Cruising may never be the same again.

[Ocean Boy]

1 hour ago, bonsai3s said:

What about the medical unit?

On our most recent (last December) sailing on the Freedom, there were 2 doctors for the entire ship.

Guessing Royal will hire more doctors?...more nurses?....more equipment?

How many doctors do you think are necessary for a ship population of under 5000 people?

[Ocean Boy]

1 hour ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

 

The CDC No Sail Order makes clear that this part of cruising is going to change. 

As cruisers, most of us realized that "onboard medical services" were ... ah ... underwhelming. Changing this will cost a bunch, but cruise lines (and their passengers) will have to expect higher fares if ships are ever to sail again.

Actually, I am pretty impressed what is available just a short elevator ride away. Most vacation spots don't have that kind of access to medical care on the property. The ships really can't be expected to have the abilities of the Mass General down on deck 1. Unfortunately, that is a risk you take when choosing to take a vacation out at sea. It can never come close to matching what is available to you on land.

[flyguyjake]

Have any of the cruise lines released their covid protocols yet for moving forward? If you have to be airlifted off ship due to covid who pays for that? Do they just fly you to the nearest country? Does US medical insurance cover medical care in a foreign country? I've read something about medical ships for covid patients from cruises? We cannot use commercial air to travel home after testing positive? soooo many unknowns to think about before committing to another cruise.

[Ocean Boy]

4 minutes ago, flyguyjake said:

Have any of the cruise lines released their covid protocols yet for moving forward? If you have to be airlifted off ship due to covid who pays for that? Do they just fly you to the nearest country? Does US medical insurance cover medical care in a foreign country? I've read something about medical ships for covid patients from cruises? We cannot use commercial air to travel home after testing positive? soooo many unknowns to think about before committing to another cruise.

Actually, your points apply just as much to the pre-COVID days. Many people just don't give a lot of thought to what could happen to them medically when traveling, whether it be out at sea or in a foreign country. Being out at sea has its risks and they can never be completely mitigated.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

1 minute ago, Ocean Boy said:

Actually, I am pretty impressed what is available just a short elevator ride away. Most vacation spots don't have that kind of access to medical care on the property. The ships really can't be expected to have the abilities of the Mass General down on deck 1. Unfortunately, that is a risk you take when choosing to take a vacation out at sea. It can never come close to matching what is available to you on land.

we'll see what happens. But the CDC No Sail Order suggests that this matter is just like so much else right now: Just because cruise lines got away with it before doesn't mean it's going to work in this new, post-March world.

     The CDC is looking for cruise lines to create hospital or rescue ships along with richly expanding their onboard medical care.

      The cruise lines can reply "that costs too much." The CDC (and many, many ports around the world) can then answer  "OK, then your ships are going to get very rusty as they stay parked for the next

couple of years"

     Cruise lines won't have Mass General down there, but no more of near-retiree docs in glorified urgent care rooms with maybe a part-time nurse. 

[Biker19]

8 minutes ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

 Cruise lines won't have Mass General down there, but no more of near-retiree docs in glorified urgent care rooms with maybe a part-time nurse. 

I rather be treated in a current ships medical care center than probably 3/4 of the world's hospitals.

[Ocean Boy]

11 minutes ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

 

     Cruise lines won't have Mass General down there, but no more of near-retiree docs in glorified urgent care rooms with maybe a part-time nurse. 

I have not visited all of the medical centers on ships I've been on as I prefer to just get away from medicine when cruising. But when I have visited I have been impressed with the staffing and the facilities.

[sgmn]

27 minutes ago, flyguyjake said:

Have any of the cruise lines released their covid protocols yet for moving forward? If you have to be airlifted off ship due to covid who pays for that? Do they just fly you to the nearest country? Does US medical insurance cover medical care in a foreign country? 

I think this will be a major issue for most people. I would  never travel without medical insurance and if Covid-19 wasn't covered, then that would be that for me. No more cruises. 

[dani negreanu]

23 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Many people just don't give a lot of thought to what could happen to them medically when traveling, whether it be out at sea or in a foreign country. Being out at sea has its risks and they can never be completely mitigated.

 

We always add air-lifting to our medical insurance when travelling abroad.

 

Also, should the "occasion" arise, body returning....

