New vaccine

[Dinglebert]

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

I completely agree. Once you start a life of criminality, assault or murder then you forfeit your human rights IMO. It’s the same about CCTV which people complain about. If you’ve got nothing to hide, why worry when they are instrumental in solving crimes on an almost hourly basis. 

Yes but what about the people who don't live a life of crime?  Should we also lose all our rights?  If I have nothing to hide why do I have to be under surveillance?

[zap99]

2 minutes ago, Dinglebert said:

I know its not as if people died to have the rights we have nowadays.

It seems that some are happy to discard those rights. We are talking about Covid and Vaccinations. If some want those jabs to harvest DNA to fit people up for crimes the police can't solve, I doubt that will go down well with people who treasure our freedoms. Big brother may be doing more than watching you.

[zap99]

5 minutes ago, Dinglebert said:

Yes but what about the people who don't live a life of crime?  Should we also lose all our rights?  If I have nothing to hide why do I have to be under surveillance?

I absolutely agree. We have seen so many cases where evidence has been fabricated that our rights and safeguards should be preserved.

[Josy1953]

5 hours ago, yorkshirephil said:

Just out of interest as part of your trial have you agreed to not have any other vaccine for 12 months? Friends of ours say their documents state this, which now concerns them as they could actually get the placebo therefore not be covered for 12 months after they start their trial.

I have highlighted and attached the relevant part of the documentation that we were given at the start of the trial.  You will see that if we are recommended to take a vaccine in our area we will be advised of our options and that could mean withdrawing from the study and being told whether we have received a placebo in which case we could have the authorised vaccine. It does not say that we cannot have a vaccine that is authorised in the UK. 

I hope this makes things a bit clearer.

[zap99]

44 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Ha ha, Michelle is convinced that is going to happen to me... 😊

Andy 

Or the police asking where you were on 4 February 1987. Come on Mr Andy answer the question🤣

Edited December 8, 2020 by zap99

[Dinglebert]

1 minute ago, zap99 said:

Or the police asking where you were on 4 February 1987. Come on Mr Andy answer the question🤣

The problem lies not with was may seem sensible but with where it can end up.   You could argue all cars must have speed recorders to ensure you don't break the speed limit.  CCTV in every house to catch where there may be domestic abuse going on.  Can't be a problem for those who don't speed or abuse their families.

[Selbourne]

4 minutes ago, Dinglebert said:

Yes but what about the people who don't live a life of crime?  Should we also lose all our rights?  If I have nothing to hide why do I have to be under surveillance?

I just don’t see the link. What ‘rights’ do we lose? None at all that I can see. You wouldn’t be ‘under surveillance’. If you haven’t committed a crime your DNA just sits on a database doing absolutely nothing. I wonder how many people who throw up their arms in horror at the prospect of these things ever use the internet or have a smart phone? Be sure that Google etc will have far more info on you than the state ever would, yet we don’t stop going online because of it. People forget that nobody sits there ‘watching’. It’s just algorithms and clever technical stuff that tailors adverts etc. Same with DNA and CCTV. Nobody sits looking at it and wondering where you went for lunch or how many stages removed you are from the Royal Family. However, when some poor soul is found murdered or assaulted, a tiny scrap of DNA can find the perpetrator (if they are on the database) and see them locked away. Same with CCTV when a criminals number plate or movements can be traced. If the trade off for that is that a computer can scan my very boring browsing history, movements or how much I spent the last time I filled the car up with petrol then I will take that every time. In a straight fight between spurious ‘civil liberties’ or banging up more criminals the latter wins every time for me. 

[AndyMichelle]

4 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Or the police asking where you were on 4 February 1987. Come on Mr Andy answer the question🤣

Having a liaison in Debenhams doorway probably... 😊

Just waiting for the knock on the door from my daughter 'Deb'... 😊

Andy 

[Dinglebert]

1 minute ago, Selbourne said:

I just don’t see the link. What ‘rights’ do we lose? None at all that I can see. You wouldn’t be ‘under surveillance’. If you haven’t committed a crime your DNA just sits on a database doing absolutely nothing. I wonder how many people who throw up their arms in horror at the prospect of these things ever use the internet or have a smart phone? Be sure that Google etc will have far more info on you than the state ever would, yet we don’t stop going online because of it. People forget that nobody sits there ‘watching’. It’s just algorithms and clever technical stuff that tailors adverts etc. Same with DNA and CCTV. Nobody sits looking at it and wondering where you went for lunch or how many stages removed you are from the Royal Family. However, when some poor soul is found murdered or assaulted, a tiny scrap of DNA can find the perpetrator (if they are on the database) and see them locked away. Same with CCTV when a criminals number plate or movements can be traced. If the trade off for that is that a computer can scan my very boring browsing history, movements or how much I spent the last time I filled the car up with petrol then I will take that every time. In a straight fight between spurious ‘civil liberties’ or banging up more criminals the latter wins every time for me. 

