Key West?

[Mary229]

27 minutes ago, NapTown Jim said:

 

I certainly hope so!  I'd love to re-book the Tropical Caribbean cruise that got cancelled but I won't until I know for sure the Key West stop is going to happen.

You should follow the local newspaper and set up a Google news alert.  Once it goes one way or the other I am sure there are many people standing by to make a choice.  

[Indianadaytripper]

I can think of nothing else positive for a cruise port other than economic. If the negative aspects of Cruise ships outweigh those economic advantages Cruise ships will continue having a hard time porting in those ports, that’s my view. The more cruise ships the more pressure to stop all cruise ships. That is one reason for cruise operators to create there own ports of call.

[NapTown Jim]

1 hour ago, Indianadaytripper said:

 That is one reason for cruise operators to create there own ports of call.

 

Actually I think the cruise line operated ports of call are for the financial benefit of the cruise lines.  Control the port, you control the excursions and your profit margin is larger.  

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, Indianadaytripper said:

I can think of nothing else positive for a cruise port other than economic. If the negative aspects of Cruise ships outweigh those economic advantages Cruise ships will continue having a hard time porting in those ports, that’s my view. The more cruise ships the more pressure to stop all cruise ships. That is one reason for cruise operators to create there own ports of call.

I don't think the problem is with cruise ships, the problems is cruise ships with 6000 passengers, that is a small city.  Oh well, you now know my biases.

 

This might be to the point of the original post.  There is not a total ban, it is a ban by size.  Perhaps the ships he is considering are within that size.  I don't remember the size

Edited February 9, 2021 by Mary229

[KirkNC]

I think it was 1,500 passengers a day would be allowed.

[Mary229]

23 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

I think it was 1,500 passengers a day would be allowed.

Thanks and if HAL uses one of the smaller ships and limits capacity they would be able to go

[ontheweb]

24 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

I think it was 1,500 passengers a day would be allowed.

The following article says 1500 visitors. So I wonder if that includes crew as well as passengers.

 

Key West, Florida, voters opt to ban large cruise ships from visiting (usatoday.com)

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

The following article says 1500 visitors. So I wonder if that includes crew as well as passengers.

 

Key West, Florida, voters opt to ban large cruise ships from visiting (usatoday.com)

That article says 1300 passengers.  If HAL only allows double capacity in staterooms and perhaps vacates a few rooms they should be able to sail there.  So I am curious which ships are advertised for the Key West port, anyone know?

[Aquahound]

Keep in mind, a ferry runs daily between Ft Myers and Key West (Key West Express).  It can hold 450 passengers.  If those numbers are counted as "disembarked passengers," it will further tie the hands of the large cruise lines.  

[Hlitner]

I think there were two different numbers in the referendums.   One limited a ship to 1300 persons and another said no more then 1500 passengers a day.   There has been some discussion (elsewhere) if that 1300 person limit means crew and passengers or just passengers. And Aquahound's last post raises a real interesting question for which we have never heard an answer.

 

Hank

[YXU AC*SE]

Actually there were three.  

 

(1) was an upset limit of 1500 persons disembarking cruise ships (not crew, not pax, not guests, but persons) per day. (but this would mean the @Aquahoundferry question is answered ?) 

(2) cruise ships with a capacity of greater than 1300 persons (specified as passengers and crew) would be prohibited from disembarking anyone. 

(3) City would give preference and priority to ships / lines with the best environmental records, and health record as measured by VSP.  

 

 

Currently before cmte in the FL Senate is SB 426, which if passed would countermand Key West's charter amendments.   

 

 

Scott. 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by YXU AC*SE

[Al Aboard]

20 hours ago, Mary229 said:

That article says 1300 passengers.  If HAL only allows double capacity in staterooms and perhaps vacates a few rooms they should be able to sail there.  So I am curious which ships are advertised for the Key West port, anyone know?

For the 2021-2022 Caribbean offerings: Volendam, Nieuw Amsterdam, Eurodam, Nieuw Statendam and Rotterdam VI are all scheduled to stop there.  All of these ships have a listed capacity greater than 1300 (Volendam is listed at 1432 and is the smallest).  Not sure how the law would apply if the ship is sailing at a reduced capacity since I believe part of the attempt was to limit the size of ships.  I've been hearing ship capacity - not how many are actually aboard.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Al Aboard

[KirkNC]

Wow, 1,300 includes crew.  That really limits which ships can go.  I thought it was just passengers.

[Roz]

1 minute ago, KirkNC said:

Wow, 1,300 includes crew.  That really limits which ships can go.  I thought it was just passengers.

 

It may have been written that way to exclude all cruise ships.  If that's the case, it may not withstand a legal challenge.  If I'm not mistaken, all ports in FL receive financial support from the state.  The State of FL may have a say in some of this. 