[grapau27]

31 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Actually, I am pretty impressed what is available just a short elevator ride away. Most vacation spots don't have that kind of access to medical care on the property. The ships really can't be expected to have the abilities of the Mass General down on deck 1. Unfortunately, that is a risk you take when choosing to take a vacation out at sea. It can never come close to matching what is available to you on land.

We were on NCL Gems maiden voyage in 2007 with Paulines parents.

Her dad had been 10 years in remission with prostate cancer.

The South African surgeon on board fitted a catheter when he had a total blockage and saved his life.

The facilities in the medical centre were excellent.

[jakeil7]

Here is what I expect although, as mentioned previously it is all hypothetical. I don’t think even the cruise lines know. 
 

1.  Crew cabins will be single occupancy. To do that they will move crew into inside and ocean view cabins previously set aside for passengers. 
2.  Passengers will only be placed in cabins with balconies. 
3.  Due to the lower passenger count, expect fewer crew (less required).  This will lead to some venues being closed or having reduced hours.

4.  Demand will not be as weak as everyone thinks initially. There is pent up travel/vacation demand now. Later on might be a different story. 

5.  Expect higher base costs due to all the items above. 
6.  Cruises to nowhere (if allowed) or to private islands will be first for two reasons:  better for RCI’s bottom line and less worry about port issues. 
7.  Because of 5 and 6, the newest ships will be first as they provide the most on board entertainment and the highest population of people willing to buy extra stuff.

8.  Demand will eventually tank as other travel options become available and older cruisers (a major demographic) decide cruising is too dangerous and/or expensive. This will lead to a sell off of older ships.  New customers will be harder to find as they are going to have to pull from a younger demographic. Not too bad for RCCL, but RCI’s other lines are going to be hurt bad.  Expect to see many of the smaller brands go away. 

[grapau27]

6 minutes ago, dani negreanu said:

 

We always add air-lifting to our medical insurance when travelling abroad.

 

Also, should the "occasion" arise, body returning....

Our insurance does too.

Very sensible and hopefully you and your family or Pauline and I never need these services.

[npcl]

27 minutes ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

we'll see what happens. But the CDC No Sail Order suggests that this matter is just like so much else right now: Just because cruise lines got away with it before doesn't mean it's going to work in this new, post-March world.

     The CDC is looking for cruise lines to create hospital or rescue ships along with richly expanding their onboard medical care.

      The cruise lines can reply "that costs too much." The CDC (and many, many ports around the world) can then answer  "OK, then your ships are going to get very rusty as they stay parked for the next

couple of years"

     Cruise lines won't have Mass General down there, but no more of near-retiree docs in glorified urgent care rooms with maybe a part-time nurse. 

Have not had to go to the medical center on Royal ships during my cruises there, but I do know that on Princess they tend to use Emergency room certified doctors from South Africa.  SA produces very well trained doctors, but they get paid very poorly.  On one of my trips I talked with the husband of the ships physician.  They were both in their early 30.  He was a chemical engineer and said that on a 6 month contract his wife made more on the cruise ship, than both of them would make working in SA for a year.

 

Ship medical centers are the equivalent of a hospital emergency room.  They are intended to provide emergency care and and in the case where the care of the patient is beyond their capabilities to stabilize the patient for transport.

 

The CDC is now expanding that in the case of Covid-19 such that in additional to emergency care the cruise lines now needs to be able to provide that same care for Covid-19 patients, up to and including ICU level.  The reason why I say cruise lines and not ship, because they can decide to do it by setting up a hospital ship for such ill passengers to be transferred to instead of remaining on their original ship.  The key to the CDC requirements is that Covid-19 passengers will not come ashore in the US or its territories while ill.

[Paulette3028]

4 minutes ago, jakeil7 said:

Here is what I expect although, as mentioned previously it is all hypothetical. I don’t think even the cruise lines know. 
 

1.  Crew cabins will be single occupancy. To do that they will move crew into inside and ocean view cabins previously set aside for passengers. 
2.  Passengers will only be placed in cabins with balconies. 
3.  Due to the lower passenger count, expect fewer crew (less required).  This will lead to some venues being closed or having reduced hours.

4.  Demand will not be as weak as everyone thinks initially. There is pent up travel/vacation demand now. Later on might be a different story. 

