Starting cruising again question

[beerman2]

22 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

Ships are currently staffed in accordance with maritime regulations. In time, Carnival will begin to staff hotel operational positions when they are ready. Carnival plans to resume sailing in November and they remain confident in that date — or sooner.

According to the article about NCLH cool lay up they aren't at maritime regulations and will need some recertifications /surveys done before allowed to sail again.

 

And have sent more crew home.

[xDisconnections]

2 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

According to the article about NCLH cool lay up they aren't at maritime regulations and will need some recertifications /surveys done before allowed to sail again.

 

And have sent more crew home.

Do you have a link?

 

@chengkp75 any chance you can elaborate on the current staffing situation and what must be done prior to bringing a ship back into service?

[beerman2]

20 hours ago, GA Dave said:

Based on the competitors, it is not looking good.

 

NCLH Ships Go Cool Lay Manning

Here you go x disc

[beerman2]

2 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

Do you have a link?

 

@chengkp75 any chance you can elaborate on the current staffing situation and what must be done prior to bringing a ship back into service?

Chengkp75 did elaborate, can't remember what thread it was, it was he who talked about recertification/surveys etc.

 

Maybe search Chengkp75 posts???

[xDisconnections]

8 hours ago, mpdog42 said:

And where are the going to get the staff??

They’ll reach out to their international recruiting agencies or previous employees. Many are also waiting future assignments and are currently on standby. They won’t need to bring onboard the same amount of employees as in the past due to limited capacity. 
 

How are all of the companies who enacted mass layoffs or closures in your local economy responding to a rebound?

Edited September 2, 2020 by xDisconnections

[xDisconnections]

11 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

Here you go x disc

 

8 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

Chengkp75 did elaborate, can't remember what thread it was, it was he who talked about recertification/surveys etc.

 

Maybe search Chengkp75 posts???

The link you provided only discusses more employees being sent home. As they are not needed to assume the operations while being anchored off shore, there’s no reason for them to be onboard. As long as the minimum manning is onboard and there weren’t any certifications due during the time the ship was laid up, what’s the issue?

 

It doesn’t discuss any certifications or inspections that will be necessary as you suggested.

Edited September 2, 2020 by xDisconnections

[beerman2]

9 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

 

The link you provided only discusses more employees being sent home. As they are not needed to assume the operations while being anchored off shore, there’s no reason for them to be onboard. As long as the minimum manning is onboard and there weren’t any certifications due during the time the ship was laid up, what’s the issue?

 

It doesn’t discuss any certifications or inspections that will be necessary as you suggested.

Chengkp75 explained all about the cool lay up and what needs to be done.

Just can’t remember if it was on NCL or Carnival thread.

 

As always he did come through

Edited September 2, 2020 by beerman2

[beerman2]

35 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

Do you have a link?

 

@chengkp75 any chance you can elaborate on the current staffing situation and what must be done prior to bringing a ship back into service?

Cool Lay Up by Laszlo on NCL board , post #14 Chengkp75 .

[GA Dave]

57 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

 

The link you provided only discusses more employees being sent home. As they are not needed to assume the operations while being anchored off shore, there’s no reason for them to be onboard. As long as the minimum manning is onboard and there weren’t any certifications due during the time the ship was laid up, what’s the issue?

 

It doesn’t discuss any certifications or inspections that will be necessary as you suggested.

As mentioned, post #14.

 

NCLH Cool Layups

[xDisconnections]

36 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

Cool Lay Up by Laszlo on NCL board , post #14 Chengkp75 .

 

3 minutes ago, GA Dave said:

As mentioned, post #14.

 

NCLH Cool Layups

Thanks for the link. I never visit the NCL boards as it's a cruise line I have zero interest sailing on.

 

Based on the article and link you provided, @beerman2, have the cruise lines given you any reason to suspect they are not in compliance with the minimum manning as you stated they are not following maritime regulations? The article didn't exactly state that information.

 

The post you quoted was directly referencing shipboard employment levels -- not certifications. As noted in post #31, any certifications during a lapse of service in addition to the bottom survey as noted by the post you linked from cheng would be important factors for sailings to resume but the cruise lines are still able to recruit and transport their employees while that is under review.

[beerman2]

1 hour ago, xDisconnections said:

 

Thanks for the link. I never visit the NCL boards as it's a cruise line I have zero interest sailing on.

