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Interesting article/Miami Herald

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10 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Blame the United States of America’s who won’t let the crew get to their flights (which were all arranged). I would think that it is low risk to take crew directly from the ships via bus to the commenter/charter terminal (not normal passenger terminal) and control the crew there and get them on the way. 

The US has been closed to cruise ships since April 9. The government has issued specific guidance outlining how to disembark crew. The cruiselines decided that following the guidance was too expensive and impractical, which very well may be true.

 

I agree with your assessment of low risk, but this is not a US issue. You have a situation involving non-US flagged vessels with an overwhelming majority of non-US citizens. We are more than 30 days beyond the April 9 no sail date. If there are still crew "stuck" onboard, that is not a good situation. The employer has not taken necessary steps to get its employees home. We don't have to agree with the US mandate, but at some point, we have to stop blaming the US for crew still "stuck" onboard one month after the US mandate was issued.

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I think it’s a disgraceful, these are human beings, the cruise companies have stranded the staff on ships at sea.

i don’t care about the USA authorities, cruise companies have a responsibility of care, I thought the CWC allowed crew to leave?

 

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7 hours ago, fshagan said:

 

The port is dependent on the Federal government to say they can host cruise ships again. 

 

The federal government has, in every case, allowed the state's to implement their phase in's and has issued guidance.  Some states are opening or are open, some are bitterly closed (in some states, state-wide, for C19 data in a few hot spots).  The former are RED states and the later are BLUE states.  There is no mystery as to what is going on.  Again, FLORIDA WILL LEAD THE WAY for guidance, assistance, supervision (with US CG and CDC) and monitoring of cruising being phased back in.  

 

With the information that is now known, responsive protocol is possible; except for those that fly-in.  The airlines have been given a 100% free pass and it is not safe; social distancing not implemented at all (on planes booked, flights merged and high % passenger count).  Cruising will be able to implement mitigation protocols ahead of the airlines.  Cruisers will likely be those than can 'drive to the ports.

 

Just IMO.

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28 minutes ago, Trimone said:

I thought the CWC allowed crew to leave?

The CDC is allowing crew to leave, if the employer/cruise line can meet some stringent and expensive requirements.  The management of the cruise lines (all of them) have decided it's cheaper to use their ships as ferries to repatriate crew by sea rather than follow the CDC guidelines for crew debarkation.

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2 hours ago, blcruising said:

The US has been closed to cruise ships since April 9. The government has issued specific guidance outlining how to disembark crew. The cruiselines decided that following the guidance was too expensive and impractical, which very well may be true.

 

I agree with your assessment of low risk, but this is not a US issue. You have a situation involving non-US flagged vessels with an overwhelming majority of non-US citizens. We are more than 30 days beyond the April 9 no sail date. If there are still crew "stuck" onboard, that is not a good situation. The employer has not taken necessary steps to get its employees home. We don't have to agree with the US mandate, but at some point, we have to stop blaming the US for crew still "stuck" onboard one month after the US mandate was issued.

 

Sorry, but the US was requiring the cruise line management and governance to be criminally and civilly and personal liable for any crew member related spread of C19 upon transfer from US ports.  That's why they (all of the lines) left a couple weeks ago to task up at their private islands and plan for alternate way to get crew home.

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3 minutes ago, hallux said:

The CDC is allowing crew to leave, if the employer/cruise line can meet some stringent and expensive requirements.  The management of the cruise lines (all of them) have decided it's cheaper to use their ships as ferries to repatriate crew by sea rather than follow the CDC guidelines for crew debarkation.

 

Read previous post.  What they are doing was a no brainer and certainly not cheaper.

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1 hour ago, hallux said:

The CDC is allowing crew to leave, if the employer/cruise line can meet some stringent and expensive requirements.  The management of the cruise lines (all of them) have decided it's cheaper to use their ships as ferries to repatriate crew by sea rather than follow the CDC guidelines for crew debarkation.

