Escape took a scratch in Rome

[ace2542]

7 minutes ago, HuliHuli said:

 

How many cruises DEPART from Rome? What if because of bad whether they can't do the tender?  Do they cancel the cruise? Refund all the money? What if people can't pass the step test to board the tender? Imagine that you have flown from America and you can't actually board the ship. Who would pay for you to fly to the next port? Then you have to tender all the bags and get them onboard. It is a lot of messing around and time and money I am sure.

Edited January 12, 2021 by ace2542

[HuliHuli]

1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

How many cruises DEPART from Rome? What if because of bad whether they can't do the tender?  Do they cancel the cruise? Refund all the money? What if people can't pass the step test to board the tender? Imagine that you have flown from America and you can't actually board the ship. Who would pay for you to fly to the next port? Then you have to tender all the bags and get them onboard. It is a lot of messing around and time and money I am sure.

“If ifs and ands were pots and pans, there’d be no work for tinkers’ hands”  Since I have no idea where you are headed here, and since you are way off topic, I have no intention to follow you further down the rabbit hole you uncovered. Bye.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

This is video from people onboard breakaway. I can't seem to find of when cruises go wrong UK channel 4. But recorded video onboard below. Ship took damage. Water damage internally? So damage to electrics goes without saying.

All I saw in the video, and from the videos at the time it happened, was driving rain coming in under the seals of non-watertight doors.  I am not aware of any damage done to the ship, other than to outdoor furniture that was loose.  The water damage internally was wet carpeting.  "damage to electrics goes without saying"?  You obviously don't know shipboard electricals.

1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

But my first reply begin with NCL has bad luck or maybe that should have been bad judgement?. And for me the captain should have been sacked on Breakaway and Escape as well perhaps. Did the next breakaway cruise depart ok? I am surprised that NCL has not been sued by other cruise lines for causing/contributing to the rule change in Rome?

Guess what.  The ISM does not rely on a "blame culture", which has been shown to not provide positive results from incidents, but instead does not place blame (in order to better get truthful statements from all participants) but looks for ways to learn from the incident and formulate ways to prevent a future occurrence.  Since neither Master has been censured, they followed the ISM policies, and therefore are blameless.  Do you get your driving license taken away if you bump another car in a parking lot?  Get a life.  Sued by the other cruise lines?   Again, get a life. 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

How many cruises DEPART from Rome? What if because of bad whether they can't do the tender?  Do they cancel the cruise? Refund all the money? What if people can't pass the step test to board the tender? Imagine that you have flown from America and you can't actually board the ship. Who would pay for you to fly to the next port? Then you have to tender all the bags and get them onboard. It is a lot of messing around and time and money I am sure.

First off, do you know how much damage was done, and how long the repairs will take?  At the present time, there are not a lot of cruises departing from Rome, since there are not a lot of cruises departing from anywhere at this moment.

[ace2542]

18 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

First off, do you know how much damage was done, and how long the repairs will take?  At the present time, there are not a lot of cruises departing from Rome, since there are not a lot of cruises departing from anywhere at this moment.

The section on the when cruises go  wrong show showed more than that including the ship covered ice and had people interviewed. I can't find that show online but maybe you can or they might show it in U.S. But when cruises do start to depart from Rome. Be a hell of job doing tender with all them bags. And all lines will suffer in Rome as a result of this. They may walk it back to be fair or they may not.

[All-ready2cruise]

28 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Be a hell of job doing tender with all them bags. And all lines will suffer in Rome as a result of this.

It certainly would be a "job" if it were even close to being likely.  Far more likely, they'd request the use of MSC's terminal or some other cruise terminal, for a fee, of course.  

 

 

[ace2542]

16 minutes ago, All-ready2cruise said:

 for a fee, of course

A fee greater than a captain's/master of the vessel's salary?

[All-ready2cruise]

Just now, ace2542 said:

A fee greater than a captain's/master of the vessel's salary?

Why would you worry about it, it certainly wouldn't be you who'd be the master of the ship. 

 

I'm gone. 

[ace2542]

3 minutes ago, All-ready2cruise said:

Why would you worry about it, it certainly wouldn't be you who'd be the master of the ship. 

 

I'm gone. 

 If that Captain/Master of the vessel is now costing them money. And won't it cost money to the run the tenders not just time plus MSC will want what a couple of thousand a go for their berth? With ships running at 50%?  He has to go. Bad enough that he has at least partially put them into this situation.

[NJGeorge]

1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

 If that Captain/Master of the vessel is now costing them money. And won't it cost money to the run the tenders not just time plus MSC will want what a couple of thousand a go for their berth? With ships running at 50%?  He has to go. Bad enough that he has at least partially put them into this situation.

 

It must be cocktail hour in the UK?

[ace2542]

13 minutes ago, NJGeorge said:

 

It must be cocktail hour in the UK?

It is 5 o clock somewhere remember that.

[ronrythm]

Ok, what you are all arguing about happened in December. Escape did not have any passengers on board and wasn’t scheduled to board any.

