Convince me.

[FolsomMike]

Anyone who flies or cruises before there is a readily available vaccine (at least a year away according to all the experts), is being both incredibly foolish and socially irresponsible. 

[bitob]

Personally a cruise ship is more frightening to me than a plane.  But in general I agree -- no one should underestimate the danger of this virus.

[pinotlover]

48 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

I am not saying that at all - just not a betting person with my hard earned money. Will happily return to Oceania when this is over and there is a vaccine and the "new" Oceania is much like the one I know now.

Any specific scenarios other than banning the old and people with underlying medical histories?

 Oceania, and its lenders, can’t tolerate waiting until some unspecified date as “ when this is over”, and until an unspecified list of conditions are meet for past cruisers to return. All the very valid reasons for you not to cruise = a very valid excuse for Oceania to move on.

 

 I can give you multiple completely different scenarios for a “new” Oceania. Here is just one. They target well to do Gen Xers and Millenniums. Our children, and their friends, are successful doctors and business professionals that can easily afford Oceania, it just doesn’t offer them anything currently.
 

1. Oceania reduces most all cruises to 7-12 days in length expanding most cruises to a wider audience.

 

2. They offer a host of family ( read

children) activities and tours, for both sea days and port days.

 

3.  The entertainment and shows changes from 1950-1960 music to 1980 - present music. 
 

4.  The string quartet, with people confusing it with napping hour, is replaced with a jazz and blues group. The Perry Como piano player, in Martinis,  is just replaced.

 

5. They enhance their current menus to meet the palates of those new targeted cruisers and worry less about facilitating the 101 eating restrictions of their now past targeted cruisers.

 

Just one possible scenario that doesn’t ban anyone. Multiple completely different ones are possible. 

[Paulchili]

2 minutes ago, bitob said:

Personally a cruise ship is more frightening to me than a plane.  But in general I agree -- no one should underestimate the danger of this virus.

Only a semantic difference. All it takes is one sick person on either the plane or ship and you probably got it.

Sure, better to be on land when sick (although it depends on where you are) than being trapped on the ship.

To me they are both risky before a vaccine.

[Paulchili]

4 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

 Oceania, and its lenders, can’t tolerate waiting until some unspecified date as “ when this is over”, and until an unspecified list of conditions are meet for past cruisers to return. All the very valid reasons for you not to cruise = a very valid excuse for Oceania to move on.

 

 I can give you multiple completely different scenarios for a “new” Oceania. Here is just one. They target well to do Gen Xers and Millenniums. Our children, and their friends, are successful doctors and business professionals that can easily afford Oceania, it just doesn’t offer them anything currently.
 

1. Oceania reduces most all cruises to 7-12 days in length expanding most cruises to a wider audience.

 

2. They offer a host of family ( read

children) activities and tours, for both sea days and port days.

 

3.  The entertainment and shows changes from 1950-1960 music to 1980 - present music. 
 

4.  The string quartet, with people confusing it with napping hour, is replaced with a jazz and blues group. The Perry Como piano player, in Martinis,  is just replaced.

 

5. They enhance their current menus to meet the palates of those new targeted cruisers and worry less about facilitating the 101 eating restrictions of their now past targeted cruisers.

 

Just one possible scenario that doesn’t ban anyone. Multiple completely different ones are possible. 

You are correct in saying that this scenario would appeal to a whole different crowd and therefore probably not to me. I like the Oceania pretty much as it is.

1 Don't want to fly to Europe or Asia/Australia for 7-12 days (don't mind a few days pre/post cruise but not much into land travel any more)

2 Not interested in cruising with children

4 I prefer the string quartet to jazz/blues - personal preference

5 Love the food as it is

Some of these suggestions might result in higher prices - they are high enough for me as is.

If they feel the need to change to something you suggest, there are other lines that might appeal to me more than the "new" Oceania.

