O life air?

[Hlitner]

9 hours ago, LHT28 said:

Do airline pay commissions  again??

They never stopped, but rather changed.  Southwest and Jetblue are somewhat known as the airlines who do not pay any commissions which is one reason why their flights are not listed on many booking engines.  But the other airlines do have various commission deals and also enter into contractual arrangements with large volume agencies.   Some of the cruise lines are big customers.  What I find strange is that cruise lines like Princess, HAL, RCI, etc. will negotiate (often done by a third party agency) special deals that get them access to special discounted fares.  So, for example, the coveted "P" Fare Business Class fares are commonly available for Princess and HAL customers. 

 

Just to put this in perspective, a discounted one way fare from MDT (Harrisburg) to CPN (Copenhagen_ used to be about $2300 (just an example).  But we once snagged a "P" Fare Class (heavily discounted Business Class) Air Canada flight from MDT to CPN (via Toronto) for about $1200.  Not only did that get us very nice lay flat seats in a new Boeing 777, but that means lots of free baggage and access to Air Canada's beautiful new lounge (only for paying Business and First Class) in Toronto.  That lounge had a really decent sit down restaurant, unlimited drinks, etc.  Many of our friends bad mouth Air Canada, but that entire experience was near perfection.

 

DW and I are recent converts to playing the airline game.  Until about 10 years ago we would always book the cheapest economy fares no matter where we flew.  But then, by accident, we discovered that flying can be a pretty good experience if one is willing to pay the price and carefully choose the equipment (type aircraft), airports, etc.  Now we do pay more money but actually enjoy many of the long flights.  When we sat in China Air's comfy lay flat seats from JFK to Singapore I sipped an awful lot of Johnnie Walker Blue (China Air is well known to have this in Bus Class).   Other airlines like Singapore Air let you choose (days in advance) from a large food menu.

 

Now, at least temporarily the Business Class/First Class perks have been eliminated or toned down.  But that is temporary (because of COVID) and there are rumors that airlines are planning even better perks in the future.  For example, United who has often had horrible Business Class seats and service has expanded their move to what they call Polaris Class which is actually pretty competitive with some of the best Asian airlines.  United often has good fares (especially to Europe) with quite a few of the cruise lines.

 

Hank

[FlyerTalker]

15 hours ago, Hlitner said:

But we are talking $350 per couple (a majority of bookings are couples) on top of the commissions they get from the airlines.

 

11 hours ago, LHT28 said:

Do airline pay commissions  again??

 

 

No....commissions are long gone, save some rare exceptions with third world areas.  What cruiselines are mostly providing are negotiated, consolidator contract fares.

 

But why let that stop a good story.

[Hlitner]

16 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

 

 

No....commissions are long gone, save some rare exceptions with third world areas.  What cruiselines are mostly providing are negotiated, consolidator contract fares.

 

But why let that stop a good story.

Really?  So you think that expedia, Orbitz and the other search engines are dong what they do for free?   I understand that the airlines claim not to pay any commissions for tickets sold in the USA but they are not as clear about "off shore" operations.  It is difficult to accept that booking sites do what they do for their own fun (I do understand they get money from advertising).  By the way, why don't the same booking sites sell for Southwest ?

 

Perhaps I have been misinformed but had understood that aggregator sites (such as Expedia and Orbitz) do get commissions (quietly) but individual travel agencies no longer get commissions.  Not true?

 

 

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

They never stopped, but rather changed.  Southwest and Jetblue are somewhat known as the airlines who do not pay any commissions which is one reason why their flights are not listed on many booking engines

 

Actually back in the '90's  they did stop  paying commission

But I did saw an article that they started paying again in recent years  maybe not as much as the old days

 

I bet online bookers  have a hidden fee  for air tickets

I book direct  so  I cannot be sure

 

 

[clo]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

For example, United who has often had horrible Business Class seats and service has expanded their move to what they call Polaris Class which is actually pretty competitive with some of the best Asian airlines. 

We used points and $$$ and flew Polaris Business from Buenos Aires to Houston and it was pure bliss. I had a glass of sparkling and slept all night which is something that doesn't happen for me.