 

Based on the article and link you provided, @beerman2, have the cruise lines given you any reason to suspect they are not in compliance with the minimum manning as you stated they are not following maritime regulations? The article didn't exactly state that information.

 

The post you quoted was directly referencing shipboard employment levels -- not certifications. As noted in post #31, any certifications during a lapse of service in addition to the bottom survey as noted by the post you linked from cheng would be important factors for sailings to resume but the cruise lines are still able to recruit and transport their employees while that is under review.

Maybe I'm reading /interpreting wrong , but why if they were within staffing numbers to be in compliance there would be no need for any recertification/surveys.

 

At least that's what I understood it to be. I could very well be wrong I will have to go back and read it again.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by beerman2

[xDisconnections]

On 9/1/2020 at 12:42 PM, xDisconnections said:

Ships are currently staffed in accordance with maritime regulations. 

 

2 hours ago, beerman2 said:

According to the article about NCLH cool lay up they aren't at maritime regulations and will need some recertifications /surveys done before allowed to sail again.

 

12 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

Maybe I'm reading /interpreting wrong , but why if they were within staffing numbers to be in compliance there would be no need for any recertification/surveys.

 

At least that's what I understood it to be. I could very well be wrong I will have to go back and read it again.

 

 

Above. Was this thread's topic not about staffing?

 

How does one correlate with the other assuming the minimum manning is not in violation? The cruise lines still have people working onboard... have they given us a reason to believe they are not in compliance? The only way a certification would be needed is if one was due while the ship was in cold layup which wouldn't directly impact the recruitment process. The bottom survey wouldn't necessary be a requirement as per the linked comment.

Edited September 2, 2020 by xDisconnections

[beerman2]

2 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

 

 

Above. Was this thread's topic not about staffing?

 

How does one correlate with the other assuming the minimum manning is not in violation? The cruise lines still have people working onboard... have they given us a reason to believe they are not in compliance? The only way a certification would be needed is if one was due while the ship was in cold layup which wouldn't directly impact the recruitment process. The bottom survey wouldn't necessary be a requirement as per the linked comment.

Never mind , we are comprehending this different as I've already stated. 

 

You WIN!

[skridge]

16 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

Things change.

 

Carnival is confident this time. 

Things haven't changed.  Carnival has been confident every time.  Carnivals confidence and a nickel won't buy you a cup of coffee.

[Grandmam58]

We have a 15 day to Hawaii end of Nov.  I am already planning on a cancelation since San Fran has canceled rest of 2020, can't see San Diego as a go.  Thinking some time in 2021

 

 

[coevan]

Hawaii is not allowing U.S. mainland people in their state. they still have a mandatory 14 day quarantine 

[xDisconnections]

On 9/2/2020 at 2:36 AM, mpdog42 said:

Checks in the mail.....I love you...etc....

Are you suggesting Carnival is acting deceitful by insinuating they have zero intentions of cruising while still accepting reservations and taking payment?

 

Not my Carnival 👀

Edited September 3, 2020 by xDisconnections

[chengkp75]

16 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

 

 

Above. Was this thread's topic not about staffing?

 

How does one correlate with the other assuming the minimum manning is not in violation? The cruise lines still have people working onboard... have they given us a reason to believe they are not in compliance? The only way a certification would be needed is if one was due while the ship was in cold layup which wouldn't directly impact the recruitment process. The bottom survey wouldn't necessary be a requirement as per the linked comment.

Okay, I was resisting posting here, but here goes.  Both the flag state's "Document of Inspection" (which is required for the vessel to sail under that nation's flag) and the class society's "Certificate of Class" depend on there being a statutory minimum manning level oboard.  Once this minimum manning is no longer maintained, these two documents become invalid, and the ship cannot operate.  Now, as to bottom surveys and drydockings, once the "Certificate of Class" ends, all the subordinate surveys and certificates issued by the class society become null and void as well, and will need to be reissued once the ship re-mans to the statutory level.  This will include the Safety Construction Cert, the Annual Hull and Machinery Certs, the Bottom Survey, and the Special Hull and Machinery Certs, which are 5 year documents and require not only the annuals to be kept up, but additional surveys and inspections that include underwater machinery, and inspections of hull welds and steel thickness testing.  Now, depending on the ship, and the pre-lay up schedule of surveys and certificates, the class society may waive some inspections (if they were recently done), but will almost universally require a drydock inspection of the hull, especially for any ship older than 10 years.

