Carnival ship maintenance

[Joebucks]

17 minutes ago, BNBR said:

 

The same reason people paint and maintain their homes.  It's not out of line to expect things to look nice and well maintained.  Optics does matter and most people understand that.

 

I get it. If I had to choose between rust and no rust, I'd choose the no rust. People want to take their brag photos of the ship, and are embarrassed too if it's rusty.

 

Still, I don't think many of us can face palm enough as soon as we hear someone mention or start a review with "there's rust everywhere". That is usually not the sign of someone bringing a positive attitude.

[BNBR]

Just now, Joebucks said:

 

I get it. If I had to choose between rust and no rust, I'd choose the no rust. People want to take their brag photos of the ship, and are embarrassed too if it's rusty.

 

Still, I don't think many of us can face palm enough as soon as we hear someone mention or start a review with "there's rust everywhere". That is usually not the sign of someone bringing a positive attitude.

 

But that's reality.  There IS rust everywhere and if that's how someone starts a review, it should be more than obvious that it's a glaring issue.  

 

It wouldn't be such an issue if the rust was just the industry norm.  But it's not.  There is a very noticeable difference in rust and appearance between Carnival and their competitors.

[jimbo5544]

8 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

I think we mostly agree Carnivals product is good and we pay good money for it. It’s understandable when you Pay good money  For a product you want to see it maintained.  Yes we are going on a ship that will have plenty to do, but it shouldn’t look run down. Carnival should have a standard that takes this into account  and they should know what the ship looks like. If I went to a 5 start resort and saw broken stairs leading up to it or overgrown bushes blocking the doors - I would wonder what was inside. 
I think this is a long time coming and it should have been felt with earlier but I am happy they are addressing it. 
 

IF we take Heald at his word, it would take time and effort, a lot of both 

[jimbo5544]

4 minutes ago, BNBR said:

 

But that's reality.  There IS rust everywhere and if that's how someone starts a review, it should be more than obvious that it's a glaring issue.  

 

It wouldn't be such an issue if the rust was just the industry norm.  But it's not.  There is a very noticeable difference in rust and appearance between Carnival and their competitors.

There have as many thread references on Royal ships as well.  

[BNBR]

2 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

There have as many thread references on Royal ships as well.  

 

Not that I've noticed.  Something to consider, Magic is several years newer than Oasis and Allure.  You couldn't honestly tell me the  exterior appearance of Magic is even in the same league.  I think that's what I found a bit surprising, as I booked Magic because it was a relatively newer ship, yet the exterior appearance was rather dismal.  I think most people recognize that Carnival lacks in exterior appearance and optics.

[ummgood]

I've never been on Carnival but I have cruised 3 times.

The first 2 cruises were on Disney.  The issue is their ships are IMMACULATE.  I literally saw them painting and restoring every port day on every cruise.  We always joked that the paint must be a foot thick on the Disney ships.  Then we went on RCCL Navigator of the Seas before it went in for dry dock.  The maintenance wasn't up to snuff either but I don't remember noticing much rust.  Just random garbage from the previous cruise when we boarded, frayed carpet, and the railings looked really worn.  The overall experience was good but it definitely was a difference between Disney and RCCL.  But then again I know that Disney is probably the best at maintaining their property and boats but if you really look you can find issues even at Disney.

The issue is people relate rust to poor maintenance.  Then you wonder what else is not being maintained.  Are the engines being maintained?  You are on a big vessel out in the middle of the ocean.  Carnival and other cruise lines have had their fair share of issues that are probably unrelated to maintenance, like the Carnival Liberty issues, but people do relate rust to poor maintenance.  Not only is it bad optics but it will prevent some cruisers from cruising on them.  I am one of those cruisers.  After the Liberty issue and seeing their ships in port I really couldn't get myself to book a Carnival cruise.  It might be shallow but when in port next to Carnival it is obvious their ships look more run down.  I don't know why that is but it is what I noticed.

With all that said the new Vista class with the Havana Cabana got me to change my mind.  We wanted a cruise out of Texas and RCCL really wasn't our cup of tea.  We are hoping the more fun vibe of  Carnival might want to make us return.  I hope the Vista isn't too torn up or it might discourage my wife.

[ObstructedView2]

What!??!! Carnival can only perform spot repairs & urgent touch-ups and the rest of the painting has to wait until a ship is in dry dock??? Are you kidding me!