[pinotlover]

Paul;

 

I’m not saying I’d be particularly happy with all those changes. However, if all the Boomers + start canceling all their cruises, they are merely throwing the doors wide open mandating Oceania do something different to get booking and revenue.
 

A cheerleader not booking cruises quickly becomes no different from a hater not booking cruises. No booking = no booking.  
 

 

[Paulchili]

19 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Paul;

 

I’m not saying I’d be particularly happy with all those changes. However, if all the Boomers + start canceling all their cruises, they are merely throwing the doors wide open mandating Oceania do something different to get booking and revenue.
 

A cheerleader not booking cruises quickly becomes no different from a hater not booking cruises. No booking = no booking.  
 

 

I have $20K in FCC with Seabourn as I couldn't get a refund. I am not cruising till there is a vaccine or treatment - not to mention what might happen to my personal health in that time. I may or may not be able to use that FCC by 12/31/21.

I am not throwing away any more money in hopes that I can cruise in the near (or even far) future - just waiting to see how things turn out and who is left standing (or cruising).

If you are more confident and your situation is different, go ahead and book away 🙂

[CintiPam]

9 hours ago, jonthomas said:

We have a cruise booked with Oceania for Dec/Jan 2020 on the Riviera in the Carib.  From all the signs, I know it will not happen.

 

We will not give final dep, in fact will cancel 120 before sail date to avoid admin fee. I learned to do that from someone here and I am grateful. 

 

We have a $500 dep on it. Would probably make sense to cancel it now. Taking a real chance waiting, since if they go bankrupt , we will see none of it.

 

So I have not taken my own advice, to cancel now and hope to get it back, while there may still be some money in the coffers. 

 

There is nothing to gain by waiting.  Seems that I am just hanging on to it for emotional reasons not rational ones. Need someone to convince me to take my own advice and cancel now. 

Take your own advice and cancel now.  IMO you simply should stop dwelling on this mentally so you can move on to other more worthy ponderings.  A Caribbean cruise on Riviera easily can be booked on comparatively short notice; flights to the Greater Miami area and hotel rooms do not require much lead time.  
 

Although Riviera is our favorite ship, and we had a delightful spoiling time on our February 26 through March 11 Southern Caribbean cruise (simply fortunate timing, returning home right before life changed here in Ohio), we seldom previously booked our Riviera Caribbean cruises in the old “normal” times more than six months in advance.  

 

Stress reduction and mental health are important.  Stay well and stay strong!
 

 

[clo]

2 hours ago, FolsomMike said:

at least a year away

I totally agree with you except for this. Eighteen months would be HUGE. Trying to remember if four to five years is the average.

[clo]

2 hours ago, Paulchili said:

Any specific scenarios other than banning the old and people with underlying medical histories?

Yes please.

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

 5. They enhance their current menus to meet the palates of those new targeted cruisers

 oh so  you mean the gluten free (not medical issue), Poke bowls, Vegan, plant based foods, raw foods  

young families with kids in diapers instead of old people in diapers

heavy metal/rap/hip hop  music in Martinis at night

Not worth flying anywhere for  a 7 day cruise

 

Good luck  with your wishes 😁

 

[LHT28]

even if they get  a vaccine  in the next 12 mths   it does not mean  the virus will be the same  in 24 mths

 

Just saw an article  that they think  the virus can re activate in people that  had it  already   a very scary thought

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/south-korea-reports-recovered-coronavirus-112256381.html

 

[clo]

1 hour ago, Paulchili said:

If you are more confident and your situation is different, go ahead and book away 🙂

I get the sense that there are people who think that they MUST cruise. And I just don't get it. We've cruised maybe 8 or 9 times in about 15 years and we mostly enjoyed them. We've traveled a lot of other ways and we mostly enjoyed them. If we never travel out of the country again, that's okay. And when/if the day comes that we never travel at all, that's okay. Our lives are bigger than that. I'm sincerely surprised at how upset some here are that cruising may flat out go away.  IMO...so what? This isn't world peace.

