Oceana bad luck...

[Harry Peterson]

24 minutes ago, Satureyes said:

I read that but was thinking they can say they offered a different port (Rotterdam) and a day at sea etc. 
 

Do we need to start the process on the boat or is this a travel insurance job?

Not a travel insurance job - entirely down to P&O.  Start the process on the ship, make the claim in writing, get a written acknowledgement, and pursue it when you return home.  P&O will probably refuse initially, but you need to maintain the claim until they back down.  There's a possibility they may offer to settle with a non-disclosure agreement, meaning you cannot discuss or disclose the settlement with anyone else.

[Satureyes]

1 minute ago, Harry Peterson said:

Not a travel insurance job - entirely down to P&O.  Start the process on the ship, make the claim in writing, get a written acknowledgement, and pursue it when you return home.  P&O will probably refuse initially, but you need to maintain the claim until they back down.  There's a possibility they may offer to settle with a non-disclosure agreement, meaning you cannot discuss or disclose the settlement with anyone else.

thank you - most helpful. 

So we need to inform them at the desk tonight we are not happy and would like to register this complaint? Is there a template that others have used?

 

do we need to actually put it in writing on the ship (handwritten) and then pursue later via emails etc ?

 

 

[Host Sharon]

On 2/22/2020 at 9:12 AM, Stu UK said:

The poor pilot we embarked at Rotterdam now has to stay with us till Southampton as seas too rough to disembark him. 

Happened on an Artemis cruise I was on in 2007. Hamburg pilot had to stay on board until Oslo. Can't believe he was too upset! 

[annieuk]

Maybe it's just me but I don't think, in all honesty, I could claim from P&O if the changed itinerary was due to bad weather over which they had no control - even if according to T&Cs or the law, I was entitled to.  I don't see why P&O should suffer because there was nothing they could do about it.  I suppose they could have seen the weather forecast in advance and done what - cancelled the cruise and everyone could have had their money back?   I understand if people are entitled legally to claim some sort of compensation there is no reason why they shouldn't do so.  I'm just saying I wouldn't if it was solely due to the weather.

[Harry Peterson]

Just now, annieuk said:

Maybe it's just me but I don't think, in all honesty, I could claim from P&O if the changed itinerary was due to bad weather over which they had no control - even if according to T&Cs or the law, I was entitled to.  I don't see why P&O should suffer because there was nothing they could do about it.  I suppose they could have seen the weather forecast in advance and done what - cancelled the cruise and everyone could have had their money back?   I understand if people are entitled legally to claim some sort of compensation there is no reason why they shouldn't do so.  I'm just saying I wouldn't if it was solely due to the weather.

That's a very noble approach, Annie.  And I'd be inclined to agree if P&O adopted the same noble approach when customers have to cancel due to circumstances beyond their control.
 

It cuts both ways, really, doesn't it? 

[Satureyes]

1 minute ago, Harry Peterson said:

That's a very noble approach, Annie.  And I'd be inclined to agree if P&O adopted the same noble approach when customers have to cancel due to circumstances beyond their control.
 

It cuts both ways, really, doesn't it? 

 

I wish i felt as much loyalty for the brand as you to Annie - With the amount of money we give them i find it hard to have a sympathetic approach. 
I feel they could have found a port. I think they took the easy route out and just had us floating around the Solent for a day and then we docked at 11:45 last night.. they were pretty good at disembarkation!

[AndyMichelle]

On 2/22/2020 at 9:12 AM, Stu UK said:

The poor pilot we embarked at Rotterdam now has to stay with us till Southampton as seas too rough to disembark him. 

I heard the pilot was last seen on the karaoke singing 'Airport' 😊

 

Lets see if anybody understands the 1970s pop hit reference... 

Andy 

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

6 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

That's a very noble approach, Annie.  And I'd be inclined to agree if P&O adopted the same noble approach when customers have to cancel due to circumstances beyond their control.
 

It cuts both ways, really, doesn't it? 

I agree with you totally on this. Circumstances only seems to work one way. If circumstance outside my control mean I cannot pay for a significant part for my cruise (which is what I agreed to) then I do not get to go on the cruise.  Also they get to keep the deposit. They should play by the same rules. If they do not deliver a significant part of the  the cruise (Which is what they agreed to) then they should not keep all of my money. This is not compensation it is a partial refund. 
 

There was a time when Southampton cruise terminal hardly saw a ship in January, February or March.  Everything was in the Caribbean or on Worlds. Cruise companies realised it was not a good idea to cruise out of the UK in the winter.  P&O have Now decided they can make money cruising form the UK in the winter.  You can be sure they a charging the maximum fares they think they can from loyal passengers for these cruises. With this maximised profit comes a financial risk. If they do not provide significantly what is advertised then appropriate refund should be paid.  

