Thoughts on Celebrity’s cancellations

[ECCruise]

22 hours ago, jelayne said:

Unless I missed something Ford, Bristol Myers & Costco have not had to stop operating for 9 months and counting.  

That is the whole point, which obviously has been missed.

 

They would have been able to survive the downturn without running back to the debt trough.

 

RCCL is so deeply in debt that it will take them years to reach equilibrium, a direct result of them having virtually no cash reserves due to stock buybacks, over enthusiastic capital expenditure and excessive compensation. Which judging from much current pricing, they expect you to fund.

[SeaHunt]

7 hours ago, El Crucero said:

My agent agrees that prices for future cruises are in most cases pretty shocking.  And even though she gets reduced pricing, she has not re-booked some of her future cruises on Celebrity that have been cancelled.  She attributes the higher prices to:

1.  Celebrity thinks they may have to cruise at reduced capacity (maybe around 50%) for the next year or more as a result of CDC guidelines.  But she also thinks that prices will come down if the pandemic is controlled and allow Celebrity cruise at  a higher capacity while still maintaining health safety protocols.

 

I received an interesting "deal" email from HAL today 😉

 

JMO Celebrity might miss the boat(!) unless they look into backing off their pricing, especially if more lines follow HAL's example (plus this promotion fills interior rooms).

Hey Lisa, are you watching LOL?

 

Holland America Line "Buy One, Gift One" promo

Share the Joy with a FREE Stateroom*

Make 2021 the year you get together and get away. Book a Verandah stateroom or suite on select sailings and get a free Interior stateroom* for family or friends traveling with you.   Guests in the Verandah stateroom or suite will also receive:*

FREE GRATUITIES SIGNATURE BEVERAGE PACKAGE FREE one-night specialty dining 10% OFF all shore excursions 50% REDUCED DEPOSIT FREE AND REDUCED fares for kids*

Share the joy of travel in 2021. But don’t wait! This offer ends January 5. *Just pay taxes, fees & port expenses   Fine print:

'Buy One, Gift One' runs from Dec. 17 through Jan. 5 and applies to select 2021 Alaska, Europe, Caribbean and Mexico cruises departing through Dec. 18.

 

Free stateroom can be single or double occupancy

 

Single or double occupancy is permitted with the free interior stateroom, with no additional charge for single occupancy. Travelers who want to upgrade the free interior stateroom can do so for the difference in the fares between the interior and the desired stateroom category.

 

'View and Verandah' promotional amenities do not apply to travelers in the interior stateroom, and taxes, fees, port expenses and gratuities are additional for each person.

 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/deals/buy-one-gift-one.html

 

[jagoffee]

4 hours ago, kathynorth said:

The problem is that Celebrity’s redeployment plan has resulted in a large number of new itineraries that don’t meet the criteria for the lift and shift program. My booked itinerary that has been cancelled no longer exists, so lift and shift doesn’t apply. However there are similar itineraries with either different ports or different number of nights, but these would need to be booked at prevailing rates instead of a prorated shifted rate. 

I understand why this is disappointing.
 

 Do you know of any other cruise company that is allowing customer’s to maintain the pricing and perks on a different cruise?   I believe all other cruise companies are requiring customers to book future cruises at the prevailing rates.  Some give a bonus FCC % if you do not ask for a cash refund, but they are not guaranteeing lower historical pricing based on just a deposit.  
 

I guess I am defending Celebrity as I think their Lift and Place program was overly generous.

