Healthy Sail Panel Recommendations

[BermudaBound2014]

5 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

My hope for cruising is they are at least as strict with masks as they are at ensuring you pay your bill.  And they don't use the same enforcement strategy as they do with poolside chair use!

 

I watched a video of a White Party night on MSC grandiosa's second voyage. Zero social distancing, and I counted 7 people without masks in the midst of the party and another 4 sitting at a table off to the side without masks (no one was around them). There were also photos of servers without masks, but they had face shields. If you are a person who insists everyone wear a mask, I just don't see that happening on a cruise, ever. And, of course, those who are vulnerable should be wearing a N95.

[JamieLogical]

22 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

 

I also laugh at those wearing masks while driving or even walking down the roadside with no people anywhere in sight!  

 

 

I sometimes keep my mask on while driving if I am running errands and stopping at multiple stores just down the street from each other. Of course, I don't find wearing a mask to be the pure, unadulterated torture that half the country seems to, so I don't waste the effort of taking my mask off and putting it back on again between quick stops.

[Ryanryanryan]

37 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I watched a video of a White Party night on MSC grandiosa's second voyage. Zero social distancing, and I counted 7 people without masks in the midst of the party and another 4 sitting at a table off to the side without masks (no one was around them). There were also photos of servers without masks, but they had face shields. If you are a person who insists everyone wear a mask, I just don't see that happening on a cruise, ever. And, of course, those who are vulnerable should be wearing a N95.

 

Perfect!  Just the way it should be!

[GA Dave]

1 hour ago, PelicanBill said:

 

I also laugh at those wearing masks while driving or even walking down the roadside with no people anywhere in sight!  

But stores are in catch-22 with people ignoring rules and not wearing masks still. And they tell employees not to provoke a confrontation for their safety. 

 

My hope for cruising is they are at least as strict with masks as they are at ensuring you pay your bill.  And they don't use the same enforcement strategy as they do with poolside chair use!

 

(A vaccine and end to mask wearing is even better.)

 

They could be like the airlines.  Last I saw, Delta has already banned over 350 people from flying for not wearing a mask.  Several airlines have returned flights to the gate and made people leave the aircraft for violating the rules as well. 

Maybe the cruise lines can bring back "walking the plank"!  😄

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, PelicanBill said:

 

I also laugh at those wearing masks while driving or even walking down the roadside with no people anywhere in sight!  

But stores are in catch-22 with people ignoring rules and not wearing masks still. And they tell employees not to provoke a confrontation for their safety. 

 

My hope for cruising is they are at least as strict with masks as they are at ensuring you pay your bill.  And they don't use the same enforcement strategy as they do with poolside chair use!

 

(A vaccine and end to mask wearing is even better.)

 

Fauchi says that even with a vaccine in late 2020, you'll still be wearing masks and socially distancing to at least the end of 2021.  Is there no end to this?

[PelicanBill]

5 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Fauchi says that even with a vaccine in late 2020, you'll still be wearing masks and socially distancing to at least the end of 2021.  Is there no end to this?

 

Yea I saw that.  Seems it will depend on measured efficacy, plus how many get the vaccine.  For me, if the vaccine will mitigate the disease if I get it, like the flu vaccine often does, I will be willing to tolerate the risk of less mask wearing and social distance.  But I am quite sure this is going well into next year!

[Trimone]

Do you think the CDC are going to allow cruises? No chance

[Vacationdreamer<><]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

my local walmart's have removed the one way signage on the aisles in their stores.

YES!  As of yesterday, I noticed this at my Walmart too.  We've had to line up outside since early April in a cordoned off area with a security guard at the beginning of the line.  Today it was gone.  Then, DD16 and I noticed all the one-way signage was gone.  

[Vacationdreamer<><]

2 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

I don't find wearing a mask to be the pure, unadulterated torture

 

That's funny.  Made me smile.
I do consider them extremely miserable and though I follow the law, I won't voluntarily wear them one second longer than I have to.  I actually cut down my work schedule this summer (per diem) because - I've learned - you can't pay me to wear them.  😂

[bigwawao]

I too agree that NYC covid test turnover is pretty quick.  Didn't know that NYS was lagging somewhat.

