Thoughts on Celebrity’s cancellations

[GottaKnowWhen]

I had nine future cruises scheduled on Celebrity, a single, a B2B, and two B2B2B. I was told recently that my furthest out cruises, B2B2 in January 2022, were cancelled. Refunds on the way. But all the intervening cruises are still on the books. Hmmmmm. And I have read quite a few comments here and elsewhere about cancellations in the November 2021 to April-May 2022 period. 
 

I think that Celebrity is taking the long view. They are putting in place the deployment and schedule changes for late next year and on into 2022. Doing it now so that we will have a more stable set of schedules to work with as this next year’s cruises are cancelled and we need to look for future options. When my April 2021 TA is cancelled, I will be able to find that there is no similar option in 2022 and thus will be able to develop new plans. Which is good because of course the planning is at least half the fun. I guess.

Stan

[LGW59]

19 minutes ago, GottaKnowWhen said:

I had nine future cruises scheduled on Celebrity, a single, a B2B, and two B2B2B. I was told recently that my furthest out cruises, B2B2 in January 2022, were cancelled. Refunds on the way. But all the intervening cruises are still on the books. Hmmmmm. And I have read quite a few comments here and elsewhere about cancellations in the November 2021 to April-May 2022 period. 
 

I think that Celebrity is taking the long view. They are putting in place the deployment and schedule changes for late next year and on into 2022. Doing it now so that we will have a more stable set of schedules to work with as this next year’s cruises are cancelled and we need to look for future options. When my April 2021 TA is cancelled, I will be able to find that there is no similar option in 2022 and thus will be able to develop new plans. Which is good because of course the planning is at least half the fun. I guess.

Stan

Good points here!  Like the rest of us, sailing in unchartered territory.

[marieps]

A very positive outlook.  

[phoenix_dream]

Unfortunately, these changes are resulting in a lot of people not being able to lift and shift, and instead needing to pay exorbitant prices for similar cruises.  I realize people have the right to not book those if they don't want them.  But for those of us like me and DH, whose retirement we planned for years and years was going to be spending most of the winter cruising, this is anything but good news. 

 

The cynical part of me wonders if eliminating lift and shift options for people is part of the reason for some of these changes.  With so many lifting and shifting, it prohibits them from taking advantage of increased prices.  Some might think that is way too negative or cynical thinking, but I managed corporate wide projects at the head office of a major company for 25 years interacting with hired consultants and senior management and believe me, don't underestimate their potential for doing this type of thing.

[paulh84]

2 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

Unfortunately, these changes are resulting in a lot of people not being able to lift and shift, and instead needing to pay exorbitant prices for similar cruises.  I realize people have the right to not book those if they don't want them.  But for those of us like me and DH, whose retirement we planned for years and years was going to be spending most of the winter cruising, this is anything but good news. 

 

The cynical part of me wonders if eliminating lift and shift options for people is part of the reason for some of these changes.  With so many lifting and shifting, it prohibits them from taking advantage of increased prices.  Some might think that is way too negative or cynical thinking, but I managed corporate wide projects at the head office of a major company for 25 years interacting with hired consultants and senior management and believe me, don't underestimate their potential for doing this type of thing.

 

I can't agree that no one wants to pay higher prices, but it's a result of the industry being in survival mode. When you double your longterm debt to a total of $18+ billion within a 9 month span, they've got to make some tough decisions. I know I do not want to be a senior or executive anything at RCG in the current environment.  

[jagoffee]

3 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

Unfortunately, these changes are resulting in a lot of people not being able to lift and shift, and instead needing to pay exorbitant prices for similar cruises.  I realize people have the right to not book those if they don't want them.  But for those of us like me and DH, whose retirement we planned for years and years was going to be spending most of the winter cruising, this is anything but good news. 

 

The cynical part of me wonders if eliminating lift and shift options for people is part of the reason for some of these changes.  With so many lifting and shifting, it prohibits them from taking advantage of increased prices.  Some might think that is way too negative or cynical thinking, but I managed corporate wide projects at the head office of a major company for 25 years interacting with hired consultants and senior management and believe me, don't underestimate their potential for doing this type of thing.

Does the Lift and Place apply if you have not made the final payment?

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

16 hours ago, GottaKnowWhen said:

Which is good because of course the planning is at least half the fun. I guess.

Stan

 Well, planning was half the fun when we got to cruise.  I had been planning for my Iceland/Greenland cruises since 2018.  This year got cancelled.  Next year will be as it is 28 nights.  The itinerary for 2022 is nothing like what I originally booked.  Would never book that itinerary.

[wrk2cruise]

35 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

Does the Lift and Place apply if you have not made the final payment?

 

Yes you can lift and shift a reservation prior to final payment date.  Of course that time frame is coming to an end as the new cruise can't start after 5/4/2022 and must be 1 year +/- 4 weeks from the original sailing.   The program is also slated to end on Jan 31, 2021 although it has been extended multiple times already.