[vivian02]

Here is an update on my L&S. Apparently with the holidays up on us most agencies are very short handed. I got lucky today and got a hold of an agent that was fairly new but took the time to call Celebrity. Appears once Celebrity realized I have done past sailings with them and that they were still holding onto my deposit the situation changed. (no extra deposit money required) I managed to get a lock in on a August date for 2021 with a sailing out of Seattle. I was originally scheduled out of Vancouver for last August but cancelled a week before final payment. I would have done the cruise out of Vancouver but the airline voucher that the airlines promised is no where to be found? I love Vancouver but the Canadian Air carrier helped me decide on Seattle instead of Vancouver. Seems that Air carrier is giving my Canadian friends a lot of grief. So sorry I know what it is like to make that call and get dropped after waiting over an hour. I will double check my new sailing date for Celebrity with my cruise agent before the end of the year. This has been a real hassle and who knows if cruising will resume by summer. My best advice for those who are trying to L&S will be to take it one step at a time. Things are very out of whack at the present time I do hope everyone else has a smoother switch on deposits than what I have gone through. I will deal with the Canada Air carrier after the first of the year. Its just a shame that the consumer has to fight tooth and nail to salvage future vacation times. At least I can say things are looking a whole lot better than yesterday.    

[Fouremco]

52 minutes ago, vivian02 said:

Here is an update on my L&S. Apparently with the holidays up on us most agencies are very short handed. I got lucky today and got a hold of an agent that was fairly new but took the time to call Celebrity. Appears once Celebrity realized I have done past sailings with them and that they were still holding onto my deposit the situation changed. (no extra deposit money required) I managed to get a lock in on a August date for 2021 with a sailing out of Seattle. I was originally scheduled out of Vancouver for last August but cancelled a week before final payment. I would have done the cruise out of Vancouver but the airline voucher that the airlines promised is no where to be found? I love Vancouver but the Canadian Air carrier helped me decide on Seattle instead of Vancouver. Seems that Air carrier is giving my Canadian friends a lot of grief. So sorry I know what it is like to make that call and get dropped after waiting over an hour. I will double check my new sailing date for Celebrity with my cruise agent before the end of the year. This has been a real hassle and who knows if cruising will resume by summer. My best advice for those who are trying to L&S will be to take it one step at a time. Things are very out of whack at the present time I do hope everyone else has a smoother switch on deposits than what I have gone through. I will deal with the Canada Air carrier after the first of the year. Its just a shame that the consumer has to fight tooth and nail to salvage future vacation times. At least I can say things are looking a whole lot better than yesterday.    

I'm happy to see that there has been some progress at least.

 

BTW, just for clarity, I assume that you mean Air Canada. There was a Canadian Airlines, but they ceased operations in 2001.

[vivian02]

Fouremco..... yes progress was made. I feel much better now that I have a date set and a invoice generated. You have the airlines identified that  I was talking about. I don't like giving the name of the airlines in full view since the issue is probably something that has fallen through the cracks and might be a simple fix. On the other hand I don't like sitting on a phone call waiting over an hour only to get kicked off by the called party. This is happening way too often in the last few months. Even with my phone call earlier today to my travel agency I got kicked of after the first fifteen minutes. I did not get mad. In fact I called back and was suprised to get connected to someone right away second time around. 

     Once again..... anyone with a deposit with Celebrity that is in L&S situation call soon and do not wait until the last minute to make a booking. There are issues going on which is not the fault of the customer but if not corrected could cause you to lose your deposit. Two weeks ago I was going to let my deposit lapse but realized it would not benefit me the customer. It took time to solve the issue but as it turned out the Cruiseline had the deposit even though the travel agency said I had been sent a refund. I just don't like refunds I can't see or touch. There is now light starting to shine at the end of the tunnel...... I hope.  

[vivian02]

OK folks I have to back it up here. The OP subject matter pertains to Celebrity Cancelations. In trying to figure out what to do in this L&S situation I am aware of the May Cancelations that have happened. This makes me a little uneasy going forward.  I got my new invoice pricing this morning which looks really nice except for the fact that it shows a deposit subtracted from the new amount? I won't go any further on this invoice except to say it looks like I will get a phone call from my travel agency before the end of the month asking for more deposit money. This will be a first time in my twenty years of cruising that I am exspected to put down a second deposit in order to cruise. This now has taken an ugly turn. Here is the way I look at it. Do I really want to put a second deposit down with a cruise the might could get canceled come August. Do I really want to risk two deposits? Here is a better way of looking at it.....How many of you have been asked for more deposit money doing the L&S?   