If you google "if you have nothing to hide why worry" it comes up with very many good reasons why you should worry.

[terrierjohn]

1 minute ago, zap99 said:

I absolutely agree. We have seen so many cases where evidence has been fabricated that our rights and safeguards should be preserved.

But if DNA  does not lie then maybe the Icelanders have the right idea.  Of course you could not make providing a sample compulsory, but refusal would certainly raise a few eyebrows.

[AndyMichelle]

1 minute ago, Dinglebert said:

If you google "if you have nothing to hide why worry" it comes up with very many good reasons why you should worry.

If you Google.... 😂😂😂

[zap99]

5 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Having a liaison in Debenhams doorway probably... 😊

Just waiting for the knock on the door from my daughter 'Deb'... 😊

Andy 

That's how my son Travelodge found me. 🤣

Edited December 8, 2020 by zap99

[Dinglebert]

1 minute ago, AndyMichelle said:

If you Google.... 😂😂😂

Its an easy way to come across the articles by the likes of Amnesty International.  The originator of the expression if you have nothing to hide is said to be Goebbels.

[Selbourne]

4 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

If you Google.... 😂😂😂

The irony wasn’t lost on me either 😂 

[Harry Peterson]

26 minutes ago, Dinglebert said:

The problem lies not with was may seem sensible but with where it can end up.   You could argue all cars must have speed recorders to ensure you don't break the speed limit.  CCTV in every house to catch where there may be domestic abuse going on.  Can't be a problem for those who don't speed or abuse their families.

Alexa..........?  😱

[zap99]

58 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

But if DNA  does not lie then maybe the Icelanders have the right idea.  Of course you could not make providing a sample compulsory, but refusal would certainly raise a few eyebrows.

So if the police knock on someone's door at 2am asking for your DNA to see if they can match you to some old crime that they can't solve, I guess that ok?.

[terrierjohn]

10 minutes ago, zap99 said:

So if the police knock on someone's door at 2am asking for your DNA to see if they can match you to some old crime that they can't solve, I guess that ok?.

I was thinking along the lines of Iceland who it was suggested were proposing that everyone should provide a DNA sample, and I was suggesting it need not be mandatory but.......

[wowzz]

Once this national DNA database is created, we can then look for genetic defects,  and make sure those with such defects are not allowed to breed. Think how much that will save the NHS!

Then we can ensure only those with suitable DNA profiles are allowed to procreate so as to create a master race. Sound familiar? 

 

[zap99]

58 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Once this national DNA database is created, we can then look for genetic defects,  and make sure those with such defects are not allowed to breed. Think how much that will save the NHS!

Then we can ensure only those with suitable DNA profiles are allowed to procreate so as to create a master race. Sound familiar? 

 

Giving this more thought, I think I now agree that it would be a good thing. Who last handled the recyclable item that was put in the general waste bin?. Who ordered a substantial meal in the pub but didn't eat it all?. Who had 11 items in the checkout for less than 10. Have you been claiming child support for one that isn't yours. Civil rights?. Surely only guilty people want those. 9 people at a dinner party, when only 8 allowed.whi didn't wash their hands going into the buffet and touched the tongs. Walk the plank is too good for them.

[P&O SUE]

Getting back to the vaccine, I confess I shed a tear watching the first lady have her vaccine. Let’s all hope it’s the beginning of the end of this awful few months.

[Ardennais]

3 hours ago, zap99 said:

Or the police asking where you were on 4 February 1987. Come on Mr Andy answer the question🤣

Pizza Express Woking possibly?

[Snow Hill]

5 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Yes, I did think that the only downside could be a knock on the door one day and a 30 something stood there who greets me with “Hello Dad” 😂 

The DNA data taken is anonymised for the purpose of the research, no direct link back to the volunteers who have donated DNA samples. 

[zap99]

57 minutes ago, Ardennais said:

Pizza Express Woking possibly?

Funniest post for ages. We go to that particular branch quite often, every 2 weeks or so and know the staff quite well. They can't remember Andy ever having been there.

[zap99]

1 hour ago, P&O SUE said:

Getting back to the vaccine, I confess I shed a tear watching the first lady have her vaccine. Let’s all hope it’s the beginning of the end of this awful few months.

Yes, a monumentally important day. Hope the first step if many. Thank you to all our cc guinea pigs.

[zap99]

31 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

The DNA data taken is anonymised for the purpose of the research, no direct link back to the volunteers who have donated DNA samples. 

As it should be.😁