If the need for a 5 day covid test is required just to enter the cruise terminal,  I am sure laboratories in port cities will spring up with quick covid tests.  Question is how much are they and are you willing to pay for it.

 

Note that I read somewhere that MSC europe has covid machines that can run 300 test in 1 hour.  10 machines means 3000 tests.  it can be done. Ask MSC where they got those machines.  I am trying but could not find the link.

 

As of now, let us all be clear that UNTIL the individual cruise lines post in black and white their individual protocols,  all that CLIA and Healthy sail initiative is, until then,  just smoke and mirrors.

[roger001]

36 minutes ago, Vacationdreamer<>< said:

YES!  As of yesterday, I noticed this at my Walmart too.  We've had to line up outside since early April in a cordoned off area with a security guard at the beginning of the line.  Today it was gone.  Then, DD16 and I noticed all the one-way signage was gone.  

Our local Walmart removed the one way signs but also did a complete remodeling of the store, relocating merchandise and then widening the isle by moving the display further apart.  Was quite a process.  Publix has a sign at entry saying masks are "required" to enter the store.  Doesn't say suggested.  However, our county removed the mask mandate for the county yesterday.  Went to Publix today and at least a dozen or more customers were wandering around without a mask looking smug.  The store personnel can't challenge them.   

 

[RocketMan275]

56 minutes ago, Vacationdreamer<>< said:

 

That's funny.  Made me smile.
I do consider them extremely miserable and though I follow the law, I won't voluntarily wear them one second longer than I have to.  I actually cut down my work schedule this summer (per diem) because - I've learned - you can't pay me to wear them.  😂

We put our masks on as we approach the door and remove them the first step we take outside.

We do not go where masks are required if at all possible.

If that means no cruises, then so be it.

Edited September 23, 2020 by RocketMan275

[JIMESOPUS]

New testing approved for NY .. https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/New-York-given-greenlight-for-widespread-mouth-15592149.php

[JAMESCC]

New testing approved for NY .. https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/New-York-given-greenlight-for-widespread-mouth-15592149.php

Man we needed that bad. The up the nose test has to go away. Mouth swab should be the norm already.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[bigwawao]

16 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

14 hours ago, JAMESCC said:

14 hours ago, JIMESOPUS said:

New testing approved for NY .. https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/New-York-given-greenlight-for-widespread-mouth-15592149.php

Yes but we can't self administer this- from a cruise standpoint.  Too many people who don't know how to do it properly and some who will/might/maybe do it improperly on purpose.  I am looking at this test from a cruising standpoint,.

 

 

[DCGuy64]

18 hours ago, Vacationdreamer<>< said:

 

That's funny.  Made me smile.
I do consider them extremely miserable and though I follow the law, I won't voluntarily wear them one second longer than I have to.  I actually cut down my work schedule this summer (per diem) because - I've learned - you can't pay me to wear them.  😂

Same here, I despise those things and I only wear them as much as the law requires, nothing more. First thing I do when I get into my car after running an errand is take that thing off! So uncomfortable, and if you're a man, you have to deal with that fuzzy fabric catching on your whiskers. I am not against doing what is necessary and/or legally required, but that's it. When I don't have to wear one, I don't. (wouldn't quite call it torture, though). My local gym only requires them when NOT exercising, so that's a good reason to keep exercising.

[RocketMan275]

3 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Same here, I despise those things and I only wear them as much as the law requires, nothing more. First thing I do when I get into my car after running an errand is take that thing off! So uncomfortable, and if you're a man, you have to deal with that fuzzy fabric catching on your whiskers. I am not against doing what is necessary and/or legally required, but that's it. When I don't have to wear one, I don't. (wouldn't quite call it torture, though). My local gym only requires them when NOT exercising, so that's a good reason to keep exercising.

My local gym requires them when entering the facility.  You have to wear a mask to walk through the door.  You scan your tag, take 10 steps forward, then you're in the 'actively exercising zone' where you can remove the mask.  While you remain in this zone, you don't have to wear a mask.  Funny thing, you can exist the zone and walk the ten steps to the door without replacing your mask.  I guess that makes sense.