[wrk2cruise]

If this is L&S your invoice should be the same "Cruise Fare" as your original invoice.  Taxes/Fees will be the current T/F from the new sailing dates.   Your total fare should be the same as your original invoice +/- the difference in T/F.   From the total the deposit you had paid on the original should be subtracted.  End result is the outstanding balance should be what your original outstanding balance was +/- the difference in T/F.

 

Sounds like you have a TA.   You should really be asking them to explain the invoice to you and verify with them that it's correct.

 

If you are using the actual L&S program you will not have to pay the balance due until final payment.  Just make sure with your TA that the balance due is what you expect.

[vivian02]

wrk2cruise.... I can see you are a well seasoned cruiser.  We will be sailing same summer date as last year's canceled cruise but will be sailing on Solstice instead of Eclipse. Solstice departs from Seattle and Eclipse departs from Vancouver. The cruise price is $450 per person more than last years price. (To the advantage of the Cruiseline) There were no perks to be transferred. The total price on the invoice including taxes shows $500 less than the orginal quoted price? I will stop here since it is evident that there is a discloser issue. Here will be my questions to the TA.

1. Did the cruiseline disclose everything when doing the L&S (wrong button might have been pressed)

2. Why the discrepancy between the Invoice price and the quoted price. (To the customer's advantage)

3. Explain the $500 deposit on the invoice since I have already put down a $500 deposit) 

4. Is this deposit on the invoice my orginal deposit? 

 

I hope I have not made this too complicated. I feel like I have just been to the car dealer buying a new car and the salesman says he lost the paper work. Twenty minutes later they say they finally found the paper work but none of the numbers add up from the previous lost paper work. This invoice has a real bad smell to it. There is no way I plan on putting up more deposit money which appears to be the issue.  

[wrk2cruise]

Let your TA do the work, it's their job.   Only other thing I will add is that it is not uncommon for the Celebrity invoice to not be correct in the days immediately following the new sailing showing on the invoice.  The pricing etc is manually adjusted by a backend department and can take awhile.   TA will figure it out.

[vivian02]

wrk2cruise..... TA will be back after Christmas. The new invoice might work out. I would just like to get my deposit locked in down the road long enough for cruising to start up again. (Wouldn't we all) I made it clear to the agent that I did not feel it was right to have the customer cough up more money before May's final payment. If they don't ask for more money then everything should work out. I will know in two weeks time. Thanks for all the feed back. 

[hcat]

On 12/17/2020 at 12:23 PM, Ashland said:

Thank you Costco for continuing to remain open and for your strict policy of enforcing masking, distancing and the early hours for those over 65 !!!!

Unfortunately while Cosco, Home Depot , Walmart, Target, Publix and other supermarkets , CVS,  etc were allowed to stay open.. many  thousands of smaller business that sell the same items were ordered closed...Many  will not be re opening. Very sad for those owners and the people they employed. Great loss to local communities.

 

Airlines and hotels  and even Disney parks are slowly coming back..

 

Cruising is unique.   Isolated dense population...germ incubator!  Foreign ports in control.They should take more time and get it right!

[hcat]

Just now, hcat said:

Unfortunately while Cosco, Home Depot , Walmart, Target, Publix and other supermarkets , CVS,  etc were allowed to stay open.. many  thousands of smaller business that sell the same items were ordered closed...Many  will not be re opening. Very sad for those owners and the people they employed. Great loss to local communities.

 

Airlines and hotels  and even Disney parks are slowly coming back..

 

Cruising is unique.   Isolated dense population...germ incubator!  Foreign ports in control.They should take more time and get it right!

