

 

 Same example for US ban.  They are not banning the UK or Australia passengers on board, for 14 days after release, correct.?

First, an American would need to register for entry into Australia. Second, I believe the way the passport system works implemented after 9/11 is that a lot of information is available - basically every time the passport was scanned and other information as well. It seems that a lot of information is processed when you go through biometric screening entering the US, Canada and EU and a lot of information appears to be shared.  It would be interesting to see an article on it - there have been past posts on how people have unexpectedly been denied entry into Australia or Canada for past issues such as DUIs or other things.

[em-sk]

18 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

Would there be some kind of screening before they were allowed on the plane to Australia (or wherever)? if they fly to someplace on a commercial flight, and that nation denies them entry, that doesn't solve the problem. Now you have a whole planeload of potentially infected passengers to deal with.

 

I'm not a real big international flier, but I can't imagine every nation has people in every other nation's airports screening passengers before they are allowed to even board a flight to that country. I assume for most nations it is done when you arrive, no? (I admit I could be totally wrong on this)

 

When you check in you have to provide the airline your passport information, where you will be staying etc.  That is compared against do-not-fly lists of various types and usually transmitted to boarder control prior to the aircraft leaving.   They sometimes catch someone before they depart and other times they will deal with it on entry.  

 

Some countries require visas or data to be entered into a portal before you depart.  

 

The issue is if the countries share data.  The US knows about the US citizens on the ship and Canada knows about the Canadians.  They can share that data with each other, but who knows if they actually are. 

 

 

 

 

[Pushka]

Just now, em-sk said:

 

When you check in you have to provide the airline your passport information, where you will be staying etc.  That is compared against do-not-fly lists of various types and usually transmitted to boarder control prior to the aircraft leaving.   They sometimes catch someone before they depart and other times they will deal with it on entry.  

 

Some countries require visas or data to be entered into a portal before you depart.  

 

The issue is if the countries share data.  The US knows about the US citizens on the ship and Canada knows about the Canadians.  They can share that data with each other, but who knows if they actually are. 

 

 

 

 

The data is shared in ways we don’t even know about. 

[K.T.B.]

6 hours ago, Maverick61 said:

 

How do you even know when Japan started contacting other governments  or agencies for assistance / guidance?

 

Do you know the logistics involved in what you are suggesting dealing with 4000 people?

 

As to test kits, you do realize there is a shortage of them.  You don't just use them on people willy nilly.  Nor would it have made sense to test everyone early on given the incubation period of the virus.

 

 

How do I know when they started contacting other countries?  It's been in the news recently.  It's when they finally allowed them to start removing passengers.  Otherwise, it was on Japan.

 

Yes, I know the logistics.  Do you know how many US military bases there are in Japan that could easily handle 4,000 people for isolation?  The answer is 23.  Those 23 bases have well over 50,000 military personnel in total, not including dependents and civilian employees.  Of those 23 bases, 4 or 5 (I forget the exact number) are within an hour or two of where Diamond is docked.  The non-Japanese passengers could have been sent to any base.  And, yes, the military definitely have plans in place just in case they'd need to do such a thing. Again, if had Japan only requested help in handling this, there's a very good possibility of far fewer passengers getting sick. 

 

As for test kits, and to keep beating this horse, if only Japan asked for help.  Yes, they're in short supply in Japan, but that's not the case worldwide.

 

I get the reason for the quarantine, I do not get Japan's reasoning to keep everyone (i.e. the US or British or another country's medical personnel, health organizations, etc.) but them away from the ship for as long as they did.  By the time they did get help from WHO (as an example) it was a week into the quarantine.  And here we are nearly 3 weeks into it when some passengers are finally being allowed to disembark to go back to their country of origin.

 

Japan royally mucked this up and people are paying the price of it.  I just hope the people who go sick because of the quarantine, people like Dave Abel and his wife, make a full recovery and no one dies.

[em-sk]

10 minutes ago, Pushka said:

The data is shared in ways we don’t even know about. 

 

Agreed...  

 

Two examples.....

For the passengers off the Westerdam - Canadian boarder control have been meeting these passangers on the jet bridge as the aircraft arrives.  

 

There is an executive for a Chinese multi-national corporation waiting extradition to the US.  She was stopped by Canadian authorities in Vancouver while making a connection going from China to Mexico at the request of the US.   

 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by em-sk

[matadams4u]

2 hours ago, icat2000 said:

All about control with the Chinese. If they let in help they lose control of the narrative. I suspect its a lot worse than what the Chinese are telling anyone. 

Actually, the Chinese agreed to allow the US participate as a part of the WHO.  I am not certain of the current status of US membership in the WHO - 2-3 years back the US was downgraded from a voting member to an observing member due to the failure to pay dues.  This may have been rectified.  Under the rules, if you don’t pay your dues you just don’t have the same access as others.  Unfortunately, for a variety of reasons (there are more than one) the US has had a habit over a long period of time of jeopardizing it’s ability to participate in international working groups for one reason or another.  Under international protocols - WHO is the point group, those that aren’t in compliance with WHO rules just don’t get to participate.  This provides some background on the reason there might be some friction and this is just one area of many.  It is the right of the US to not meet its obligations with international agencies, but there shouldn’t be any complaint when excluded from the party.

[bluesea321]

Hard to believe that Japan is letting passengers off the ship without an effective on-shore quarantine. I hope they don't end up with a large increase of infections.

 

Statement from the CDC on 2/18:

 

"CDC believes the rate of new infections on board, especially among those without symptoms, represents an ongoing risk. Because of their high-risk exposure, there may be additional confirmed cases of COVID-19 among the remaining passengers on board the Diamond Princess."