5.  Expect higher base costs due to all the items above. 
6.  Cruises to nowhere (if allowed) or to private islands will be first for two reasons:  better for RCI’s bottom line and less worry about port issues. 
7.  Because of 5 and 6, the newest ships will be first as they provide the most on board entertainment and the highest population of people willing to buy extra stuff.

8.  Demand will eventually tank as other travel options become available and older cruisers (a major demographic) decide cruising is too dangerous and/or expensive. This will lead to a sell off of older ships.  New customers will be harder to find as they are going to have to pull from a younger demographic. Not too bad for RCCL, but RCI’s other lines are going to be hurt bad.  Expect to see many of the smaller brands go away. 

I think the following is definitely going to be true.

4.  Demand will not be as weak as everyone thinks initially. There is pent up travel/vacation demand now. Later on might be a different story. 

6.  Cruises to nowhere (if allowed) or to private islands will be first for two reasons:  better for RCI’s bottom line and less worry about port issues. 

 

For both of these to give the cruise lines their biggest bank for the buck, larger ships with all the fun features will be most enticing to cruisers.

 

Time will tell.

 

 

[npcl]

6 minutes ago, jakeil7 said:

Here is what I expect although, as mentioned previously it is all hypothetical. I don’t think even the cruise lines know. 
 

1.  Crew cabins will be single occupancy. To do that they will move crew into inside and ocean view cabins previously set aside for passengers. 
2.  Passengers will only be placed in cabins with balconies. 
3.  Due to the lower passenger count, expect fewer crew (less required).  This will lead to some venues being closed or having reduced hours.

4.  Demand will not be as weak as everyone thinks initially. There is pent up travel/vacation demand now. Later on might be a different story. 

5.  Expect higher base costs due to all the items above. 
6.  Cruises to nowhere (if allowed) or to private islands will be first for two reasons:  better for RCI’s bottom line and less worry about port issues. 
7.  Because of 5 and 6, the newest ships will be first as they provide the most on board entertainment and the highest population of people willing to buy extra stuff.

8.  Demand will eventually tank as other travel options become available and older cruisers (a major demographic) decide cruising is too dangerous and/or expensive. This will lead to a sell off of older ships.  New customers will be harder to find as they are going to have to pull from a younger demographic. Not too bad for RCCL, but RCI’s other lines are going to be hurt bad.  Expect to see many of the smaller brands go away. 

your item 4.

 

I expect immediate demand to be driven by FCCs from canceled cruises, not customers booking with cash, except potentially for some that had cruises canceled and got  refunds and think that all will be back to normal once the cruise lines start sailing again.

[dani negreanu]

9 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

Very sensible and hopefully you and your family or Pauline and I never need these services.

 

Indeed.

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best 💐

[jakeil7]

14 minutes ago, npcl said:

I expect immediate demand to be driven by FCCs from canceled cruises, not customers booking with cash, except potentially for some that had cruises canceled and got  refunds and think that all will be back to normal once the cruise lines start sailing again.

I think you will actually see both. But I do expect the existence of FCC will drive prices up.

 

My guess is based on travel outside the US taking far longer to recover than travel within the US and the limited options will further drive cruise bookings (I am including cruises starting from the US in US domestic travel for this comment only). Further, issues with travel services provided by small businesses will further increase demand for cruises. 

[Hoopster95]

31 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

I rather be treated in a current ships medical care center than probably 3/4 of the world's hospitals.

 

Sept 2019 on board Adventure of the Seas, my GF snapped her Achilles up at the Sports court. Of course, at the time we didn't know it was ruptured, just that she heard a loud "bang" and screamed in pain. Sports Court manager was there in mere seconds, and with ice & wheelchair heading down to medical in less than 10 minutes.

 

Doctor was called in, looked at her for a grand total of 60 seconds (I'm being very generous here) and said "it's just a sprain". The muscle did not ball up, so it's not a tear. They gave us crutches (gratis) and told us to move along, no fee. Awesome... Thank you! So hobbling on crutches and in pain on the final sea day, as well as 3 further days in NYC, we finally got home.

 

Still in pain and feeling things just aren't right, she decided to head up to emergency at a local hospital. After a wait, she got in, doctor looks at her and touches behind the good leg and says "Do you feel this? Do you feel that?" as he gently tests... GF can feel it no problem. He then goes to the bad leg, does the same feeling... GF says she can't feel anything. 