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, LHT28 said:

Actually back in the '90's  they did stop  paying commission

But I did saw an article that they started paying again in recent years  maybe not as much as the old days

 

I bet online bookers  have a hidden fee  for air tickets

I book direct  so  I cannot be sure

 

 

No there are no hidden fees with the major legit booking sites such as Expedia, Orbitz, etc.   While I will routinely use those sites and others to research flights and pricing I do generally prefer booking on the airline's own sites.  There are some situations where one or more online sites might actually offer a slightly lower price then booking direct (this can happen with some International flights) so it pays to look.   There are also Consolidator sites (these are discounters of International flights) which can be a real minefield for those who don't understand the downside of Consolidators.   

 

Hank

[pinotlover]

Too many people concerned someone else will make a profit! I run mostly inclusive wine tours to different places in the world. I negotiate bulk rate airfares with the different airlines, typically either oneworld or Star Alliance carriers. Same for hotels.

 

I have a package price, and I don’t break down the segments, it’s a package. If one demands to opt out of the air, there should be no assurances that the credit I give them is equal to what I would pay for the ticket. I don’t allow opting out of the hotel. Same goes for O Air. Take  the Air or take the credit, you choose. If we don’t make Money we don’t run the tours ( or cruises), get over it, or just DIY it yourselves.

[LHT28]

26 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

No there are no hidden fees with the major legit booking sites such as Expedia, Orbitz, etc.  

Hank

This is from 2002 but  maybe not still in effect today

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2002-mar-31-tr-digest31.2-story.html

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-News/Travel-Agent-Issues/Delta-international-commission-cut-could-be-first-many

 

[jagoffee]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Really?  So you think that expedia, Orbitz and the other search engines are dong what they do for free?   I understand that the airlines claim not to pay any commissions for tickets sold in the USA but they are not as clear about "off shore" operations.  It is difficult to accept that booking sites do what they do for their own fun (I do understand they get money from advertising).  By the way, why don't the same booking sites sell for Southwest ?

 

Perhaps I have been misinformed but had understood that aggregator sites (such as Expedia and Orbitz) do get commissions (quietly) but individual travel agencies no longer get commissions.  Not true?

 

 

I believe FlyerTalker is correct.  The airlines might be paying a fee to the third party or the third party might be paying a fee to the airlines, but I find it hard to imagine that it is commission based or business volume based.  I sometimes use these third parties (Kayak, Expedia, etc) to check various flight options.  Then later go directly to the airline to book.  Neither the third party or the airline is likely to know that I used the third party search engine.  I have never understood why people use the third party to book unless they find a cheaper fare than they can get direct. ( I have never seen that situation).  No reason to have someone in the middle IMO. 
I suspect that there are some fees involved, but the fees are not based on any particular series of flights.  Like advertising, Google, Facebook, etc.  Perhaps Southwest refuses to pay?

[Hlitner]

16 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

This is from 2002 but  maybe not still in effect today

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2002-mar-31-tr-digest31.2-story.html

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-News/Travel-Agent-Issues/Delta-international-commission-cut-could-be-first-many

 

I have an open mind on this issue which really has little importance other then curiosity.  But here is a more recent article regarding "aggregators."  While there is little question that the airlines generally stopped (many years ago) to travel agencies it is the aggregators (i.e. Expedia, Orbitz, etc) that have taken on a lot of importance in the travel industry.  Just having one's flights show at the top of the list when you do a search will generate more sales.  

How Airlines Work With Flight Aggregators (aviationtribune.com)

 

The industry does guard their secrets well :).  We even see this in the cruise industry where most folks are completely ignorant of how travel/cruise industries are paid.  And then there are the large travel consortiums (generally unknown to the public) such as the Signature Travel Network that play a very big part in how cruise vacations are priced.   When some of us here on CC suggest that cruisers should "shop around" for the best cruise deals there is still a lot of push back from folks who think they get the best deals by booking direct with cruise lines.  