Who told you it was cheaper to use the ships as ferries?  It’s extremely expensive to house and feed crew on a ship.  

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Typical Miami Herald.  "Let's make everything seem a horrific as possible so we get more clicks."  Well, I guess that represents all fake media these days.

 

Anyway...yes, the CDC put in place ridiculously unachievable requirements and there we no flights anyway.  The cruise lines are doing the best they can in this situation.  Critics make absolutely no effort to understand this.  

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On 5/18/2020 at 4:24 AM, Formula280SS said:

 

The federal government has, in every case, allowed the state's to implement their phase in's and has issued guidance.  Some states are opening or are open, some are bitterly closed (in some states, state-wide, for C19 data in a few hot spots).  The former are RED states and the later are BLUE states.  There is no mystery as to what is going on.  Again, FLORIDA WILL LEAD THE WAY for guidance, assistance, supervision (with US CG and CDC) and monitoring of cruising being phased back in.  

 

No, that's not how this works. The Federal government has no police powers for health issues, and they cannot order a state to shut down or open up. The states can decide that on their own, due to the police powers for health issues reserved to them through the 10th Amendment.

 

BUT, the Feds can intervene in a specific jurisdiction granted by law - like at ports of entry. The state cannot interfere with the Feds at the port, and if the Feds say you are not disembarking or taking on people at our ports, no one but the Feds can change that. The party the governor belongs to has no bearing on when the Feds say you can disembark people.

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On 5/17/2020 at 1:36 PM, Formula280SS said:

Port of Miami is dead without Cruises.  Period.

 

Luckily, Florida is leading the US in phased, measured re-opening.

 

The cruise line business will be thoroughly phased and measured also, IMO.

 

It's too important.

 

As of 2018, PortMiami accounts for approximately 334,500 jobs and has an annual economic impact of $43 billion to the state of Florida.

keep in mind that the economic figure is for both the cargo portion of the port as well as the cruise port. the majority of the jobs and economic impact is from the cargo side.  for all ports in Florida Cargo port impact 70 billion, cruise side 7 billion.

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On 5/17/2020 at 1:56 PM, hallux said:

Isn't this the same doom and gloom article about how crew are being treated but just posted by a different news outlet?  There have been similar articles posted here recently...

I posted this several days ago and got flamed.  Bad news, kill the messenger 

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6 hours ago, fshagan said:

 

No, that's not how this works. The Federal government has no police powers for health issues, and they cannot order a state to shut down or open up. The states can decide that on their own, due to the police powers for health issues reserved to them through the 10th Amendment.

 

We, that's not what I said; that the Federal government has police state powers over states. 

 

It is also not the 'in substance theme of the post.

 

YIKES. 

 

I said that such "allowed the state's to implement their phase in's and has issued guidance" with regard to the COVID 19 re-opening plans and phases, in conjuction with guidance from the CDC.  

 

Further, I was specifically referring to the port state of Florida, which has had a quite successful experience versus the draconian enumerated police state powers "by the states" (almost universally blue state or major cities); and why such IMO will make Florida ports to lead the way, with a cooperative local, state and FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.  Check out the "police power" being exercised by almost 7 states; not pretty (and look to the various Amendments to the Constitution being 'trampled).  😲

 

The state of Florida, and the cruise ports and lines, are under regulation and even enforcement activities re: cruise ships through, but not limited to, these FEDERAL entities - US Coast Guard (Branch of US Armed Forces under Homeland Security) - Maritime Law Enforcement, Coastal Defense, Search and Rescue; operates in international and US waters, and US Customs and Border Protection.

 

 

Quote

 

BUT, the Feds can intervene in a specific jurisdiction granted by law - like at ports of entry. The state cannot interfere with the Feds at the port, and if the Feds say you are not disembarking or taking on people at our ports, no one but the Feds can change that. The party the governor belongs to has no bearing on when the Feds say you can disembark people.