 

🤔🤔Hmmmmmm🤔🤔

 

 

 

 

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, ObstructedView2 said:

What!??!! Carnival can only perform spot repairs & urgent touch-ups and the rest of the painting has to wait until a ship is in dry dock??? Are you kidding me!

While again, most of what he says is not completely accurate, this is a viable concern.  You cannot paint over rust, you must remove the rust and loose paint before doing anything.  Many ports have restrictions about particulate matter being generated by scraping, grinding, or other means of mechanical cleaning of surfaces to prepare for paint.  Also, many ports have restrictions on using various paints in ports.  Most commercial ships will do their spot painting at sea.  Many commercial shipping companies will forego crew painting completely, and rely on full coating in shipyard, since they feel that the surface preparation and environmental conditions make the touch up painting a waste of money.  Cruise ships overpaint simply for appearance's sake, not necessarily for fabric (steel) maintenance reasons.  Further, the types of marine coatings used generally require some form of mechanical means to remove the oxidized outer layer of paint before a new layer can adhere, so large areas are restricted to drydock periods where sand blasting equipment outfitted with vacuum systems can be used to remove a layer of paint, and collect not only the blasting media but the paint chips as well for hazmat disposal.

 

When you see the crew with long poled rollers covering large areas of the ship's side on a cruise ship, know that that is a total waste of money from a maintenance perspective, and is only a good idea from a marketing perspective.

[jimbo5544]

49 minutes ago, ummgood said:

I've never been on Carnival but I have cruised 3 times.

The first 2 cruises were on Disney.  The issue is their ships are IMMACULATE.  I literally saw them painting and restoring every port day on every cruise.  We always joked that the paint must be a foot thick on the Disney ships.  Then we went on RCCL Navigator of the Seas before it went in for dry dock.  The maintenance wasn't up to snuff either but I don't remember noticing much rust.  Just random garbage from the previous cruise when we boarded, frayed carpet, and the railings looked really worn.  The overall experience was good but it definitely was a difference between Disney and RCCL.  But then again I know that Disney is probably the best at maintaining their property and boats but if you really look you can find issues even at Disney.

The issue is people relate rust to poor maintenance.  Then you wonder what else is not being maintained.  Are the engines being maintained?  You are on a big vessel out in the middle of the ocean.  Carnival and other cruise lines have had their fair share of issues that are probably unrelated to maintenance, like the Carnival Liberty issues, but people do relate rust to poor maintenance.  Not only is it bad optics but it will prevent some cruisers from cruising on them.  I am one of those cruisers.  After the Liberty issue and seeing their ships in port I really couldn't get myself to book a Carnival cruise.  It might be shallow but when in port next to Carnival it is obvious their ships look more run down.  I don't know why that is but it is what I noticed.

With all that said the new Vista class with the Havana Cabana got me to change my mind.  We wanted a cruise out of Texas and RCCL really wasn't our cup of tea.  We are hoping the more fun vibe of  Carnival might want to make us return.  I hope the Vista isn't too torn up or it might discourage my wife.

Havana area is a home run.  In reference to your Disney comment, I will say they are the only cruise line I have seen virtually washing the entire ship in port.  Another consideration is what color are Disney ships?

[jimbo5544]

57 minutes ago, BNBR said:

 

Not that I've noticed.  Something to consider, Magic is several years newer than Oasis and Allure.  You couldn't honestly tell me the  exterior appearance of Magic is even in the same league.  I think that's what I found a bit surprising, as I booked Magic because it was a relatively newer ship, yet the exterior appearance was rather dismal.  I think most people recognize that Carnival lacks in exterior appearance and optics.

Well we know how you feel now,😎, to be honest I don’t often compare ships in port unless I have to walk down between them.  I have not seen Oasis up close in a Long time.  I will make a point at looking at all on our next cruise.  My reference on the Royal ships was a post (with pics) on a similar thread a month is so back.  

Edited February 12, 2020 by jimbo5544

[ummgood]

6 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Havana area is a home run.  In reference to your Disney comment, I will say they are the only cruise line I have seen virtually washing the entire ship in port.  Another consideration is what color are Disney ships?

 

You are right that the hull is black with yellow stripes (actually red below sea level too).  The entire top portion of the ship is white just like any other cruiseline.  Walking around the walking path on the promenade you could tell how well maintained it was and the ship is white from that level up.  Also we were on the Wonder before it's dry dock upgrade and it was a pretty old ship and it never looked it.  The Navigator of the Seas is newer and it looked older to us (not to the extent we would never sail on it again).  We just decided that it was too 'slow and quiet' for our taste.