 

But one thing is for sure.  The days of the small local travel/cruise agencies are very limited.  While some do survive by taking advantage of the semi-secret travel consortiums  and a few large agencies who still work with outside sales agents, these agencies have mostly folded because of the easy availability of info on the Internet.  Many of us are old enough to remember when you could not walk into a shopping mall without finding at least one travel agency.  I kind of miss those days and the personal relationships formed with travel agents.  Now, I still form "telephone" relationships with agents from good high volume cruise agencies (who discount in a pretty big way) but it is not the same as those old face to face relationships.

 

Hank

 

[LHT28]

47 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I have an open mind on this issue which really has little importance other then curiosity. 

 

 

You do go on LOL

 I was just correcting your statement  when you said  they never stopped paying commission

 perhaps you were not in the travel business when it happened 

Yes they do now pay something  to agencies  but not as much as the old days

 That is why some agents  were charging a fee if you only booked air tickets   usually if you book other components of your trip they would waive the fee

 OK

Done

 

[Paulchili]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

DW and I are recent converts to playing the airline game

You are not "playing the airline game" unless you are getting all these J/F tickets for free (with miles) as some of us have been for years 😀

[clo]

1 minute ago, Paulchili said:

You are not "playing the airline game" unless you are getting all these J/F tickets for free (with miles) as some of us have been for years 😀

I finally stopped following The Points Guy but still get maybe a daily email that gives me some good info, including about cruising.

[FlyerTalker]

On 12/18/2020 at 11:57 AM, clo said:

I finally stopped following The Points Guy but still get maybe a daily email that gives me some good info, including about cruising.

 

TPG has decent information with trip reports.  Be aware that TPG generates significant income from credit card referral payments.  I have noticed that redemption stories often correlate to CC advertisers and signup links.

[clo]

25 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

TPG has decent information with trip reports.  Be aware that TPG generates significant income from credit card referral payments.  I have noticed that redemption stories often correlate to CC advertisers and signup links.

Oh yeah. And I don't 'play the game.' We each got the CSR for the bonus (60k IIRC), then canceled mine after a year. I have a BoA Alaska card for free bags. I kinda chuckle when those people worry about their credit scores if they get too many cards. Our credit scores could hardly be higher plus we own everything we want to own 🙂

[Hawaiidan]

On 12/18/2020 at 6:00 AM, Hlitner said:

They never stopped, but rather changed.  Southwest and Jetblue are somewhat known as the airlines who do not pay any commissions which is one reason why their flights are not listed on many booking engines.  But the other airlines do have various commission deals and also enter into contractual arrangements with large volume agencies.   Some of the cruise lines are big customers.  What I find strange is that cruise lines like Princess, HAL, RCI, etc. will negotiate (often done by a third party agency) special deals that get them access to special discounted fares.  So, for example, the coveted "P" Fare Business Class fares are commonly available for Princess and HAL customers. 

 

Just to put this in perspective, a discounted one way fare from MDT (Harrisburg) to CPN (Copenhagen_ used to be about $2300 (just an example).  But we once snagged a "P" Fare Class (heavily discounted Business Class) Air Canada flight from MDT to CPN (via Toronto) for about $1200.  Not only did that get us very nice lay flat seats in a new Boeing 777, but that means lots of free baggage and access to Air Canada's beautiful new lounge (only for paying Business and First Class) in Toronto.  That lounge had a really decent sit down restaurant, unlimited drinks, etc.  Many of our friends bad mouth Air Canada, but that entire experience was near perfection.

 

DW and I are recent converts to playing the airline game.  Until about 10 years ago we would always book the cheapest economy fares no matter where we flew.  But then, by accident, we discovered that flying can be a pretty good experience if one is willing to pay the price and carefully choose the equipment (type aircraft), airports, etc.  Now we do pay more money but actually enjoy many of the long flights.  When we sat in China Air's comfy lay flat seats from JFK to Singapore I sipped an awful lot of Johnnie Walker Blue (China Air is well known to have this in Bus Class).   Other airlines like Singapore Air let you choose (days in advance) from a large food menu.

 

Now, at least temporarily the Business Class/First Class perks have been eliminated or toned down.  But that is temporary (because of COVID) and there are rumors that airlines are planning even better perks in the future.  For example, United who has often had horrible Business Class seats and service has expanded their move to what they call Polaris Class which is actually pretty competitive with some of the best Asian airlines.  United often has good fares (especially to Europe) with quite a few of the cruise lines.