 

The party the Governor belongs to, and the "police state" powers that each Governor has enumerated, is and has clearly been 180 different in red versus blue states.  It would be naive to not note such.

 

It is within that spectrum that I was meriting Floridas' handling of the COVID 19 pandemic, experienced results and phased in re-opening.

 

That notation was, to bring it back to the original reason it was posted on CruiseCritic, is to infer the positive vibe that FLORIDA WILL LEAD THE WAY TOWARD CRUISING AGAIN.

 

Yikes.  

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5 hours ago, npcl said:

keep in mind that the economic figure is for both the cargo portion of the port as well as the cruise port. the majority of the jobs and economic impact is from the cargo side.  for all ports in Florida Cargo port impact 70 billion, cruise side 7 billion.

 

We, CLIA reports for 2019, the Florida cruise industry impacts for 2019 accounted for 154,646 Total Employment Impact, $7,689,000,000 in Total Wage Impact and $8,485,000,000 in other Direct Expenditures.

 

https://cruising.org/-/media/research-updates/research/contribution-of-the-international-cruise-industry-to-the-us-economy-2018.pdf

 

Page 45

 

So, regarding the post, I still maintain that cruise ports in Florida will lead the way and that such ports are very important economic revenue sources for such ports' cities and the state of Florida.

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On 5/18/2020 at 12:29 AM, BirdTravels said:

Crew members sign contracts. Many companies have NDAs, contracts or codes of conduct which limit what an employee of that company can say about their employer. My company does. And I have to reaffirm my understanding and agreement to those terms annually.

 

The crew are not frightened or powerless, unless you believe the fake news that the mainstream media puts out to sensationalize situations to get web clicks (that's how they get advertisers). Are the crew tired of sitting in a port and not being able to get off the ship,,,, sure. Do they want to go home if their contract is over,,,, sure. Who is to blame,,,, the United States of America, not the cruise line. The cruise lines had charter flights and private transportation all set up,,, until the USA said "here's some unfulfillable terms and conditions for disembarkation". And it is the same for all cruise lines, not just NCL. 

My guess (only a guess mind you) is our elected officials don't have enough money interest in the cruise industry. If the powers in Washington were loosing money they would have gotten these issues settled ASAP. Sorry but it is an election year and all American's know these years are our worse. After Nov. we should see a dramatic turn around with everything. We re-booked for next year on NCL and Princess in 2022 + our NCL yearly Bermuda trip 2022 as well.

So take heart everybody stay safe and live to sail another day.

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We had already decided to cancel our April 2021 cruise on the Breakaway and probably reschedule if the expected winter

20/2021 Corona season was not too bad or didn't happen at all. 

 

After reading this article our chances of rescheduling are down from about 60% to maybe 20%. I am not sure I could enjoy cruising knowing what many of the great crew members had been through.

 

As for this being a "doom and gloom" article among many, if you have a doom and gloom situation the coverage should be doom and gloom.           

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Formula280SS said:

 

We, CLIA reports for 2019, the Florida cruise industry impacts for 2019 accounted for 154,646 Total Employment Impact, $7,689,000,000 in Total Wage Impact and $8,485,000,000 in other Direct Expenditures.

 

https://cruising.org/-/media/research-updates/research/contribution-of-the-international-cruise-industry-to-the-us-economy-2018.pdf

 

Page 45

 

So, regarding the post, I still maintain that cruise ports in Florida will lead the way and that such ports are very important economic revenue sources for such ports' cities and the state of Florida.

Yes and the Cargo side accounts for more than 10 times that number

 

http://scdn.flaports.org/wp-content/uploads/EconomicImpactsofFloridaSeaports.pdf

This report is from 2016 so the totals for all categories are a bit higher now, but they do give the relationship between the cargo and cruise side.