 

https://www.cruisehive.com/norwegian-cruise-ship-spotted-with-damage-after-hitting-port-wall/45601

 

https://www.cruisemapper.com/accidents/Norwegian-Escape-878

Edited January 12, 2021 by ronrythm

[farmersfight]

5 hours ago, ace2542 said:

But my first reply begin with NCL has bad luck or maybe that should have been bad judgement?. And for me the captain should have been sacked on Breakaway and Escape as well perhaps. Did the next breakaway cruise depart ok? I am surprised that NCL has not been sued by other cruise lines for causing/contributing to the rule change in Rome?

 

[NJGeorge]

8 minutes ago, farmersfight said:

 

 

True dat

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, ace2542 said:

A fee greater than a captain's/master of the vessel's salary?

It wouldn't be NCL paying the fee, it would be the other lines wishing to dock.

3 hours ago, ace2542 said:

 If that Captain/Master of the vessel is now costing them money. And won't it cost money to the run the tenders not just time plus MSC will want what a couple of thousand a go for their berth? With ships running at 50%?  He has to go. Bad enough that he has at least partially put them into this situation.

I'm not even sure about the berthing agreements with MSC and the port, are you?  It may be "MSC's berth" simply because they have paid for "first dibs" on berthing there, but the berth likely still belongs to the port authority, and any ship can dock there if MSC isn't using it.  Most likely a cargo berth runs less than the passenger dock because of not having a terminal there.  

 

Must be nice to be so perfect that you've never made a mistake that cost your employer anything.  That incident has cost NCL probably less than $100k, both for repairs to dock and ship.  As I've said, the shipping industry has grown well beyond the "blame game", and has matured to a culture of trying to better the industry.  Something maybe foreign to your work experience.

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, ace2542 said:

The section on the when cruises go  wrong show showed more than that including the ship covered ice and had people interviewed. I can't find that show online but maybe you can or they might show it in U.S. But when cruises do start to depart from Rome. Be a hell of job doing tender with all them bags. And all lines will suffer in Rome as a result of this. They may walk it back to be fair or they may not.

I saw coverage of the storm when it happened, and it was nothing close to life threatening.  Even the phone clinometer shown in the video only showed a 10* maximum roll, perhaps significant to someone who does not venture on the seas regularly, but certainly nothing to get overly excited about.  You don't seem to understand that shows like the one you are referencing make their money by exaggerating the sensational, and make things look sensational for neophytes.

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, ace2542 said:

What if because of bad whether they can't do the tender?

I've been allowing you to argue this for several posts, but where is the information that ships are now required to tender?  I don't see any mention of that on this thread.  And, given the location of the point of allision as shown in the crew center article, it has nothing to do with a dock space, it is on the other side of the jetty.

[PTC DAWG]

As usual, Cheng bringing the knowledge, thanks...

[PTC DAWG]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

I saw coverage of the storm when it happened, and it was nothing close to life threatening.  Even the phone clinometer shown in the video only showed a 10* maximum roll, perhaps significant to someone who does not venture on the seas regularly, but certainly nothing to get overly excited about.  You don't seem to understand that shows like the one you are referencing make their money by exaggerating the sensational, and make things look sensational for neophytes.

I have read where a cruise ship could handle close to 40 degrees roll...wow? I admit, that would scare me...and things would be tumbling..

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

I have read where a cruise ship could handle close to 40 degrees roll...wow? I admit, that would scare me...and things would be tumbling..

Probably more.  If you have a photo of your favorite cruise ship from straight on front or back, draw a line from the middle of the ship at the waterline and going up to the promenade deck.  Then check the angle to the horizon in the photo.  It will be at least 40*.  As long as the ship has "intact" stability (no holes in the hull like the Concordia), it will be able to roll until the first non-watertight openings (doors on promenade deck) get submerged and start to down flood.

[BirdTravels]

9 hours ago, ace2542 said:

And for me the captain should have been sacked on Breakaway and Escape as well perhaps. 

And why is that? Please cite the legal basis for your your assertion. 

[ace2542]

13 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Must be nice to be so perfect that you've never made a mistake that cost your employer anything

I have actually and I have been sacked for it.

[ace2542]

11 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Please cite the legal basis for your your assertion

On a legal basis not sure perhaps. But what employment law actually covers captains of NCL?

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, ace2542 said:

On a legal basis not sure perhaps. But what employment law actually covers captains of NCL?

International Safety Management Code, in this instance.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, ace2542 said:

I have actually and I have been sacked for it.

And how did your employer act on your incident?  Did they simply fire you and carry on?  Or did they ask you for your statement, your suggestions, and hold an internal investigation to determine why it happened and what could be done to prevent it in the future?  I'm sure that if you are being fired for the incident, then you are not exactly willing to give honest, accurate and impartial testimony regarding the incident, so the truth of the circumstances would not be found, and even remedial measures may not prevent a further incident, since the actual root cause was not determined.  This is why the maritime industry has matured beyond merely placing blame, and has embraced the "root cause analysis" method of investigating incidents, to find the actual cause and correct it, rather than merely eliminating the person who may have activated that cause.

 

But, this is a bit afield of the thread topic.  Suffice it to say, that unless the Captain was found to have negligently disregarded or counteracted a company policy as outlined in the company's ISM manual, with regards to the particular incident and the handling of "restricted water navigation" in particular, then there will be no censure of the Captain in any way.  The company will use the incident to promulgate better procedures and policies, as necessary, to prevent it from happening again.