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0218-update-diamond-princess.html

[Farts]

13 hours ago, DesertSailors said:

Interesting video just posted.  My thoughts continue to be with all who were on the ship and continue to be there.
 

 

From speaking to others who have worked as cruise ship docs or watching cruise ship doc videos online, I have heard that the hierarchy is strictly  enforced while on ship. Officers power tripping is never a good to keep outbreaks controlled. Not saying that is what happened here. Just say that anyone thinking that they know better than experts...it just a recipe for disaster.

[maryann2]

Another You tube update from David Able. He is still on the ship.

 

(VLOG #61) 19th February at 1:15pm - YouTube

 

[sprinkles]

14 minutes ago, maryann2 said:

Another You tube update from David Able. He is still on the ship.

 

(VLOG #61) 19th February at 1:15pm - YouTube

 

Thank you for posting this, I had given up looking.  My heart absolutely breaks for them (For ALL of them).  But I have been following them all along.  I had pretty much figured their silence was “adjusting” to their news.  The thought of being in their shoes makes me cry.  
 

 

[dog]

42 minutes ago, maryann2 said:

Another You tube update from David Able. He is still on the ship.

 

(VLOG #61) 19th February at 1:15pm - YouTube

 

Thanks for sharing link. Most up to date---you can hear them calling those with negative results to disembark.

He seems okay and has clarified that he and Sally tested positive, still waiting to be transferred to a hostel until a hospital bed is available.

So sad.

 

from twitter:

Matthew Smith, on the otherhand, as of 3 hours ago, has not got his test results back yet.

Yardley Wong & quarantinedondiamondprincess have disembarked just now.

Edited February 19, 2020 by dog

[Farts]

7 hours ago, YlangYlangF9PB3E said:

Let’s not forget passing the virus through the waste lines. Ever have a problem with your toilet and a crew member magically fixes it without coming into your room? There is a panel to fix the toilet in the hallway. Ever flush your toilet and smell poop when you haven’t pooped? Those waste lines are intermingled. It has also been determined that this virus can spread through not just fecal matter but also passed gas (farts)! They evacuated an entire apartment building during the SARS outbreak because of this same problem of sewage pipes carrying the virus and infecting neighbors.

HAHAHAHA! 😄😄😄 😄😄😄 😄😄😄 😄😄😄 😄😄😄 😄😄😄 😄😄😄 😄😄😄

[BRANDEE]

29 minutes ago, maryann2 said:

Another You tube update from David Able. He is still on the ship.

 

(VLOG #61) 19th February at 1:15pm - YouTube

 

 

So there are currently infected passengers still on the Diamond at the same time as other passengers are being "let go" to go home in Japan or to travel around Japan.  Wow..  I read that their new "focus has shift from border control to preventing the spread in local communities".   Doesn't letting passengers not do an additional 14 day  quarantine counter this new focus? No other country is just allowing passengers to immediately return home to everyday life.  I understand that they probably have no place to put them, but dropping them at a train station???  So just let the chips fall where they may!  Pretty scary!!

[slidebite]

Well, this all sounds very comforting.

[maryann2]

17 minutes ago, sprinkles said:

Thank you for posting this, I had given up looking.  My heart absolutely breaks for them (For ALL of them).  But I have been following them all along.  I had pretty much figured their silence was “adjusting” to their news.  The thought of being in their shoes makes me cry.  
 

 

 

Just now, dog said:

Thanks for sharing link. Most up to date---you can hear them calling those with negative results to disembark.

He seems okay and has clarified that he and Sally tested positive, still waiting to be transferred to a hostel until a hospital bed is available.

So sad.

 

from twitter:

Matthew Smith, on the otherhand, as of 3 hours ago, has not got his test results back yet.

Yardley Wong & quarantinedondiamondprincess have disembarked just now.

It is so sad to watch him being so despondent now.  Also hearing luggage tag numbers to disembark etc.

 

I am hoping that they are keeping him on the ship for now so that he can go back to the UK with the others.

[ceilidh1]

Where are the passengers who are disembarking now going? I don't believe any other countries actually have planes on the ground yet, do they? So, assuming that people for Australia, Canada, UK, Hong Kong (and maybe other countries) can't return home on their own for 14 days...where are they going? Wouldn't they have just stayed on the ship until their countries came to get them? I'm thinking, in particular, of Yardley Wong. She is off the ship with hubby and son - they are meant to be going home to quarantine in Hong Kong. Anyone know or have heard the process for this?

[Pushka]

Just now, ceilidh1 said:

Where are the passengers who are disembarking now going? I don't believe any other countries actually have planes on the ground yet, do they? So, assuming that people for Australia, Canada, UK, Hong Kong (and maybe other countries) can't return home on their own for 14 days...where are they going? Wouldn't they have just stayed on the ship until their countries came to get them? I'm thinking, in particular, of Yardley Wong. She is off the ship with hubby and son - they are meant to be going home to quarantine in Hong Kong. Anyone know or have heard the process for this?

I imagine they are just finding accommodation in Tokyo and sorting out flights home. They may not be aware of the restrictions? Seems crazy to me. 

[JennAngel9]

I'm certain I read somewhere that Hong Kong is picking up its residents as well as potentially a few other small groups today, to be brought back for quarantine.  Is she not going with that group?

[ceilidh1]

1 minute ago, JennAngel9 said:

I'm certain I read somewhere that Hong Kong is picking up its residents as well as potentially a few other small groups today, to be brought back for quarantine.  Is she not going with that group?

Hmmm...maybe. I know she is off the ship. She posted live video on Twitter.