2016

Economic impact                    Cargo 105 billion    Cruise  7 billion

State and local taxes paid    Cargo   4 billion     Cruise  213 million

Jobs    Port Sector                 Cargo   97,000       Cruise   42,000

Jobs   Total impact                Cargo  761,000      Cruise  138,000

 

Looks like if cruising went away the state would get more economic impact converting the port space to cargo functions.

 

 

Edited by npcl

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Posted (edited)
On 5/17/2020 at 3:21 PM, BirdTravels said:

Blame the United States of America’s who won’t let the crew get to their flights (which were all arranged). I would think that it is low risk to take crew directly from the ships via bus to the commenter/charter terminal (not normal passenger terminal) and control the crew there and get them on the way. 

Actually the US will let them board their flights, as long as the cruise lines sign the documents and follow the procedures.  Several lines have repatriated crew that way. 

 

The current list is at:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/cruise-ship/cruise-ship-member-disembarkations.html

 

On the other hand you have examples, such as 

 

https://www.heraldmailmedia.com/news/nation/cruise-lines-finally-repatriating-workers-stranded-by-covid-19-not-everyone-is-happy/article_a3eb0214-ed64-5d8c-bcb2-20a0da704288.html

 

And in Grenada, the country’s prime minister and tourism minister have lashed out at cruise companies, accusing them of violating an agreement to contribute toward the cost of quarantine for their returning workers.

 

The “government is now single-handedly bearing the cost of almost ($74,000 US) to provide these facilities because the cruise lines have not accepted responsibility, despite earlier agreement to do so,” Prime Minister Keith Mitchell said in a national address Sunday.

 

After telling crew members for weeks that the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had banned crew repatriation flights, Royal Caribbean executives finally agreed on May 3 to sign the required legal agreement with the agency to repatriate crew on charter flights.

 

 

Edited by npcl

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2 hours ago, npcl said:

Yes and the Cargo side accounts for more than 10 times that number

 

Looks like if cruising went away the state would get more economic impact converting the port space to cargo functions.

 

Yikes, the post was about Florida leading the way with cruises returning. 

 

Now you want their cruise ports to be closed forever to make more money for cargo functions?  Yikes. 

 

Not interest in continuing any dialogue. 

 

Thank you.

 

Will stick with my own position.

 

CLIA reports for 2019, the Florida cruise industry impacts for 2019 accounted for 154,646 Total Employment Impact, $7,689,000,000 in Total Wage Impact and $8,485,000,000 in other Direct Expenditures.

 

https://cruising.org/-/media/research-updates/research/contribution-of-the-international-cruise-industry-to-the-us-economy-2018.pdf

 

Page 45

 

So, regarding the post, I still maintain that cruise ports in Florida will lead the way and that such ports are very important economic revenue sources for such ports' cities and the state of Florida.

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On 5/18/2020 at 4:27 AM, Formula280SS said:

 

Sorry, but the US was requiring the cruise line management and governance to be criminally and civilly and personal liable for any crew member related spread of C19 upon transfer from US ports.  That's why they (all of the lines) left a couple weeks ago to task up at their private islands and plan for alternate way to get crew home.

Actually they are not holding the cruise line management and governance to be criminally and civilly liable for personally liable for any crew member related spread upon transfer from US ports.

 

They are requiring cruise line executives to certify that certain steps are taken and that the crew members that are transferred have been informed of the requirements of the transfer. As indicated they are required to inform crew members in the US that they must stay home for 14 days.  That does not mean that they are legally at risk if the crew member neglects to do so.  As long as they can show that the crew member was informed.

 

I suspect that one of the largest hurdles is the requirement for the cruise lines to share medical information with the CDC and to segregate those exposed to COVID from those that have not been, at a time when the cruise lines have 1. Not been testing the personnel on their ships 2. telling crew members that it is colds and normal flu instead of COVID .

