Not sure if this has been discussed, but Infinity and Constellation may be going bye bye...

[Stockjock]

From Pullmantur's website...

NEWS: In late-November 2020 were published documents according to which (as part of the company's restructuring plan) Pullmantur could resume operations in December 2021 with a fleet of two (transferred from Celebrity Cruises) Millennium-class ships (names to be announced). Celebrity's Millennium-Class liners are 4 (Constellation, Infinity, Millennium, Summit). The financing deal with Royal Caribbean Group (owner of 49% Pullmantur shares) includes a revised business plan and is based on all the rebookings (with FCC) of former Pullmantur customers.

Because Millennium and Summit have been revolutionized, that leaves the 2 remaining Millennium-class ships, Infinity and Constellation, as the obvious candidates to be transferred/sold to Pullmantur.

In fact, I was booked on a cruise out of Miami on Infinity in December 2021 and they changed the ship to Summit, which would tie in with this, if it occurs.

Edited January 13, 2021 by Stockjock

[dkjretired]

Several other threads on this over the past couple of months, just have to see what happens.   I don't believe anything with Celebrity unless I see a press release.  They have a long history of a very bad rumor mill.  

[sydbarrett]

Oh no, I just booked Infinity. I hope they don't cancel the itinerary.

[phoenix_dream]

When they sold the Galaxy, first they completely refurbished her.  So I wouldn't say it is certain that if two ships go the non-revolutionized ones are the obvious ones.  Now granted this is more of an 'internal' sale, but still.  I confess I am hoping against hope this is not true because I have Connie booked for next January!  Also, I really like the M class ships (especially revolutionized) and would really hate to see them leave the fleet.

[ECCruise]

These rumors have been circulating, literally, for at least 5 years.  It makes no sense to speculate until they make some sort of decision.  

[Stockjock]

6 hours ago, ECCruise said:

These rumors have been circulating, literally, for at least 5 years.  It makes no sense to speculate until they make some sort of decision.  

I have to respectfully disagree with you.  It makes plenty of sense to speculate.

We know that Celebrity has 4 Millennium-class ships.  We know it's been announced publicly that they will transfer/sell 2 of them to Pullmantur.

We know that Summit and Millennium were part of Celebrity's $500,000,000.00 revolutionizing project.

We know that the other 2 ships, Infinity and Constellation, have not been revolutionized.

We know that money is tight, during the global pandemic.  Thus, it would be vastly more logical to retain the 2 ships that Celebrity has spent a lot of time and money upgrading.

We also know that Pullmantur is a budget line.  I've sailed with them, and it was a good experience, but all of their ships have been older.  Good prices, typically, but older slightly run down ships.

So yes, nothing is set in stone until a transfer actually occurs, if it occurs, but nothing wrong with putting the pieces of the puzzle in advance either.  If I had a booking on Infinity or Constellation, I wouldn't cancel it, but I wouldn't be shocked either if things change.

[wrk2cruise]

1 hour ago, Stockjock said:

We know it's been announced publicly that they will transfer/sell 2 of them to Pullmantur.

 

By Pullmantur and promptly denied by Celebrity.   Pullmantur's ability to reorganize and be able to restart operations at the end of the year which was also publicly announced seems to be questionable giving the current situation.

[ECCruise]

13 hours ago, Stockjock said:

I have to respectfully disagree with you.  It makes plenty of sense to speculate.

Fine.  That is your right.  I could frankly care less and see it as a zero sum game.

[Fogfog]

So there has been much discussion about the Connie..because many of us who did lift-shift to her have now seen in recent months an S class ship with the same itinerary

Rumor mill seems to indicate Connie going to dry dock.

If she does-- we do wonder will our sailing stay intact or be cancelled

 

Another posted indicated that his TA claims X will not allow a second lift-shift. and that he was going to have to pay "prevailing rates"

This seems impossible for those of us impacted by a dry dock schedule--- 

 

Disappointing 

[wrk2cruise]

The rumor is they will try to get Connie into dry dock before Oct.  At present all of her sailings have been cancelled thru that date.   Connie and Edge May-Oct sailings are more of a redeployment than the regular suspension of sailings of April sailings on all ships.   Generally redeployment gets better terms for rebooking.

 

The T&C for Lift and Shift are clear that it's only allowed once.  Of course I don't think anyone expected that the second cruise could possibly be suspended.  It does seem that they are trying to not extend L&S past 5/4/2022.

 

The case above you reference I believe will be worked out.  They weren't trying to do a second L&S as they were just trying to rebook a few months later using the terms of their cancellation letter.   People have been abusing the L&S term to indicate any change of sailing/date.  The L&S program is a very specific program with very specific T&C.