[jagoffee]

2 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

 

Yes you can lift and shift a reservation prior to final payment date.  Of course that time frame is coming to an end as the new cruise can't start after 5/4/2022 and must be 1 year +/- 4 weeks from the original sailing.   The program is also slated to end on Jan 31, 2021 although it has been extended multiple times already.

Thank you.  
I now realize the answer was obvious and it was a dumb question. I get confused when I see people complain who have only submitted a deposit and not made a final payment.

 

IMO, this is a very generous program/offer.  I do not think any competitors have anything close.  What was Celebrity thinking?  When Celebrity created this program, they had no idea that it would go on this long.  
 

I continue to be amazed that people complain that Celebrity may not continue to allow customers to use this program to book cruises that are not yet even released.  Celebrity’s unjust reward for their generosity.  

[ECCruise]

4 hours ago, paulh84 said:

 

I can't agree that no one wants to pay higher prices, but it's a result of the industry being in survival mode. When you double your longterm debt to a total of $18+ billion within a 9 month span, they've got to make some tough decisions. I know I do not want to be a senior or executive anything at RCG in the current environment.  

Honestly, upper management got them into the position in which they now find themselves.  Gobs of stock buybacks instead of conserving cash.  Overexpansion before the market had the time to catch up.

 

NYSE:RCL's 3-Year Average Share Buyback Ratio is ranked higher than
85% of the 470 Companies
in the Travel & Leisure industry.

 

There are any number of companies with significant cash reserves that will not need to raise prices to point of beginning to turn off scores of potential customers.  Many tech firms but also corporations such as Ford, Bristol Myers, Costco and others have plenty of cash in their coffers.  

 

Not only do I not want to pay higher prices, I won't.  I will not help them shoulder the downturn because of poor business decisions.  That money goes to charities first.

[jelayne]

Unless I missed something Ford, Bristol Myers & Costco have not had to stop operating for 9 months and counting.  

[vivian02]

Don't forget in the lift and shift process the Cruiseline will want more money up front before final payment is due. I am watching closely as time is running out. I really don't want to put more money up front without proof that a real sailing will take place. As for the cruiseline trying to keep afloat financially I find it odd that most other cruiselines are not doing the same thing. I would think Celebrity would want to be competitive going forward but then that is a corporate decision. Their slogan should be we want your business...... (Not your money)

[grandgeezer]

8 hours ago, jelayne said:

Unless I missed something Ford, Bristol Myers & Costco have not had to stop operating for 9 months and counting.  

Nobody said they did, what was said, if they did shutdown for a long period of time they have enough cash to help them weather the storm.

[Arizona Wildcat]

47 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

Nobody said they did, what was said, if they did shutdown for a long period of time they have enough cash to help them weather the storm.

Really?  Shut any for 9+ months and they would not likely continue in business.

[El Crucero]

22 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

Unfortunately, these changes are resulting in a lot of people not being able to lift and shift, and instead needing to pay exorbitant prices for similar cruises.  I realize people have the right to not book those if they don't want them. 

I had a long talk with my virtual travel agent about this subject.  She seems to be well connected with RCL management.  At this point, Celebrity appears to have sufficient capital reserves to weather this health and economic storm but "getting back to normal" cannot come soon enough for them.  Yes, it appears Celebrity is taking the long view to recovery and profitability.  It (and all other cruise lines) will not be the product of yore that we have become accustomed to.  Changes are going to be made.  Some of them we will like, others not so much.  Celebrity knows they will lose some loyal customers but believes they will gain new ones with changes in their programs.

 

My agent agrees that prices for future cruises are in most cases pretty shocking.  And even though she gets reduced pricing, she has not re-booked some of her future cruises on Celebrity that have been cancelled.  She attributes the higher prices to:

1.  Celebrity thinks they may have to cruise at reduced capacity (maybe around 50%) for the next year or more as a result of CDC guidelines.  But she also thinks that prices will come down if the pandemic is controlled and allow Celebrity cruise at  a higher capacity while still maintaining health safety protocols.

2. She thinks Celebrity is trying to re-brand itself as a higher end, more exclusive product, more like what they were 20+ years ago with new higher pricing.  However, it will still allow them to market to the entry level segment of their market as a "luxury" experience at a more affordable price point - an interior stateroom with "everything included."  This starts to put Celebrity in price point competition with their sister product Azamara.  There are pros and cons to both Celebrity and Azamara and those can be debated elsewhere as to what is the better value.

 

Everyone has options and can decide how they want to spend their cruising dollar.  Some will say Celebrity is no longer worth it and move to other lines with lower prices, reduced on-board services, and different itineraries.  We have not reached that tipping point yet, but we are keeping our options open with a "wait and see" attitude for our future with Celebrity and which cruise lines will survive in the future.  But I can assure you that we will NEVER book on a line that has water slides, rock climbing walls, baked Alaska parades, and belly flop contests (even if that is what Celebrity might come to be)!  In the meantime, we have 3 cruises booked with Celebrity over the next 12 months.  It will be interesting to see which of those itineraries will survive.