 

This is a risk to the cruise lines because they do not want information about the presence of COVID among the crew on ships to be made public through an official government agency with the corresponding bad publicity nor do they want to have to do things that would even more signal to the crew that the cruiselines have not exactly been forth coming to them about COVID-19.  They certainly do not have to submit test results.  They have pretty much been avoiding the tests. No test - no confirmed COVID.

 

 

 

Those requirements are stated below

 

By signing the attestation form, cruise ship operators agree to follow specific conditions that are designed to allow crew to safely disembark while protecting public health, including the following:

  • Arrange to transport crew members to their final destination (US or overseas) by industry-chartered private transport, industry-chartered private flights, or personal vehicles (no rental cars, taxis, or ride-share services) with measures in place to ensure neither those involved in transport nor other members of the public are exposed to the disembarking individuals.
  • Screen disembarking crew members for symptoms of COVID-19.
  • Ensure crew members with known exposures to COVID-19 are transported separately from those with no known exposure.
  • Provide face coverings, such as a cloth face covering, to disembarking crew members or confirm that they have their own face coverings.
  • Instruct disembarking crew members to stay home for 14 days and continue to practice social distancing after reaching their final destination.
  • Ensure disembarking crew members:
    • will not stay overnight in a hotel before the flight or at any point until they reach their final destination
    • will not use public transportation (including taxis, rental cars or ride-share services) to get to the airport/charter flight
    • will not enter the public airport terminal
    • will not take commercial aircraft after an initial charter flight
    • will not have a transportation layover exceeding 8 hours
    • will not have interaction with the public during their travel home or to their new duty station (e.g., rental car companies, restaurants, other public areas)

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Formula280SS said:

 

Yikes, the post was about Florida leading the way with cruises returning. 

 

Now you want their cruise ports to be closed forever to make more money for cargo functions?  Yikes. 

 

Not interest in continuing any dialogue. 

 

Thank you.

 

Will stick with my own position.

 

CLIA reports for 2019, the Florida cruise industry impacts for 2019 accounted for 154,646 Total Employment Impact, $7,689,000,000 in Total Wage Impact and $8,485,000,000 in other Direct Expenditures.

 

https://cruising.org/-/media/research-updates/research/contribution-of-the-international-cruise-industry-to-the-us-economy-2018.pdf

 

Page 45

 

So, regarding the post, I still maintain that cruise ports in Florida will lead the way and that such ports are very important economic revenue sources for such ports' cities and the state of Florida.

Yep they do generate economic gains, but the cargo ships even more.  Don't have interest in the ports closing down, only pointing out that the 7 billion number from the cruise lines is not as large as it seems even compared to other port activity.

Not even 10 percent of the cargo side.

 

Also keep in mind that Florida is a 1 trillion dollar economy.  The 7 billion generated by the cruise industry there is not even 1 percent of the states economy.  Given a choice of getting the rest of the economy opened up, or attracting people to travel to Florida (potentially bringing COVID-19 along, to board cruise ships, I suspect that the cruise ports will be rather further down their priority list.

 

The decision rather or not to open will reside with CDC, which will largely depend upon how open and consistent the cruise lines are in dealing with them in providing COVID-19 case info.

 

If you are not interested in continuing the dialogue then stop posting about it.  Otherwise you post your view and I will mine. You were making the case that Florid would open because of the value of the ports.  I was just pointing out it is not as large as your initial post about the port of Miami indicated.

 

The CDC has provided the reason why they are requiring the steps that they have on their web site.  To put it in their terms

 

At this time, given the limited availability of testing onboard ships and inconsistent reporting from cruise ships, CDC does not have confirmation or evidence that any cruise ship is free of COVID-19

Edited by npcl

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, npcl said:

Yep they do generate economic gains, but the cargo ships even more.  Don't have interest in the ports closing down, only pointing out that the 7 billion number from the cruise lines is not as large as it seems even compared to other port activity.

 Of course you suggested it would be better for them without the cruise lines; opting for the cargo business.