 

I have never seen a cruise advertisement that states this is the itinerary we hope to cruise but it is Winter so we might go somewhere or nowhere else. It probably would not sell.
 

On obvious option would be to name all winter cruises out of Southampton as Mystery Cruises. Just a thought.  There would be no grounds for complaint then about missed ports. 
 

Best wishes, Stephen. 
 

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by stephen@stoneyard.co.uk

[molecrochip]

59 minutes ago, stephen@stoneyard.co.uk said:

There was a time when Southampton cruise terminal hardly saw a ship in January, February or March.  Everything was in the Caribbean or on Worlds. Cruise companies realised it was not a good idea to cruise out of the UK in the winter.  P&O have Now decided they can make money cruising form the UK in the winter.  You can be sure they a charging the maximum fares they think they can from loyal passengers for these cruises.

It’s worth noting that the majority of cruises from Southampton this year in these months are on Oceana. Oceana was never due to sail these itineraries until her Middle East season was pulled late last summer. These new itineraries were not sold at top dollar.

[Satureyes]

1 minute ago, molecrochip said:

It’s worth noting that the majority of cruises from Southampton this year in these months are on Oceana. Oceana was never due to sail these itineraries until her Middle East season was pulled late last summer. These new itineraries were not sold at top dollar.

Does it matter what they were sold at?
They weren't sold as 'you get what you're given'  - or told we could expect a drop in service because we're not paying as much as we would if we were on the ship in the summer. 

They offer the service. If they can't fulfil it, then they should at least acknowledge it. 

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

46 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

It’s worth noting that the majority of cruises from Southampton this year in these months are on Oceana. Oceana was never due to sail these itineraries until her Middle East season was pulled late last summer. These new itineraries were not sold at top dollar.

You may be right about Oceana being most regular over these months. In the remains of these moths we have more of Aurora and also couple of Ventura.
 

Within the Carnival group there is most visits by Aida ships and one Queen Victoria.  Outside Carnival then Fred and Saga are regulars. Winter UK cruising has grown more than I thought. They are all taking a risk with passenger satisfaction and a financial cost. I am sure safety wise they are all fine. 

My rule use to be never before May. Bad weather and Norovirus season I thought. I have broken it many times and Norovirus seems year round. 

 

Best wishes, Stephen 

Edited February 23, 2020 by stephen@stoneyard.co.uk

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

44 minutes ago, Satureyes said:

Does it matter what they were sold at?
They weren't sold as 'you get what you're given'  - or told we could expect a drop in service because we're not paying as much as we would if we were on the ship in the summer. 

They offer the service. If they can't fulfil it, then they should at least acknowledge it. 

I agree with you.  More than acknowledge it I would say. 

[Two 2 Tango]

On 2/21/2020 at 9:13 PM, Harry Peterson said:

Anybody not being offered a partial refund might like to check out some of the comments relating to ongoing cruises towards the end of this thread:

 

 

 

Thanks for the information, we were on this cruise. Apart from the late start, changing Amsterdam for Rotterdam , missing Zeebruge in some of the calmest sees we have sailed in and having to change cabin because of the noise from the disco until past 3am  not to mention the toilet in constant siphoning mode until 1 am after being reported 3 times since it started in the afternoon. I would think that that these things may just creep into the significant bracket (just get my tongue out of my cheek). We have made a complaint but may have to wait 28 days for a reply. This is also the first time we have not had an email waiting to give feedback on the cruise, I wonder why. 

[Satureyes]

3 minutes ago, Two 2 Tango said:

 

Thanks for the information, we were on this cruise. Apart from the late start, changing Amsterdam for Rotterdam , missing Zeebruge in some of the calmest sees we have sailed in and having to change cabin because of the noise from the disco until past 3am  not to mention the toilet in constant siphoning mode until 1 am after being reported 3 times since it started in the afternoon. I would think that that these things may just creep into the significant bracket (just get my tongue out of my cheek). We have made a complaint but may have to wait 28 days for a reply. This is also the first time we have not had an email waiting to give feedback on the cruise, I wonder why. 


 

Actually I got the questionnaire - I ignored it and they sent it again!

I've sent the email - and they sent the 'within 28 days' but then I got another mail saying it's been passed onto guest relations. 

I dont think it's acceptable to say 'we didn't pay much so we should accept what it was'. I didn't book the cruise to 'perhaps' or 'maybe' have things. If there is a drop in standard in a winter cruise they should say - 'you may not go anywhere and may be late all the time, and you can't expect what others who pay twice as much get'

I understand the pilots not being available etc - but I am also pretty sure that the port knew we were coming many weeks ago, and I think it shows how little say or power P&O carry that they can't 'reserve' a pilot (or get us into another port). 