Edited December 17, 2020 by El Crucero

[marieps]

The higher prices have us sampling similarly-priced lines, not less expensive ones.  We are booking our third cruise on Oceania and have cancelled Equinox.  It's a value call, not a price call.  

[Fouremco]

10 hours ago, vivian02 said:

Don't forget in the lift and shift process the Cruiseline will want more money up front before final payment is due. I am watching closely as time is running out. I really don't want to put more money up front without proof that a real sailing will take place. As for the cruiseline trying to keep afloat financially I find it odd that most other cruiselines are not doing the same thing. I would think Celebrity would want to be competitive going forward but then that is a corporate decision. Their slogan should be we want your business...... (Not your money)

I'm not sure where you got this idea. We L&S'd a March 2021 cruise to March 2022 and there was no additional money required up front. Our original booking deposit for the 2021 cruise is all that Celebrity wants until final payment, and we have the original fare, perks, etc.

[vivian02]

Not sure why placing my lift and shift into another cruise date resulted in Celebrity asking for more money but that is what happened. Before my time is up I will contact my travel agent and ask her to call the Cruiseline and tell them either accept the orginal deposit or forget the customer making final payment down the road. Thats pretty easy math. 

[kathynorth]

20 hours ago, jagoffee said:

Thank you.  
I now realize the answer was obvious and it was a dumb question. I get confused when I see people complain who have only submitted a deposit and not made a final payment.

 

IMO, this is a very generous program/offer.  I do not think any competitors have anything close.  What was Celebrity thinking?  When Celebrity created this program, they had no idea that it would go on this long.  
 

I continue to be amazed that people complain that Celebrity may not continue to allow customers to use this program to book cruises that are not yet even released.  Celebrity’s unjust reward for their generosity.  

The problem is that Celebrity’s redeployment plan has resulted in a large number of new itineraries that don’t meet the criteria for the lift and shift program. My booked itinerary that has been cancelled no longer exists, so lift and shift doesn’t apply. However there are similar itineraries with either different ports or different number of nights, but these would need to be booked at prevailing rates instead of a prorated shifted rate. 

[Ashland]

19 hours ago, jelayne said:

Unless I missed something Ford, Bristol Myers & Costco have not had to stop operating for 9 months and counting.  

Thank you Costco for continuing to remain open and for your strict policy of enforcing masking, distancing and the early hours for those over 65 !!!!

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, vivian02 said:

Not sure why placing my lift and shift into another cruise date resulted in Celebrity asking for more money but that is what happened. Before my time is up I will contact my travel agent and ask her to call the Cruiseline and tell them either accept the orginal deposit or forget the customer making final payment down the road. Thats pretty easy math. 

Is your new cruise the exact same length? I know some posters were able to L&S to a cruise that was a day or two longer than the original, and needed pay for the extra day(s). Whether that was up front or at final payment I don't know. Hopefully your TA will sort it all out for you.

[PTC DAWG]

20 hours ago, jelayne said:

Unless I missed something Ford, Bristol Myers & Costco have not had to stop operating for 9 months and counting.  

Makes a big difference, don't you think?  

[grandgeezer]

10 hours ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Really?  Shut any for 9+ months and they would not likely continue in business.

 

10 hours ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Really?  Shut any for 9+ months and they would not likely continue in business.

Are you saying the cruise industry is dead. They've been shutdown for 9 1/2 months with no clear start up in sight. I said their excess amount of cash would keep them alive for a longer time before they had to take on massive debt like the cruise lines did. That's what the "weather the storm" meant, not that they could go on forever as is. Really.

[Oceangoer2]

21 hours ago, ECCruise said:

 

There are any number of companies with significant cash reserves that will not need to raise prices to point of beginning to turn off scores of potential customers.  Many tech firms but also corporations such as Ford, Bristol Myers, Costco and others have plenty of cash in their coffers.  

 

 

This I agree with....3 E ships under construction within a very short period of time.  There was a strong market at the time and no one could foresee this pandemic, but good business sense dictates strong reserves before over-extending in case of any kind of major downturn. 

[Oceangoer2]

20 hours ago, jelayne said:

Unless I missed something Ford, Bristol Myers & Costco have not had to stop operating for 9 months and counting.  

The only comment I can make to that is the cruise lines have had NO paying customers, other than deposits or final payments and can likely survive up to a point.  Large corps are continuing to sell their product.  They do have cash reserves but who knows how long they'd have paid employees if they had to shutter their stores/plants and people quit buying.  It's a bad business all around....I especially feel for the service and small business owners...how long can they exist on they're cash reserves, if any.