[sdnich]

I just booked the infinity South America for 2023 A couple weeks ago. I guess if it happens I’m sure they would just swap it out with another ship.

[sydbarrett]

Does anyone have experience with this happening before? Say you were booked on a ship that was taken out of commission for whatever reason (not covid)? Do they normally swap with another ship or cancel the itinerary altogether? Now this adds another layer of uncertainty for me, even though I know there's no point worrying about it. May not sail for a number of reasons anyway.

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, sydbarrett said:

Does anyone have experience with this happening before? Say you were booked on a ship that was taken out of commission for whatever reason (not covid)? Do they normally swap with another ship or cancel the itinerary altogether? Now this adds another layer of uncertainty for me, even though I know there's no point worrying about it. May not sail for a number of reasons anyway.

Cruise lines don't have any floaters (bad pun intended) that they can bring in to replace the decommissioned ship. It's the same situation when a ship is chartered, the passengers who have already booked are bounced, no other ship is brought in to sail the original itinerary. 

[sydbarrett]

9 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Cruise lines don't have any floaters (bad pun intended) that they can bring in to replace the decommissioned ship. It's the same situation when a ship is chartered, the passengers who have already booked are bounced, no other ship is brought in to sail the original itinerary. 

😂 That's what I figured. I guess I'll just have to wait and see and hope for the best. "Cruise with confidence" as they say. lol 

[mdcelebrity]

5 hours ago, Fogfog said:

So there has been much discussion about the Connie..because many of us who did lift-shift to her have now seen in recent months an S class ship with the same itinerary

Rumor mill seems to indicate Connie going to dry dock.

If she does-- we do wonder will our sailing stay intact or be cancelled

 

Another posted indicated that his TA claims X will not allow a second lift-shift. and that he was going to have to pay "prevailing rates"

This seems impossible for those of us impacted by a dry dock schedule--- 

 

Disappointing 

We noticed that Silhouette is sailing the same date and almost exactly the same itinerary as our booked trip on Constellation (11 day Aruba, Bonaire, & Curacao starting 14Feb2022), albeit from a different starting port (FLL for Silhouette, TPA for Constellation).  Silhouette visits Cartagena vs. Key West on Constellation, but otherwise the same itinerary.  We do not recall seeing the Silhouette cruise for that date and destinations before (might have missed that, tho.)  

Interesting ...

 

[Stockjock]

2 hours ago, sydbarrett said:

Does anyone have experience with this happening before? Say you were booked on a ship that was taken out of commission for whatever reason (not covid)? Do they normally swap with another ship or cancel the itinerary altogether? Now this adds another layer of uncertainty for me, even though I know there's no point worrying about it. May not sail for a number of reasons anyway.

If that happened, it could go either way.  I've had cruises cancelled and recently, I was shifted to a slightly better and longer itinerary on a better ship.

[Fogfog]

29 minutes ago, mdcelebrity said:

We noticed that Silhouette is sailing the same date and almost exactly the same itinerary as our booked trip on Constellation (11 day Aruba, Bonaire, & Curacao starting 14Feb2022), albeit from a different starting port (FLL for Silhouette, TPA for Constellation).  Silhouette visits Cartagena vs. Key West on Constellation, but otherwise the same itinerary.  We do not recall seeing the Silhouette cruise for that date and destinations before (might have missed that, tho.)  

Interesting ...

 

Yes

and with Key West's ban on large ships, that port is a no go

[drowelf]

On 1/14/2021 at 11:25 AM, sdnich said:

I just booked the infinity South America for 2023 A couple weeks ago. I guess if it happens I’m sure they would just swap it out with another ship.

We got switched to the Infinity, from the Silhouette,  for South America for 2022. Hope we don't have to go through another switch. But in these times, I don't believe anything until the owning line states it on ship transfers, sailings, etc.. 

 

I really don't think it will be know how many lines and ships are going to be sailing in 2022, until this pandemic is under control. 

[sdnich]

Were  you ok with the switch from S class to an M class ? How did cabin changes go??

[dkjretired]

On 1/14/2021 at 3:02 PM, Fogfog said:

Yes

and with Key West's ban on large ships, that port is a no go

 

Just an FYI, a Florida state legislator last week introduced a measure to overrule that ban on a state level. We'll have to see if it passes. 