No joke, doctor's exact words were "who's the idiot who let you walk on crutches for the last 5 days?"

 

MRI confirmed and revealed a 2 cm tear (thank God not a full tear) ... we had to cancel our Morocco trip, rehab for months (with pain,etc) has been a b!tch to say the least, and now while walking ok she still has to be careful as pain comes and goes. She's ahead of schedule as this injury normally takes 9-12 months. I am 100% positive the ship doctor did not maliciously misdiagnose my GF, however she obviously had zero experience with this injury.

 

Give me a proper hospital within a country with a reputation of state of the art equipment and excellent health care over any ship doctor. In my humble and ignorant/no evidence opinion, there's no damn way they would be able to treat for Corona better on ship than in a large fully staffed, fully equipped, fully informed hospital on land.

[Ocean Boy]

13 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

Give me a proper hospital within a country with a reputation of state of the art equipment and excellent health care over any ship doctor. In my humble and ignorant/no evidence opinion, there's no damn way they would be able to treat for Corona better on ship than in a large fully staffed, fully equipped, fully informed hospital on land.

I agree. So spending a lot of money in an attempt to accomplish something that isn't going to work is fruitless. Again, this is a risk of vacationing out at sea.

 

BTW, it can be difficult to diagnose a partial tear to a tendon or ligament without an MRI as you don't lose active joint motion from a partial tear. The key tends to be the amount of pain. With a partial tear there is more stretch on the remaining intact fibers that form the ligament and that is what cause the increase in pain. With a complete tear the pain will often go away as there is no longer any stretch on fibers that the ligament is composed of. It is important to be suspicious and treat partials appropriately as you don't want them to progress to a complete tear. Just my two cents.

[Ocean Boy]

50 minutes ago, npcl said:

 

The CDC is now expanding that in the case of Covid-19 such that in additional to emergency care the cruise lines now needs to be able to provide that same care for Covid-19 patients, up to and including ICU level.  The reason why I say cruise lines and not ship, because they can decide to do it by setting up a hospital ship for such ill passengers to be transferred to instead of remaining on their original ship.  The key to the CDC requirements is that Covid-19 passengers will not come ashore in the US or its territories while ill.

I just don't see how this works. Cruise ships sail all over the world. How many hospital ships can there be? Do you station one in the Caribbean and have all the cruise ships sail in a circle around it just in case? What about the dangers of transferring people from ship to ship? The whole decree is mind boggling but I guess there are bigger minds then mine that this makes some sense to.

[Ourusualbeach]

1 hour ago, dani negreanu said:

 

We always add air-lifting to our medical insurance when travelling abroad.

 

Also, should the "occasion" arise, body returning....

That only works if you are stable enough to travel and only applies once you are at a land based hospital.  If you fall ill and the nearest hospital is Cozumel then that’s where you are going and will only be moved once you are stable enough to do so. 

[Ocean Boy]

6 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

That only works if you are stable enough to travel and only applies once you are at a land based hospital.  If you fall ill and the nearest hospital is Cozumel then that’s where you are going and will only be moved once you are stable enough to do so. 

I took the post to infer exactly that. The air-lift part gets them to the nearest hospital. If things don't work out in a positive way, the body returning will then get them home. 

[Ourusualbeach]

3 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I took the post to infer exactly that. The air-lift part gets them to the nearest hospital. If things don't work out in a positive way, the body returning will get them home. 

Air lifting off the ship is not done through your insurance, it’s done by the coast guard.  The air lifting from the insurance is getting a live body to a US hospital (or your own country),  body returning is getting the corpse back, is how I understand it to work. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Ourusualbeach

[Ocean Boy]

6 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Air lifting off the ship is not done through your insurance, it’s done by the coast guard.  The air lifting from the insurance is getting a live body to a US hospital (or your own country),  body returning is getting the corpse back, is how I understand it to work. 

Dani is from Israel. I think she is talking insurance to cover any cost of medivacing from the ship to a hospital. When we were at Labadee in January a medical helicopter flew someone from the compound to, I presume, a hospital. I think the insurance she is talking about would cover that kind of cost.

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, Ocean Boy said:

I have not visited all of the medical centers on ships I've been on as I prefer to just get away from medicine when cruising. 

We know that feeling.