[JIMESOPUS]

The cruise lines need this test to ensure everyone is OK before boarding. Would stink if you travel to get to the ship then denied boarding. https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2020/09/24/united-airlines-introduces-covid-19-rapid-testing-program-hawaii/3515043001/

 

[PelicanBill]

In-airport testing is one way we can handle travel needs. We need it in every airport though. That does not seem likely. But it also suggests mail-in, which isn't going to be reliable with the postal delays seen now. I was studying statistics on first-class mail delivery and 20% is delivered late.

 

The new test approved in NY has not started mass production and has no test processing outside one SUNY med center.  So it sounds great but has a long way to go. And it's not fast for positive results, it is fast only for negative results.  They pool tests so you test a bunch of people together, and if there is a positive test, all of those people must be tested again individually.

[Sue Do-Over]

On 9/21/2020 at 9:08 AM, PelicanBill said:

They clearly do not want to commit to doing 3000 tests and determine results while trying to handle embarkation. I can't imagine how you would manage it unless you stretched out the embarkation over 2 days.

 

The maturity of (reliability), and mass availability of, instant testing is not ready for this kind of use.

They'll also need to allow time/opportunity to retest Positives.  If an asymptomatic person tests positive, they should be able to demand another test (another type, or with a different staff person), and only be denied boarding if post are positive.

 

PLUS, would they wait to load luggage until those guests are cleared?  Person drops luggage at curb with porter, but then tests positive once or twice and is denied boarding.  How do they get their stuff back?  I have heard/read stories from people who forgot their passports (or packed them in checked bags) that were denied boarding.  'Someone' had to go find and pull their bags before the ship left the port.

 

The logistics...

[Sue Do-Over]

On 9/23/2020 at 4:45 PM, bigwawao said:

I too agree that NYC covid test turnover is pretty quick.  Didn't know that NYS was lagging somewhat.

If the need for a 5 day covid test is required just to enter the cruise terminal,  I am sure laboratories in port cities will spring up with quick covid tests.  Question is how much are they and are you willing to pay for it.

 

Note that I read somewhere that MSC europe has covid machines that can run 300 test in 1 hour.  10 machines means 3000 tests.  it can be done. Ask MSC where they got those machines.  I am trying but could not find the link.

Pooled testing could be completed that quickly.

40-50 samples combined, given one test.  If Negative, all those people are cleared to proceed.  If Positive, then they test each sample again. 

If you are an optimist, you believe that most people arriving for the cruise are healthy or at least symptomatic, which would theoretically mean that more pool-groups would be cleared quickly.  In contrast to a university or business place pooled test, where some people who aren't feeling well show up because they have to be there.

[PelicanBill]

I know! the logistics are troubling.  They have no ability to comb luggage for your 4 pieces to pull off.  And where do you wait and for how long when you are negative but in a group test that had a positive and you must be retested?  Every port needs a "maybe infected" room.  yikes!

[Sweetnspicy]

On 9/23/2020 at 2:15 PM, roger001 said:

Our local Walmart removed the one way signs but also did a complete remodeling of the store, relocating merchandise and then widening the isle by moving the display further apart.  Was quite a process.  Publix has a sign at entry saying masks are "required" to enter the store.  Doesn't say suggested.  However, our county removed the mask mandate for the county yesterday.  Went to Publix today and at least a dozen or more customers were wandering around without a mask looking smug.  The store personnel can't challenge them.   

 

It’s still a business that can enforce their own rules. It’s just not a mandate front the state any longer. The company I work for has required masks before our state had a mandate in June. In WA state it’s still a mandate and will likely stay that way through the winter months but my company has said mask wearing will continue from both employees and customers until next spring/summer. 

[hallux]

1 hour ago, Sweetnspicy said:

It’s still a business that can enforce their own rules

It is, but many also have employee guidelines regarding confrontation avoidance between them and customers.  The employees can ask nicely for the customer to wear their mask but if the person is already in the store they often won't be allowed to do much more than that.