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/legal-regulatory/florida-state-senators-bill-would-overturn-key-west-cruise-ship-limits?NL=ST-004&Issue=ST-004_20210108_ST-004_188&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_2&utm_campaign=STRADE_News_Seatrade Cruise News Weekly Headline_News_NL_01082021_1491&utm_emailname=STRADE_News_Seatrade Cruise News Weekly Headline_News_NL_01082021_1491&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua&utm_MDMContactID=1e6a3fb1-5794-47d7-85d4-8b20adcd2f9b&utm_campaigntype=Newsletter&utm_sub=Seatrade Cruise News Latest Headlines&eM=e03caacfb49ac9ba279ad9f48403136e4fc077331b661460bb04b3c4f47f16f2&eventSeriesCode=ES_SEATRDCRSCTNT&eventEditionCode=MTM00SCC&sessionCode=S_STRDCRSNEWS

Edited January 16, 2021 by dkjretired

[sydbarrett]

18 hours ago, drowelf said:

I really don't think it will be know how many lines and ships are going to be sailing in 2022, until this pandemic is under control. 

That is so true! I'm not going to hold my breath for anything at this point. I just hope they don't decide to sell the ship after I book flights and accommodations in Italy, and have to scramble to get home (again). I'd be ok with a different ship but of course that may not be possible. It seems like they are selling quite a few sailings on Infinity so I hope they wouldn't knowingly get themselves into an administrative nightmare just after coming out of the covid-era. Maybe I'm naive! 

[phoenix_dream]

18 hours ago, dkjretired said:

 

Just an FYI, a Florida state legislator last week introduced a measure to overrule that ban on a state level. We'll have to see if it passes. 

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/legal-regulatory/florida-state-senators-bill-would-overturn-key-west-cruise-ship-limits?NL=ST-004&Issue=ST-004_20210108_ST-004_188&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_2&utm_campaign=STRADE_News_Seatrade Cruise News Weekly Headline_News_NL_01082021_1491&utm_emailname=STRADE_News_Seatrade Cruise News Weekly Headline_News_NL_01082021_1491&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua&utm_MDMContactID=1e6a3fb1-5794-47d7-85d4-8b20adcd2f9b&utm_campaigntype=Newsletter&utm_sub=Seatrade Cruise News Latest Headlines&eM=e03caacfb49ac9ba279ad9f48403136e4fc077331b661460bb04b3c4f47f16f2&eventSeriesCode=ES_SEATRDCRSCTNT&eventEditionCode=MTM00SCC&sessionCode=S_STRDCRSNEWS

I certainly hope so!  Key West is one of my favorite ports.  And not surprising, but Celebrity is still selling cruises stopping there, even on their 2022 sailings   I'm hoping they have some inside scoop that Key West will not be totally off limits.

[ECCruise]

18 hours ago, dkjretired said:

 

Just an FYI, a Florida state legislator last week introduced a measure to overrule that ban on a state level. We'll have to see if it passes. 

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/legal-regulatory/florida-state-senators-bill-would-overturn-key-west-cruise-ship-limits?NL=ST-004&Issue=ST-004_20210108_ST-004_188&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_2&utm_campaign=STRADE_News_Seatrade Cruise News Weekly Headline_News_NL_01082021_1491&utm_emailname=STRADE_News_Seatrade Cruise News Weekly Headline_News_NL_01082021_1491&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua&utm_MDMContactID=1e6a3fb1-5794-47d7-85d4-8b20adcd2f9b&utm_campaigntype=Newsletter&utm_sub=Seatrade Cruise News Latest Headlines&eM=e03caacfb49ac9ba279ad9f48403136e4fc077331b661460bb04b3c4f47f16f2&eventSeriesCode=ES_SEATRDCRSCTNT&eventEditionCode=MTM00SCC&sessionCode=S_STRDCRSNEWS

Sure is a nice way to totally overturn the wishes of the local people.

They don't want to ban cruise ships in total, just regulate by size.  And overwhelmingly voted to force cruise companies to prioritize ships by safety and environmental standards.

Speaking from a city absolutely overrun by tourists, it is usually a few that force their way on the majority.

[phoenix_dream]

On 1/14/2021 at 11:05 AM, sydbarrett said:

Does anyone have experience with this happening before? Say you were booked on a ship that was taken out of commission for whatever reason (not covid)? Do they normally swap with another ship or cancel the itinerary altogether? Now this adds another layer of uncertainty for me, even though I know there's no point worrying about it. May not sail for a number of reasons anyway.

I have not had this situation.  I have been on a cruise that was just outright cancelled because they booked it as a charter - this was only about 6 months out from sailing.  What they did for that one was offer us to switch to a similar sailing of equal lengths, but we had real issues with that because they had no options for the same week, and it was during spring break when our son sailing with us was in school so we could not pick a different week  It was very frustrating.  Post-Covid arrival, who knows what they would do in the future in situations like this.

[LGW59]

3 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

I certainly hope so!  Key West is one of my favorite ports.  And not surprising, but Celebrity is still selling cruises stopping there, even on their 2022 sailings   I'm hoping they have some inside scoop that Key West will not be totally off limits.

It is a lovely place.  But in my thinking if the people who live there voted (by a large margin) on limitations it should be respected it is their home.