 

You stated "Looks like if cruising went away the state would get more economic impact converting the port space to cargo functions."

Quote

Not even 10 percent of the cargo side.

 

Also keep in mind that Florida is a 1 trillion dollar economy.  The 7 billion generated by the cruise industry there is not even 1 percent of the states economy.  Given a choice of getting the rest of the economy opened up, or attracting people to travel to Florida (potentially bringing COVID-19 along, to board cruise ships, I suspect that the cruise ports will be rather further down their priority list.

 

The decision rather or not to open will reside with CDC, which will largely depend upon how open and consistent the cruise lines are in dealing with them in providing COVID-19 case info.

Well, now you agree?  The CDC is the Federal Government is it not?  It is a United States federal agency, under the Department of Health and Human Services.

 

You stated "No, that's not how this works. The Federal government has no police powers for health issues"

Quote

 

If you are not interested in continuing the dialogue then stop posting about it.  Otherwise you post your view and I will mine. You were making the case that Florid would open because of the value of the ports.  And, that the actions taken by RED state Florida would be why.  Selective memory or response?

 

I was just pointing out it is not as large as your initial post about the port of Miami indicated.  Actually, you did not.  You posted about what other industry values are.  If you do not believe $16 billion is an important economic contributor, that's fine.

 

The CDC has provided the reason why they are requiring the steps that they have on their web site.  To put it in their terms

 

At this time, given the limited availability of testing onboard ships and inconsistent reporting from cruise ships, CDC does not have confirmation or evidence that any cruise ship is free of COVID-19

 

The CDC does not, and will never have, confirmation or evidence that any thing or being, like you for example, is "free of COVID 19."

 

Will stick with my own position.

 

CLIA reports for 2019, the Florida cruise industry impacts for 2019 accounted for 154,646 Total Employment Impact, $7,689,000,000 in Total Wage Impact and $8,485,000,000 in other Direct Expenditures.

 

https://cruising.org/-/media/research-updates/research/contribution-of-the-international-cruise-industry-to-the-us-economy-2018.pdf

 

Page 45

 

So, regarding the post, I still maintain that cruise ports in Florida will lead the way and that such ports are very important economic revenue sources for such ports' cities and the state of Florida.

Edited by Formula280SS

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1 hour ago, npcl said:

Actually they are not holding the cruise line management and governance to be criminally and civilly liable for personally liable for any crew member related spread upon transfer from US ports.

 

https://www.radicalcompliance.com/2020/05/04/cruise-lines-face-covid-19-compliance-squeeze/

 

"The CDC had proposed a plan to allow the cruise line employees to leave, but it wasn’t easy: no employees taking public transportation home, no employees staying at hotels, and no employees mixing with the public generally while they disembarked. The kicker: each cruise line’s CEO, chief medical officer, and chief compliance officer would also need to attest that all employees would meet those terms, or risk civil and criminal sanctions"

 

 

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2 hours ago, Formula280SS said:

 

https://www.radicalcompliance.com/2020/05/04/cruise-lines-face-covid-19-compliance-squeeze/

 

"The CDC had proposed a plan to allow the cruise line employees to leave, but it wasn’t easy: no employees taking public transportation home, no employees staying at hotels, and no employees mixing with the public generally while they disembarked. The kicker: each cruise line’s CEO, chief medical officer, and chief compliance officer would also need to attest that all employees would meet those terms, or risk civil and criminal sanctions"

 

 

Yes they would but let me also give you the CDC's own words on that 

 

Requiring a signed attestation helps ensure that the information provided by cruise officials as a condition of disembarking or transferring crew is truthful and accurate. By signing the legal attestation documents, cruise line officials certify that the information they provided to CDC is truthful and accurate. If the information is not truthful and accurate, these officials are subject to the criminal penalty provisions of 18 U.S.C. § 1001. It is common to ask corporate officials in other settings to certify that statements made to the U.S. Government on behalf of the corporate entity are true and correct, such as in a Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) filing or when seeking payment reimbursement under Medicare.