 

[LHT28]

8 minutes ago, clo said:

I get the sense that there are people who think that they MUST cruise. And I just don't get it. We've cruised maybe 8 or 9 times in about 15 years and we mostly enjoyed them. We've traveled a lot of other ways and we mostly enjoyed them. If we never travel out of the country again, that's okay. And when/if the day comes that we never travel at all, that's okay. Our lives are bigger than that. I'm sincerely surprised at how upset some here are that cruising may flat out go away.  IMO...so what? This isn't world peace.

 

So  you are saying people should just think like you??

 Some people enjoy bus trips  

Some people like cruises

Some people enjoy  RV ing

Some like to do motorcycle trips 

Some people like to stay at home

 personal choices  

if not your thing  ..then so what  let others do what they enjoy

[clo]

3 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

then so what  let others do what they enjoy

Good grief. Sure. But if any or all of these things go away you won't die. Maybe you'll miss it. Maybe you'll find something you like even more. No one MUST do any of these discretionary things. Right? Or not right?

[pinotlover]

Clo;

 

Exactly! 
 

I have worked for large international corporations and owned and ran my own company. Companies that survive and flourish over the long term are those that evolved and changed to meet current customer needs and market place conditions. I’ve seen many fail that refuse to change as the markets change. 
 

I am not a big fan of the changes that mast be necessary. They are not my wishes as some imply. Again, what is the difference between a cheerleader not booking cruises and a hater? Both equal no revenue! 
 

If anyone believes that those Lenders are going to sit and wait until 2022, for the ever aging, past cruisers to maybe book again ; I want some of what they’re smoking! 
 

Times they are a’ changing! What will those changes bring?

[clo]

3 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

I am not a big fan of the changes that mast be necessary. They are not my wishes as some imply. Again, what is the difference between a cheerleader not booking cruises and a hater? Both equal no revenue! 

I honestly don't understand what this means (assuming "mast" would be "must). And is there no in between a "cheerleader" and a "hater"? (I happen to be neither.) And if the business goes away that would be a sad financial result. But passengers will move on to something else.

[YoHoHo]

1 hour ago, LHT28 said:

even if they get  a vaccine  in the next 12 mths   it does not mean  the virus will be the same  in 24 mths

 

Just saw an article  that they think  the virus can re activate in people that  had it  already   a very scary thought

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/south-korea-reports-recovered-coronavirus-112256381.html

 

Vaccine plus treatment. Several different channels investigating / live testing treatments. It is the treatment first option I am hoping for. If the symptoms can be treated and no need to resort to ICU and ventilators and so less deadly a mutation or re-occurrence is not nearly as bad. Treatments might be available before a vaccine is. *IF* the virus mutates as readily as the seasonal flu (and I am NOT saying it does) with its level of contagiousness there would still not be a lot of confidence to just go out into public never mind a cruise. IMHO if at least the symptoms could be treated we could move forward, carefully. 

[jonthomas]

11 hours ago, CintiPam said:

Take your own advice and cancel now.  IMO you simply should stop dwelling on this mentally so you can move on to other more worthy ponderings.  A Caribbean cruise on Riviera easily can be booked on comparatively short notice; flights to the Greater Miami area and hotel rooms do not require much lead time.  
 

Although Riviera is our favorite ship, and we had a delightful spoiling time on our February 26 through March 11 Southern Caribbean cruise (simply fortunate timing, returning home right before life changed here in Ohio), we seldom previously booked our Riviera Caribbean cruises in the old “normal” times more than six months in advance.  

 

Stress reduction and mental health are important.  Stay well and stay strong!
 

 

 

 

I am definitely not dwelling on or stressing over this. This is the least of all my worries. In fact talking about this is stress relief. 

Staying well mentally, means being able to communicate with others, sharing, having a social contact. At a time like this, virtual contact is the only social contact we can have. As I have said before , this is a very little problem, in fact no problem at all. Cancelling, rebooking, etc, all very easily done. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

11 hours ago, LHT28 said:

So  you are saying people should just think like you??