What they're actually doing is pulling the rug from under our feet, milking a lucrative school holiday market and going with the flow because customers are happy to accept the 'well it didn't cost much' trade off. 

[Two 2 Tango]

3 minutes ago, Satureyes said:

Actually I got the questionnaire - I ignored it and they sent it again!

I've sent the email - and they sent the 'within 28 days' but then I got another mail saying it's been passed onto guest relations. 

I dont think it's acceptable to say 'we didn't pay much so we should accept what it was'. I didn't book the cruise to 'perhaps' or 'maybe' have things. If there is a drop in standard in a winter cruise they should say - 'you may not go anywhere and may be late all the time, and you can't expect what others who pay twice as much get'

I understand the pilots not being available etc - but I am also pretty sure that the port knew we were coming many weeks ago, and I think it shows how little say or power P&O carry that they can't 'reserve' a pilot (or get us into another port). 

What they're actually doing is pulling the rug from under our feet, milking a lucrative school holiday market and going with the flow because customers are happy to accept the 'well it didn't cost much' trade off. 

 

Thanks for the reply, From start to end it felt like a budget cruise and we have sailed many times with both P&O and on Oceana, 7 days and only 2 production shows, the food in the MDR was as usual but OMG we only called in the buffet at lunchtime once and though I know it was half term but did they need to have school dinners, even saw one bloke get a handful of food and stuff it in his mouth on the way out. With all the virus issues no one seemed to bother about not using the hand gel in the buffet, though they did at the MDR. 

[Satureyes]

41 minutes ago, Two 2 Tango said:

 

Thanks for the reply, From start to end it felt like a budget cruise and we have sailed many times with both P&O and on Oceana, 7 days and only 2 production shows, the food in the MDR was as usual but OMG we only called in the buffet at lunchtime once and though I know it was half term but did they need to have school dinners, even saw one bloke get a handful of food and stuff it in his mouth on the way out. With all the virus issues no one seemed to bother about not using the hand gel in the buffet, though they did at the MDR. 

Yuk. Well we mainly avoid the buffet anyway because it's like a feeding time at the zoo - on most boats it's pretty much a smash and grab for the food. 
To be fair the MDM food was actually good - like a decent gastropub and a good variety each night. 
Unfortunately they can't vet people for their social graces but it would be nice if they did. 

[sogne]

6 hours ago, Satureyes said:

Actually I got the questionnaire - I ignored it and they sent it again!

I've sent the email - and they sent the 'within 28 days' but then I got another mail saying it's been passed onto guest relations. 

I dont think it's acceptable to say 'we didn't pay much so we should accept what it was'. I didn't book the cruise to 'perhaps' or 'maybe' have things. If there is a drop in standard in a winter cruise they should say - 'you may not go anywhere and may be late all the time, and you can't expect what others who pay twice as much get'

I understand the pilots not being available etc - but I am also pretty sure that the port knew we were coming many weeks ago, and I think it shows how little say or power P&O carry that they can't 'reserve' a pilot (or get us into another port). 

What they're actually doing is pulling the rug from under our feet, milking a lucrative school holiday market and going with the flow because customers are happy to accept the 'well it didn't cost much' trade off. 

if as reported pilots could not disembark from vessels or had worked their hours no matter how long before a pilot was booked there is very little you can do the Wandalaar anchorage  has been packed recently with ships waiting to go to Antwerp or elsewhere on the Schedlt  I once sat their for 5 days for the very same reason too rough for plots to get off or on

[wowzz]

Going back to the original post, we were on the cruise affected by Storm Dennis as well. I certainly would have complained vigorously if our cabin was anything like the OPs. Our standard balcony cabin was keen and pretty well maintained, given the age of the ship. In fact, I thought the ship looked in pretty good nick overall  Mrs W went so far as to comment on how well maintained the external paintwork and woodwork was kept. Even the sunbeds looked pretty new.

The daily lectures were pretty hopeless (decluttering your mind, for goodness sake!) and the choice of food in the buffet was pretty uninspiring.  The staff, however, we found to be polite and cheerful.

Not a fan of the public areas opening off the atrium - I felt sorry for the entertainers, who had to perform in virtual corridors.

 

[Satureyes]

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

Going back to the original post, we were on the cruise affected by Storm Dennis as well. I certainly would have complained vigorously if our cabin was anything like the OPs. Our standard balcony cabin was keen and pretty well maintained, given the age of the ship. In fact, I thought the ship looked in pretty good nick overall  Mrs W went so far as to comment on how well maintained the external paintwork and woodwork was kept. Even the sunbeds looked pretty new.