With that said in no way do I expect any ship to come up to the maintenance quality of Disney.  I was a big Disney fan long before sailing on them and even in their parks they are constantly painting and maintaining if you pay attention.  The cleaning is over the top.

My post mainly was to point out that not keeping the state of the ships up really could hurt their business to some extent.  Until the Havana Cabana's came out it was really difficult to convince my wife to try a Carnival ship.  Add onto that when we were in port on our previous cruises it was obvious that the Carnival ships in port were more run down looking than the other ships (white or not).

Edited February 12, 2020 by ummgood

[jimbo5544]

1 minute ago, ummgood said:

 

You are right that the hull is black with yellow stripes (actually red below sea level too).  The entire top portion of the ship is white just like any other cruiseline.  Walking around the walking path on the promenade you could tell how well maintained it was and the ship is white from that level up.

With that said in no way do I expect any ship to come up to the maintenance quality of Disney.  I was a big Disney fan long before sailing on them and even in their parks they are constantly painting and maintaining if you pay attention.  The cleaning is over the top.

My post mainly was to point out that not keeping the state of the ships up really could hurt their business to some extent.  Until the Havana Cabana's came out it was really difficult to convince my wife to try a Carnival ship.  Add onto that when we were in port on our previous cruises it was obvious that the Carnival ships in port were more run down looking than the other ships (white or not).

I won’t hold your being a Disney fan against you....😉.   Spending 4 days in Bay Lake Villas with my daughter and her family starting tomorrow.  I am Disneyed out though.  Never sailed Disney, have no issue with the upkeep comments on their ships, but when we toured Disney Magic I have to say for the cost I was underwhelmed with the product, but that is just me.

[glrounds]

In view of the topic of this thread I gladly report that after having just got off the PANORAMA a couple weeks ago, I did not spot one instance of rust either inside or outside this ship.🤣

 

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, glrounds said:

In view of the topic of this thread I gladly report that after having just got off the PANORAMA a couple weeks ago, I did not spot one instance of rust either inside or outside this ship.🤣

 

Good to hear, thanks, but she is almost 4 months old now, must be some somewhere.  

Edited February 12, 2020 by jimbo5544

[Thorncroft]

Personally, I think that rust on black or dark colors looks worse than rust on white. The reddish brown streaks on white are classic, but on black and dark blue especially, the streaks take on an oily, iridescent, rainbow look that is just hideous, to me. 

[bitemyfly]

Visible rust on hulls , railings and bulkheads as referenced in pictures is not  only bad optics , it’s just plain old bad maintenance .

weather it’s a product /selection , the product performance or the person applying it .. all of those are all under ccl control.

and it’s a failed control .  If area that areas within the public’s eye sight are poorly maintained and look awful , I wonder about parts not within our eyesight looks like?

[xDisconnections]

13 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

For them to bring it up attests to the issue.  We will see how they address it 

I thought it was brought up and addressed because of the Carnival Dream picture that was shared several times to Carnival and Heald over the past few days. I even saw a great edit of it where someone put it in a picture frame with an artist painting the ship. 

[matymil]

On the list of things I worry about, rust on the outside of the ship is somewhere between no tablecloths in the MDR and switching from Coke to Pepsi...aka not a big a deal. If this effects you a great deal maybe switch to a higher priced cruise line? I doubt the Virgin ships have rust. 🤷‍♂️

[Joebucks]

7 hours ago, matymil said:

On the list of things I worry about, rust on the outside of the ship is somewhere between no tablecloths in the MDR and switching from Coke to Pepsi...aka not a big a deal. If this effects you a great deal maybe switch to a higher priced cruise line? I doubt the Virgin ships have rust. 🤷‍♂️

 

Hey now, I found this spot of rust on my balcony. Never sailing them again!

[5000]

Jan 5 Pride sailing    Balcony rust   There were a couple diamonds down the hall from us on this 14 day cruise. I know they were diamonds because  isat next to them during muster drill.  It took all of 10 seconds of conversation before i was told it was his 74th cruise and her 78th cruise. 🙄  He was saying this was the WORST muster drill he has ever been through. ( It was inside in the dining room! )  So we were out on our aft  balcony, sailing down the Chesapeake,and I head him ripping into what ever poor sole got sent to his cabin... going on and on about the rust, and he was going to call Miami and raise hell. WAY over the top.  This went on for about 30 minutes at a pretty good volume.      Well the squeaky wheel got the grease.  The next day, and the following 3 sea days there was at least 2 - 3  hours of scrapping,  grinding, primer and then  the blue paint fumes coming from his balcony.   