[chengkp75]

Bit late to this party, but just looking at the bill above, and then looking at the Florida Port Council web page, this bill would also strip authority from all 19 local port authorities in Florida.  Not sure that the Miami, Tampa, Jax, and PEV port authorities will lobby for this bill.

[nocl]

23 hours ago, Aquahound said:

Keep in mind, a ferry runs daily between Ft Myers and Key West (Key West Express).  It can hold 450 passengers.  If those numbers are counted as "disembarked passengers," it will further tie the hands of the large cruise lines.  

I would suspect that they are not counted since I have not heard or read anything in the Key West paper indicating that the totals include the ferry, only cruise ships.

 

Also as posted above the referendums included the term cruise ships.

Edited February 10, 2021 by nocl

[cruisemom42]

5 hours ago, Roz said:

 

It may have been written that way to exclude all cruise ships.  If that's the case, it may not withstand a legal challenge.  If I'm not mistaken, all ports in FL receive financial support from the state.  The State of FL may have a say in some of this. 

 

Small ships such as the R-class ships of both Oceania and Azamara would still be allowable, even if crew is counted. Same with the Viking Ocean fleet of ships. 

 

I'm sure there are a few other outliers as well... Windstar, Ponant, etc.?

[mringenoldus]

For the initial return to sail itineraries, the ships will sail at an average of 60% capacity. It might be possible that those sailings would meet the requirements - it depends on the number of crew. 
 

Grand Cayman also continues to be included in itineraries and there definitely will be no ships porting prior to January 2022. 
 

If you maintain a flexible outlook towards the Fall 2021 sailings and are willing to go wherever the ship eventually takes you, there is a chance they may actually sail.

[Roz]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Small ships such as the R-class ships of both Oceania and Azamara would still be allowable, even if crew is counted. Same with the Viking Ocean fleet of ships. 

 

I'm sure there are a few other outliers as well... Windstar, Ponant, etc.?

 

How many of those lines regularly call on Key West?

[mringenoldus]

7 minutes ago, Roz said:

 

How many of those lines regularly call on Key West?

Regarding smaller ships the choice is Oceania, plus cruise lines such as NCL, Virgin, HAL, Celebrity, Carnival 

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, Roz said:

 

How many of those lines regularly call on Key West?

 

Not sure -- I know we stopped there on an Azamara cruise.

 

A quick look at the most busy 6-month season in the Caribbean (on a TA site) shows a handful of calls each from Azamara and Oceania, a surprising number of calls from several Regent Seven Seas ships, fairly regular calls by one Viking ship and a scattering of other small ships.

 

Edited to add: I was mainly replying regarding your statement about legal action -- clearly there are ships that can still call there, so they are not attempting to exclude cruise ships altogether.

Edited February 11, 2021 by cruisemom42

[Roz]

@cruisemom42, that's what I was wanting to know.  I didn't know if the upper end lines such as Oceania, Regent, and Azamara would think KW isn't sophisticated enough for them to warrant a stop.  

 

I just had to rebook a HAL cruise (for the 2nd time!) and even though I love KW, I didn't choose an itinerary that included it because I'm afraid it will either be skipped altogether or a crappy Jamaican port will be substituted in its place.

[Aquahound]

1 hour ago, Roz said:

@cruisemom42, that's what I was wanting to know.  I didn't know if the upper end lines such as Oceania, Regent, and Azamara would think KW isn't sophisticated enough for them to warrant a stop.  

 

 

I'm certainly biased because I'm from the Keys, but I think KW is cleaner and safer than most stops in the Caribbean/Gulf/Bahamas region.  

[Roz]

@Aquahound, I wasn't commenting on KW's cleanliness or safety.  I just thought maybe it wasn't "exotic" enough. 😛

[Hlitner]

13 hours ago, Roz said:

@cruisemom42, that's what I was wanting to know.  I didn't know if the upper end lines such as Oceania, Regent, and Azamara would think KW isn't sophisticated enough for them to warrant a stop.  

 

I just had to rebook a HAL cruise (for the 2nd time!) and even though I love KW, I didn't choose an itinerary that included it because I'm afraid it will either be skipped altogether or a crappy Jamaican port will be substituted in its place.

Actually, Key West has been (and is scheduled) to be a stop for many of the highest-end cruise lines.  Besides Oceania (we are actually booked on one of their future cruises that lists Key West as a stop) you have such high-end lines like Residensea (The World) which is arguably high end.  We were actually vacationing in KW when The World visited for a port day.  DW and I both thought it was interesting to see those folks heading back to the ship (docked very close to Mallory Square) with most weighed down with packages.  These folks were not buying T-shirts.  We have also been there when Seabourn had a vessel in port.  Keep in mind that the lines like Seabourn, Silverseas and Regent would still qualify for docking under the new restrictions (assuming those restrictions even happen).

 

Hank