The daily lectures were pretty hopeless (decluttering your mind, for goodness sake!) and the choice of food in the buffet was pretty uninspiring.  The staff, however, we found to be polite and cheerful.

Not a fan of the public areas opening off the atrium - I felt sorry for the entertainers, who had to perform in virtual corridors.

 

I always wanted to run some workshops on cruise boats on sea days. Things like how to take better photos/video on your cellphone etc etc. various photo workshops and possibly some photo walks in port. No idea who I'd ask about carrying them out though!

[wowzz]

23 minutes ago, Satureyes said:

I always wanted to run some workshops on cruise boats on sea days. Things like how to take better photos/video on your cellphone etc etc. various photo workshops and possibly some photo walks in port. No idea who I'd ask about carrying them out though!

The Photographic team onboard normally do a couple of workshops on each cruise, but probably not in as much depth as you propose.  I think that one of the drawbacks to your idea is that there would be insufficient take up. 

[Satureyes]

51 minutes ago, wowzz said:

The Photographic team onboard normally do a couple of workshops on each cruise, but probably not in as much depth as you propose.  I think that one of the drawbacks to your idea is that there would be insufficient take up. 

I can't believe there would be less take up than a bloke talking about fire rescue. 

Also - without wishing to sound like a big-shot, I'm pretty well known in the field I work in and am presenting seminars at various photo shows around the world so I would like to think it's rather engaging. 

on a winter cruise with 2 sea days.. people were literally sitting waiting for food and doing nothing. I'd go to a 1 hour presentation about how to take better photos  and videos. 

 

 

[eddie11]

There’s info - or at least a link - on the P&O website for would-be presenters.

Good luck finding it - you’ll have to find the perfect word combination for your search

 

[wowzz]

5 hours ago, Satureyes said:

I can't believe there would be less take up than a bloke talking about fire rescue. 

Also - without wishing to sound like a big-shot, I'm pretty well known in the field I work in and am presenting seminars at various photo shows around the world so I would like to think it's rather engaging. 

on a winter cruise with 2 sea days.. people were literally sitting waiting for food and doing nothing. I'd go to a 1 hour presentation about how to take better photos  and videos. 

 

 

I would really like to attend one of your talks, plus a shore trip. But, the Photographic Centre, with albums,  special "Memories" etc, is a major  profit centre for P&O.  I doubt you will get much encouragement from them. Why not try cruise lines that don't have these sort of profit centres - Saga, Viking etc.  

[Satureyes]

On 2/22/2020 at 10:49 PM, Harry Peterson said:

Not a travel insurance job - entirely down to P&O.  Start the process on the ship, make the claim in writing, get a written acknowledgement, and pursue it when you return home.  P&O will probably refuse initially, but you need to maintain the claim until they back down.  There's a possibility they may offer to settle with a non-disclosure agreement, meaning you cannot discuss or disclose the settlement with anyone else.

Hi Harry. I finally heard back from P&O and of course they had an answer and justification for all the issues I raised. Not just the missed ports. 
 

ive replied and drawn their attention to the legislation (again)  which doesn’t take into account acts of god etcI’m sure they will reply with nothing positive. In their email the final paragraph reads:

 

Considering the above, whilst I understand your frustration with regard to the changed itinerary and delayed check in, we are not in a position to provide any compensation as the changes made were due to weather conditions out of our control and therefore fall under force majeure. I understand that this may not have been the response you were hoping for with regard to compensation and I can only apologise for any further disappointment which this has caused. I hope that in spite of the issues you have raised that there were many positive aspects to your voyage on board Oceana and that we have the chance to welcome you aboard again in the future to restore your faith in the service we have to offer.

 

[Harry Peterson]

21 minutes ago, Satureyes said:

Hi Harry. I finally heard back from P&O and of course they had an answer and justification for all the issues I raised. Not just the missed ports. 
 

ive replied and drawn their attention to the legislation (again)  which doesn’t take into account acts of god etcI’m sure they will reply with nothing positive. In their email the final paragraph reads:

 

Considering the above, whilst I understand your frustration with regard to the changed itinerary and delayed check in, we are not in a position to provide any compensation as the changes made were due to weather conditions out of our control and therefore fall under force majeure. I understand that this may not have been the response you were hoping for with regard to compensation and I can only apologise for any further disappointment which this has caused. I hope that in spite of the issues you have raised that there were many positive aspects to your voyage on board Oceana and that we have the chance to welcome you aboard again in the future to restore your faith in the service we have to offer.

 

Unsurprising, of course, and as predicted.  Interesting that they're trying to use force majeure as a getout.  Not easy under English law, and even more difficult if it isn't specifically referred to in the contract - which, looking at the T&C, it isn't.

 

It does depend very much on the facts though - what are the differences between the cruise as booked, and the cruise as delivered?