Legal action against RCCL ramps up over White Island eruption

[The_Big_M]

4 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I would agree that "active volcano" should automatically trigger the danger sensor the way sky diving would. However part of duty of care is not to assume travellers are well informed and unfortunately there are a lot of ignorant travellers and cruising in particualr does tend to attract the type of traveller that doesn't do much research. That is part of the appeal of cruising, that everything is suppose to be done for you.

 

As for the increased activity, that is a bit tricky. This particular volcano has been at level 2 on and off for years with many tours having been conducted successfully. These levels are not a perfect indication and I suspect since there had not been an eruption for so long at level 2 there was probably a bit of complacency that this is perfectly normal.

 

The thing is tours have been operating for so long that it's reasonable for average people to think "Active volcano" doesn't mean dangerous. It just means say steam, like Rotorua.

 

And certainly the way RCL sold this, it was all about the excitement, and no mention of risk.

[The_Big_M]

1 hour ago, MicCanberra said:

Cruise lines are generally only the broker agent for these shorex's, that may well mean they have some duty of care but not necessarily at fault.

 

Bit more to it than that. They often have cruise staff along, the cruise line sell the benefits of "their" tours rather than private tours, and they do the sales work both online and onboard. When you book, your booking is with the cruise line, not the operator so the cruise lines does bare absolute responsibility to the customer (if the customer booked through them).

 

That said, the cruise line may have a cross-claim with the tour operator as to whether the tour operator told them true information and so on. But that's a separate case if it exists.

[By The Bay]

"WorkSafe New Zealand has filed charges against 13 parties over the White Island volcano tragedy in December last year.

 

WorkSafe NZ said those charged could not be identified as they had the right to seek a suppression order on their names at their first court appearance on December 15.

 

Ten parties face charges which carry a maximum fine of $NZ1.5 million under New Zealand's Health and Safety at Work Act." Full article on the ABC News website.

[NSWP]

1 hour ago, By The Bay said:

"WorkSafe New Zealand has filed charges against 13 parties over the White Island volcano tragedy in December last year.

 

WorkSafe NZ said those charged could not be identified as they had the right to seek a suppression order on their names at their first court appearance on December 15.

 

Ten parties face charges which carry a maximum fine of $NZ1.5 million under New Zealand's Health and Safety at Work Act." Full article on the ABC News website.

13 parties being 13 people I suppose. Owners and tour guides from White Island Tours, front and Centre and perhaps a few Royal Caribbean Tour Office staff, like the Ship's Tours Manager etc could be some of the 13 as well. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by NSWP

[lissie]

28 minutes ago, NSWP said:

13 parties being 13 people I suppose. Owners and tour guides from White Island Tours, front and Centre and perhaps a few Royal Caribbean Tour Office staff, like the Ship's Tours Manager etc could be some of the 13 as well. 

No 10 organizations and 3 individuals - who are presumably directors of some of those organizations.  It won't be cruise ship staff - they were just selling a product.  I'd been on White Island a few weeks  prior  to the eruption on the public tour and have looked at all the videos and photos - the tour they were on was the standard (and AFAIK) only tour that White Island tours - the boat tour operator under took. There was also a helicopter tour on the island ( all of whom survived with minor injuries) - they did a very similar walk to the boat tour. 

[lissie]

On 10/17/2020 at 12:10 PM, getting older slowly said:

It will be interesting.... but i feel  RC  should have told people... 

 

It is a live Volcano   and had been at level 2 since Nov 18th   inferring increase risk

 

as well as tour operators would have seen and noticed the increased cloud of gases...

 

We were on the island exactly a week before....  we were told of increased risk....

and that the pilot could abort landing and/or cut the tour short at any time...

we did walk to the crator and only spent a short time there.....

 

Part of the problem.. I noticed was the large group of people from the boat, all in long line... with no chance of moving quickly if needed.....

 

But these are just my thoughts.......  It was a risk... yes   but felt safe enough.....

 

and my thought go to the people who lost their life or were badly injured....... 

 

Don 

Yeah I'd wanted to do the trip since I was a geology student in the 80s. Finally did it on 13 Nov - was told it was a live volcano - was told to stay with the group an was told , and saw people  reprimanded, when they tried to wander off. 

 

I felt like  Iwas in a live volcano - maybe I know the risks better than most - but any volcano can erupt at any time - and the eruptions wasn't actually a big one - its just that humans are  particularly vulnerable to  any sized eruption. 

 

It was a magical trip -which made me badly ill on the way over (its a rough crossing) - and I'd do it again in a heart beat - but doubt that I'll get the chance. I think its beyond stupid to hold companies/individuals responsible for nature 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by lissie

[getting older slowly]

10 minutes ago, lissie said:

Yeah I'd wanted to do the trip since I was a geology student in the 80s. Finally did it on 13 Nov - was told it was a live volcano - was told to stay with the group an was told , and saw people  reprimanded, when they tried to wander off. 