 

 

As far as when the legal penalties would apply they state only if  the information is not true and accurate

 

CDC requires cruise lines to sign an attestation form to verify that the information they provide to CDC is true and accurate. Legal penalties would only be applied if the cruise line knowingly submitted a false statement, which could pose further risk to the public’s health.

 

A far different comment then your claim above that they  Lets  see how you put it

Formula280SS

Sorry, but the US was requiring the cruise line management and governance to be criminally and civilly and personal liable for any crew member related spread of C19 upon transfer from US ports.  That's why they (all of the lines) left a couple weeks ago to task up at their private islands and plan for alternate way to get crew home.

 

Nothing in the CDC requirements about being personally liable for any crew member related spread of COVID.

They are liable for not telling the truth in the attestation and I can see how that goes against the character of some of the cruiseline execs.  But as I posted earlier the CDc is maintaining a roster of all of the cases where they have signed them

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Formula280SS said:

 Of course you suggested it would be better for them without the cruise lines; opting for the cargo business.

 

You stated "Looks like if cruising went away the state would get more economic impact converting the port space to cargo functions."

Well, now you agree?  The CDC is the Federal Government is it not?  It is a United States federal agency, under the Department of Health and Human Services.

 

You stated "No, that's not how this works. The Federal government has no police powers for health issues"

 

The CDC does not, and will never have, confirmation or evidence that any thing or being, like you for example, is "free of COVID 19."

 

Will stick with my own position.

 

CLIA reports for 2019, the Florida cruise industry impacts for 2019 accounted for 154,646 Total Employment Impact, $7,689,000,000 in Total Wage Impact and $8,485,000,000 in other Direct Expenditures.

 

https://cruising.org/-/media/research-updates/research/contribution-of-the-international-cruise-industry-to-the-us-economy-2018.pdf

 

Page 45

 

So, regarding the post, I still maintain that cruise ports in Florida will lead the way and that such ports are very important economic revenue sources for such ports' cities and the state of Florida.

You should really get your attributions correct you seem for some reason to think that I said things that were really part of your discussion with FSHAGAN

 

For example I never said anything about "No, that's not how this works. The Federal government has no police powers for health issues" tha t was FSHAGAN as you could easily find.

 

I also never said that CDC was not part of the federal government, nor was I a participant in the red state portion of the discussion.

 

So let me remind you.

 

I entered the discussion when you stated that the port of Miami was dead without cruise in post 7 and referenced the 43 billion impact to the state of Florida.

 

To which I responded in post 35 that the port was also a cargo port that the cargo portion had more economic impact. 

 

To which you went away from the port of Miami and listed the state wide impact of cruise industry in post 38

 

To which I also went state wide to point out in post 41 the relative impact of cargo on the state compared to Cruise industry.

I did make the point that Florida could quite easily survive without the cruise industry and could actually get more growth converting the cruise ports to cargo ports

 

Which of course you jumped in posts 43 with your yikes comment that the discussion was about Florida leading the way (funny you brought up port economics first) and somehow saying I wanted cruise ports to close because I indicated that Florida did have other options. Which of course a 1 trillion dollar economy does.

 

Now your last post seems to have gone somewhat off the rails confusing FSHAGAN and my posts.

 

So at least please keep the posters straight otherwise it comes a cross as a bit erratic.

Edited by npcl

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While it is certainly not pleasant for the crew to be quarantined on the ships consider:  Many of their home countries will not take them back in.  Many countries such as Thailand have suspended all flights in or out.  Finally, can you imagine the logistical nightmare it would be to spread thousands of people around the globe and then when the cruise lines are ready to sail get them all back in time for the cruise departure.  A cruise line can deal with a few crew members that don't show up for a given cruise.  They could not operate if crew members either chose not to return or due to logistic problems were unable to return. 

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