 Some people enjoy bus trips  

Some people like cruises

Some people enjoy  RV ing

Some like to do motorcycle trips 

Some people like to stay at home

 personal choices  

if not your thing  ..then so what  let others do what they enjoy

Not only do some folks "like" cruises, they also may be passionate about them (as are people passionate about all sorts of hobbies, jobs, et al.). 

We LOVE the sea (I spent an important part of my professional life at sea); we live right on the shore of SF Bay; our land vacations are usually on a coast somewhere (and often sandwich a cruise). Our kid grew up on our sailboat in a town where the only "little league" was competitive sailing. Did I say "we LOVE the sea?"

And, while the sea will still be there should cruise lines ever disappear (highly unlikely), the value laden efficacy of premium/luxury cruising for senior citizens, particularly those who are passionate about it, would sorely be missed.

 

[CintiPam]

2 hours ago, jonthomas said:

 

 

I am definitely not dwelling on or stressing over this. This is the least of all my worries. In fact talking about this is stress relief. 

Staying well mentally, means being able to communicate with others, sharing, having a social contact. At a time like this, virtual contact is the only social contact we can have. As I have said before , this is a very little problem, in fact no problem at all. Cancelling, rebooking, etc, all very easily done. 

Very glad that is the case for you.  There is a great deal of stress reflected in many other postings (as well as in so many repetitive postings 😁) on this Oceania board.  

If this type of social contact works for you, great!

Edited April 11, 2020 by CintiPam

[jonthomas]

Yes there are a lot of repetitive posts. I am guilty of that  myself. 

[Petoonya]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Not only do some folks "like" cruises, they also may be passionate about them (as are people passionate about all sorts of hobbies, jobs, et al.). 

We LOVE the sea (I spent an important part of my professional life at sea); we live right on the shore of SF Bay; our land vacations are usually on a coast somewhere (and often sandwich a cruise). Our kid grew up on our sailboat in a town where the only "little league" was competitive sailing. Did I say "we LOVE the sea?"

And, while the sea will still be there should cruise lines ever disappear (highly unlikely), the value laden efficacy of premium/luxury cruising for senior citizens, particularly those who are passionate about it, would sorely be missed.

 

+1

[Hawaiidan]

On 4/10/2020 at 8:49 AM, Paulchili said:

I would. If ships are cruising by then you could easily re-book this or another Carib cruise without any problem.

I doubt very much people will be rushing to cruise anytime really soon.

Get your cash back now before they'll offer FCC only.

 

 

On the other hand.....Dec 2020 / Jan 2021  is a long way away.     I sincerely think that the cruise will go    I HAVE a European cruise Sept 20 and have full confidence that it will go.

I think people will be booking a lot more than many expect after 3 months+ of quarantine there will be a pentup energy....The cruise ships did not cause this the Chinese  government did...  The carribe will be fine.        I have a June 10th final payment and I plan to make it.    I see  it as an investment for future travel  if they dont sail on that one  then my investment will have made 25%.     If you ever plan on sailing anywhere again  consider it is a wise move...   NCL and Oceaina  are not going anywhere....  Too many people are in a panic to get back their money, like 1929 's bank runs...  It did them no good and in made the banks fold !!!       My take is I like O  and plan on sailing on her in the future..  Leaving my cash with them seems  to me like a good thing for both of us..

[Hawaiidan]

13 hours ago, clo said:

Good grief. Sure. But if any or all of these things go away you won't die. Maybe you'll miss it. Maybe you'll find something you like even more. No one MUST do any of these discretionary things. Right? Or not right?

Correct  and to be safe  you can cuddle up in front of the TV and watch the Kardashians and sponge bob for the rest of you life.......  Live life ... there are a thousand ways to die sitting at home...   Live life dangerously its the only time you live at all  ( Walter Bonatti)