 

The article about NCL going to "cool" lay up mentions reducing manning below the statutory minimums, so in those cases, all class and flag state certificates become "inactive" and must be reissued when the ship becomes active again.

[beerman2]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Okay, I was resisting posting here, but here goes.  Both the flag state's "Document of Inspection" (which is required for the vessel to sail under that nation's flag) and the class society's "Certificate of Class" depend on there being a statutory minimum manning level oboard.  Once this minimum manning is no longer maintained, these two documents become invalid, and the ship cannot operate.  Now, as to bottom surveys and drydockings, once the "Certificate of Class" ends, all the subordinate surveys and certificates issued by the class society become null and void as well, and will need to be reissued once the ship re-mans to the statutory level.  This will include the Safety Construction Cert, the Annual Hull and Machinery Certs, the Bottom Survey, and the Special Hull and Machinery Certs, which are 5 year documents and require not only the annuals to be kept up, but additional surveys and inspections that include underwater machinery, and inspections of hull welds and steel thickness testing.  Now, depending on the ship, and the pre-lay up schedule of surveys and certificates, the class society may waive some inspections (if they were recently done), but will almost universally require a drydock inspection of the hull, especially for any ship older than 10 years.

 

The article about NCL going to "cool" lay up mentions reducing manning below the statutory minimums, so in those cases, all class and flag state certificates become "inactive" and must be reissued when the ship becomes active again.

Thank you for the in depth analysts. You're expertise is enlightening and appreciated by most here. 

[xDisconnections]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Okay, I was resisting posting here, but here goes.  Both the flag state's "Document of Inspection" (which is required for the vessel to sail under that nation's flag) and the class society's "Certificate of Class" depend on there being a statutory minimum manning level oboard.  Once this minimum manning is no longer maintained, these two documents become invalid, and the ship cannot operate.  Now, as to bottom surveys and drydockings, once the "Certificate of Class" ends, all the subordinate surveys and certificates issued by the class society become null and void as well, and will need to be reissued once the ship re-mans to the statutory level.  This will include the Safety Construction Cert, the Annual Hull and Machinery Certs, the Bottom Survey, and the Special Hull and Machinery Certs, which are 5 year documents and require not only the annuals to be kept up, but additional surveys and inspections that include underwater machinery, and inspections of hull welds and steel thickness testing.  Now, depending on the ship, and the pre-lay up schedule of surveys and certificates, the class society may waive some inspections (if they were recently done), but will almost universally require a drydock inspection of the hull, especially for any ship older than 10 years.

 

The article about NCL going to "cool" lay up mentions reducing manning below the statutory minimums, so in those cases, all class and flag state certificates become "inactive" and must be reissued when the ship becomes active again.

 

1 hour ago, beerman2 said:

Thank you for the in depth analysts. You're expertise is enlightening and appreciated by most here. 

Thanks for the additional details to make it easier to understand what is really happening here! 

[xDisconnections]

On 9/1/2020 at 12:35 PM, brenderlou said:

 

I’ve read that we won’t start cruising until crew are back on board. Anyone with any insight to when this will happen? I have a Thanksgiving Cruise I so don’t want cancelled!!!!!!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

OP, if it makes you feel better, I just received a job notification in my area for American Cruise Lines in the 2021 Season. Carnival is probably going to start their recruitment process soon.

 

[Cushing985]

I think it's a foregone conclusion that cruising out of US ports, isn't an option in 2020.

[beachbum53]

After doing some searching on GOOGLE, I found this list of ships (and itineraries) scheduled to start cruising in November 2020. It was provided by the fine folks right here on Cruise Critic.   https://www.cruisecritic.com/cruiseto/cruiseitineraries.cfm?cl=8&startDate=2020-11   I realize that schedules are subject to change without advanced notice. but, this information may be helpful to some of you. 

Edited September 4, 2020 by beachbum53

[sw33twif3]

After being cancelled twice by Carnival for fall cruising (1st on the Mardi Gras, and the 2nd my rebook on the Magic), I've decided not to take a chance on 2020. I've rebooked for April 2021 on the Glory from my home port of New Orleans. No travel out of state to get to a ship. Just cross the Crescent City Connection on an Uber and board the ship. 

 

I think that will be safe...

[sw33twif3]

Another thought about crews: Carnival has sold or put to scrap at least two of the smaller ships. And they may not have all ships sailing in 2020. That will alleviate some of their needs for extensive crews. As ships come online through 2021, I'm sure they will be planning ahead for crewing those ships.