 

I felt like  Iwas in a live volcano - maybe I know the risks better than most - but any volcano can erupt at any time - and the eruptions wasn't actually a big one - its just that humans are  particularly vulnerable to  any sized eruption. 

 

It was a magical trip -which made be badly ill on the way over (its a rough crossing) - and I'd do it again in a heart beat - but doubt that I'll get the chance. I think its beyond stupid to hold companies/individuals responsible for nature 

 

 

It was the better half's wish to see white island... it was amazing

But now realise.... that is was a greater risk than one thought..

 Don

 

taken about noon 2nd Dec 2019

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by getting older slowly

[NSWP]

Volcanic Air, the helicopter company that took tourists to the island has admitted to NZ media they are one of the parties charged.

 

The Barristers will profit, not sure about anyone else.

 

Personally I believe tour operators knew the imminent danger but still took folk out there on that fateful day and Lissie and Don in the weeks before, you guys could have been statistics too you know, saved by fate.

 

The $ rules.

Edited November 30, 2020 by NSWP

[lissie]

1 hour ago, NSWP said:

Volcanic Air, the helicopter company that took tourists to the island has admitted to NZ media they are one of the parties charged.

 

The Barristers will profit, not sure about anyone else.

 

Personally I believe tour operators knew the imminent danger but still took folk out there on that fateful day and Lissie and Don in the weeks before, you guys could have been statistics too you know, saved by fate.

 

The $ rules.

Disagree - its a type of volcano which is almost impossible to predict (unlike say Hawaii which is much easier to do so) .  The geologists didn't know - so I'm not entirely sure what special powers you think the tour operators had? 

 

No one else will profit except the lawyers.  The  victims are covered by our no-fault accident compensation system. Not sure if that continues for those who were moved overseas. 

[lissie]

1 hour ago, getting older slowly said:

 

It was the better half's wish to see white island... it was amazing

But now realise.... that is was a greater risk than one thought..

 Don

 

taken about noon 2nd Dec 2019

 

Wow a week before - looks exactly the same as it did when we were there in terms of steam etc. 

[getting older slowly]

2 hours ago, NSWP said:

Volcanic Air, the helicopter company that took tourists to the island has admitted to NZ media they are one of the parties charged.

 

We went with Aerius  from Tauranga, they did fly over tours of white island for Princess...  We had to book our flight direct with them.....  interestingly. our flight and walk around was cheaper than the princess fly over, as well as double the time

 

But after the eruption they lost a large part of their business and closed it's doors about two months ago....  particularly having no OS tourists or cruise ships didn't help.

 

Don the intrepid photographer

 

[NSWP]

2 hours ago, lissie said:

Disagree - its a type of volcano which is almost impossible to predict (unlike say Hawaii which is much easier to do so) .  The geologists didn't know - so I'm not entirely sure what special powers you think the tour operators had? 

 

No one else will profit except the lawyers.  The  victims are covered by our no-fault accident compensation system. Not sure if that continues for those who were moved overseas. 

Lissie, I am no armchair Vulcanologist, but even a layman could see there was inherent danger allowing those White Island tours to proceed in the weeks leading to and on the actual day of the disaster in which 22 souls died. The island family owners and tour operator, White Island Tours must have known the Alert levels. Yet they continued the tours with you, Don and numerous others. In my eyes this is criminal negligence, surely a proper risk assessment should have been done and in view of the risks the tours discontinued. But alas, greed won.

 

I have qualifications in and experience in disaster management, including risk assessment and I just shakes my head at this debacle. I hope justice prevails and appropriate action taken. The fact that NZ Government had no power to shut down the tours is somewhat bizzare, because it is a privately owned island? Archaic in my view.

I will not comment further, sub judice.

[lyndarra]

Moved from duplicate thread.

A couple of nights ago I watched a repeat of Neil Oliver's Coast - New Zealand. He visited White Isalnd by helicopter with a guide. She described the island as "exciting" and after being told of past eruptions Neil responded by suggesting it was nature's way of saying "keep off". He looked like he couldn't leave soon enough.

Edited November 30, 2020 by lyndarra

[MicCanberra]

I enjoy the Coast shows and yes, Volcanoes are dangerous and should be treated as such at any time, especially when they are live. They are not perfectly safe unless they are extinct, even dormant volcanoes can become live suddenly. Risk is on the persons visiting as well as any company facilitating the visit.

[Docker123]

Just watched a show on ABC about White Island.

 

The focus was on the various rescuers. Helicopter company fliers. Air Ambulance. St Johns.  A little from the volcanologists. A father and daughter who were visitors, and were passengers on the boat that evacuated a lot of people.

 

very interesting and moving show.

 

Cruise ships not mentioned.
 

Called Countdown To Disaster. It is on iview. Well worth watching, if a little harrowing at times.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Docker123

[Kiwi Kruzer]

One year ago today since the eruption .

[MicCanberra]

A tragic event and no matter who is to blame or is responsible and no matter what the outcome of the legal proceedings, the families of those killed and of those injured will never be the same again.