 

Hank

Yes  Polaris class but  on 787-10,  /777/ 767    others are older but called Polaris...  Flew 787 SYD-LAX on a 787-8  and it was not that good.... different from the -10       You have t know your equipment   

I agree... with a given finite number  of your travel days, one needs to pay for an experience aloft....... not an  endurance...... It is worth  it ....

[Hawaiidan]

On 12/18/2020 at 10:54 AM, Paulchili said:

You are not "playing the airline game" unless you are getting all these J/F tickets for free (with miles) as some of us have been for years 😀

for 15 years  have not paid for a Bus fare to Europe..... nor a hotel   ( UAL and Marrriott cards)   

[ORV]

15 hours ago, clo said:

Oh yeah. And I don't 'play the game.' We each got the CSR for the bonus (60k IIRC), then canceled mine after a year. I have a BoA Alaska card for free bags. I kinda chuckle when those people worry about their credit scores if they get too many cards. Our credit scores could hardly be higher plus we own everything we want to own 🙂

Anyone worrying about their credit obviously has other credit issues. I've opened and cancelled at least 20 or more credit cards in the last 15 years and currently have a credit score of around 830. I'm going to take all that free stuff I can get, as long as it's something that I would be using otherwise. To not take advantage of it is just bad money management, at least in my opinion. Everyone has to make their own choice. 

 

Having said that I have 3 or 4 cards that we've had long term that don't get cancelled. 

[FlyerTalker]

5/24 hasn't bit you yet?

[ORV]

16 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

5/24 hasn't bit you yet?

As a matter of fact, yes, a few years ago. I was denied a Marriott card from Chase, but I have since been able to take one out. My wife already had one, but we were doubling up. It's been a while since we've taken any new cards out, especially this year. We'll see what the future brings. 

[Ride-The-Waves]

Great discussion  - informative.  Just booked a late 2022 TA on Riviera with basic OLife and no air.  While its waaay too early to do air, Oceania wanted about $100 each more than Swiss for MIA-VCE Business and that is after all the add-on costs as part of OLife.  Disappointing.  Princess appears to have an excellent air program and we have used it for long haul flights to Europe and Oz and working with them on reservations and changes has been a positive experience, good flexibility and pricing.  Interestingly, we had a 2-week river cruise through France scheduled for this past June and Uniworld wanted to charge us $50 each more than direct booking with the airline.  Booked direct and when cancellations for COVID-19 arrived, American refunded our R/T business fare within 2 weeks.  It took a chargeback and finally a deposit refund after 11 months to get monies back from Uniworld.  Code sharing is also an issue.  Four years ago for an Antarctic cruise booked MIA-USH direct with Aerolineas Argentinas, code share with Delta.  The US airline was asking three times the price for the same seat on the same airplane!  Criminal!  Always book hotels direct through a consolidator for best pricing and cancellation options.  Thanks.

[Homerody]

Since there seems to be a lot of savvy fliers and Flyertalk-ers here too what is the common  wisdom on using miles to upgrade OLife economy fares (any info of fare buckets, etc...)? 

[Paulchili]

6 hours ago, Homerody said:

Since there seems to be a lot of savvy fliers and Flyertalk-ers here too what is the common  wisdom on using miles to upgrade OLife economy fares (any info of fare buckets, etc...)? 

I always use miles for the cruises but in full value rather than as an upgrade.

My guess - and this is only a guess - that O economy tickets are such that they cannot be upgraded with miles.

[lj77346]

"Homerody" - I don't know what the policy will be when cruises resume, but in the past Olife tickets issued for flights on United could not be upgraded using miles.

[Homerody]

17 hours ago, lj77346 said:

"Homerody" - I don't know what the policy will be when cruises resume, but in the past Olife tickets issued for flights on United could not be upgraded using miles.

 

21 hours ago, Paulchili said:

I always use miles for the cruises but in full value rather than as an upgrade.

My guess - and this is only a guess - that O economy tickets are such that they cannot be upgraded with miles.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.  I always went the full miles route with other cruise lines and will not chance it with O (if and when the time to book a cruise comes).