Lift and Shift is a tool...not 100% solution.

[NMTraveller]

On 12/17/2020 at 10:23 AM, Ashland said:

Thank you Costco for continuing to remain open and for your strict policy of enforcing masking, distancing and the early hours for those over 65 !!!!

Costco has done better than others.  We have had a mask mandate from the governor since May.  My observation is that everyone walking into Costco has their mask on while entering.  After that about 25% of the members turn into half maskers, no maskers, or take off the mask while talking on the cell phone until they get up to the register.  Masking rules are fine,  but without any enforcement they are only about 75% effective requiring voluntary compliance.  Our state has tough rules but very little enforcement and 75% or less compliance depending upon the venue.

 

Strict policies but laxxxxx enforcement.  After a while people figure out that the policies are not being enforced.

Edited December 20, 2020 by NMTraveller

[cruznjan]

We are waiting to see how the cancelations will affect our September 2021 Mediterranean cruise, or if it will still sail.

[vivian02]

wrk2cruise...... Today I managed to find out why my invoice was out of whack. I turns out when the L&S started a lot of travel agents were getting hit with a new process. In my case the wrong button got pressed and showed I was given a refund instead of a future credit to my deposit. That is why I was being asked for a second deposit when I would call. Yes my TA got it figured out so all I have to do now is wait until final payment which won't be until May. For what it is worth have patients with the TA's. My agent this morning said once she got back from the holidays she was told no vacation can be taken in January. She also said she has more than 700 e-mails in her system. I am just glad to get all of this finally in order for our next cruise if it happens. I wish everyone the best of luck for 2021. Tim

[wrk2cruise]

Glad it got worked out for you.   I actually sent my TA a gift card for the holidays as he has been so helpful in this time where there is no income coming in.  It was just a fraction of what he has saved me over time.

[GottaKnowWhen]

When I started this thread 2 weeks ago or so, I said that Celebrity told me “refunds are coming “.  Two days ago the final refund notice from my BOA Celebrity credit card system hit my inbox. 
Today I took a deep breath, poured fresh coffee, and prepared myself for a long bout with the BOA automated phone system. I called. The system asked for the last four digits on my card. I did that. The automated VOICE said “you have a credit on your account of $xxxx. Would you like us to mail you a check?” Yes, I said. “All right. Check will be sent.”

Amazingly easy process. And I had barely touched my coffee.

 

[tnt10]

On 12/16/2020 at 1:11 PM, ECCruise said:

Honestly, upper management got them into the position in which they now find themselves.  Gobs of stock buybacks instead of conserving cash.  Overexpansion before the market had the time to catch up.

 

NYSE:RCL's 3-Year Average Share Buyback Ratio is ranked higher than
85% of the 470 Companies
in the Travel & Leisure industry.

 

There are any number of companies with significant cash reserves that will not need to raise prices to point of beginning to turn off scores of potential customers.  Many tech firms but also corporations such as Ford, Bristol Myers, Costco and others have plenty of cash in their coffers.  

 

Not only do I not want to pay higher prices, I won't.  I will not help them shoulder the downturn because of poor business decisions.  That money goes to charities first.

Are you kidding?

None of the companies you mentioned has been shuttered since March 2020.  You can't compare Costco, (that has been open all along),  with any cruise company, that has virtually had all revenue streams shut down!

Like comparing apples and oranges, or donkeys and elephants.

[ECCruise]

10 hours ago, tnt10 said:

Are you kidding?

None of the companies you mentioned has been shuttered since March 2020.  You can't compare Costco, (that has been open all along),  with any cruise company, that has virtually had all revenue streams shut down!

Like comparing apples and oranges, or donkeys and elephants

Reread the post. 

It is about cash conservation before the downturn. It has absolutely nothing to do with revenue streams during the downturn. 

RCL was awash with debt before.  They are deeper in debt now. They overexpanded. They blew their cash on stock buybacks.