I am thinking he didn't realize what he was getting himself into since he never seemed to be able to use the balcony.    It really does require all those step to get the paint patched correctly!   Oh,  then at about day eight, I heard him out there giving someone else hell about how dirty the glass was on the balcony.  🤷‍♂️

[Stick93]

57 minutes ago, 5000 said:

Jan 5 Pride sailing    Balcony rust   There were a couple diamonds down the hall from us on this 14 day cruise. I know they were diamonds because  isat next to them during muster drill.  It took all of 10 seconds of conversation before i was told it was his 74th cruise and her 78th cruise. 🙄  He was saying this was the WORST muster drill he has ever been through. ( It was inside in the dining room! )  So we were out on our aft  balcony, sailing down the Chesapeake,and I head him ripping into what ever poor sole got sent to his cabin... going on and on about the rust, and he was going to call Miami and raise hell. WAY over the top.  This went on for about 30 minutes at a pretty good volume.      Well the squeaky wheel got the grease.  The next day, and the following 3 sea days there was at least 2 - 3  hours of scrapping,  grinding, primer and then  the blue paint fumes coming from his balcony.   

I am thinking he didn't realize what he was getting himself into since he never seemed to be able to use the balcony.    It really does require all those step to get the paint patched correctly!   Oh,  then at about day eight, I heard him out there giving someone else hell about how dirty the glass was on the balcony.  🤷‍♂️

Best part of this is how you tell us he was diamond - 

I don’t agree with his actions but I agree with his message. 

[jimbo5544]

45 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

Best part of this is how you tell us he was diamond - 

I don’t agree with his actions but I agree with his message. 

I have never gotten any preferential treatment for being Diamond other than recognition, nor should I have.

Edited February 14, 2020 by jimbo5544

[Stick93]

My cruise in the Horizon a couple that was elderly and diamond had an issue in their room. They complained in a nicer way.  After the diamond meeting they had their room changed to Havana cabin. Clearly it meant enough to carnival to make them happy. I was happy for them and happy to see that it CAN make a difference.  

[cjknox]

What an entertaining thread.

 

Taking a step back for a moment, I've never seen Carnival ships as rusty as they've been recently which indicates to me that there is an underlying issue. However, unlike some I do not believe it's due to poor maintenance.

 

For example, the "new" Carnival Sunrise which just left dry dock less than 1 year ago already has extensive rust, specifically concentrated along the waterline and lower hull sections. Even a few months after in mid-2019 I noticed she had several rust spots.

 

Several Carnival ships exhibit this exact rust pattern (including smaller spots on balconies) which is also suspect. Even the hulls seem to be "yellowing" where there are not clear indications of rust, further indicating a paint coating corruption issue.

 

Paint vendors often tout "new formulas", which can be easily created; it seems Carnival tried one and it's causing this. 

 

Unfortunately, as others have correctly stated, due to regulations and the multi-step removal process rectifying this is not simple which is only compounding the issue. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by cjknox

[jimbo5544]

5 hours ago, cjknox said:

What an entertaining thread.

 

Taking a step back for a moment, I've never seen Carnival ships as rusty as they've been recently which indicates to me that there is an underlying issue. However, unlike some I do not believe it's due to poor maintenance.

 

For example, the "new" Carnival Sunrise which just left dry dock less than 1 year ago already has extensive rust, specifically concentrated along the waterline and lower hull sections. Even a few months after in mid-2019 I noticed she had several rust spots.

 

Several Carnival ships exhibit this exact rust pattern (including smaller spots on balconies) which is also suspect. Even the hulls seem to be "yellowing" where there are not clear indications of rust, further indicating a paint coating corruption issue.

 

Paint vendors often tout "new formulas", which can be easily created; it seems Carnival tried one and it's causing this. 

 

Unfortunately, as others have correctly stated, due to regulations and the multi-step removal process rectifying this is not simple which is only compounding the issue. 

 

 

 

 

 

Good point on the Sunrise, and welcome baccck, have not seen you posting here in a LONG time.