Saga UK , normal cruising, but everyone has to be vaccinated, will Cunard follow

[Windsurfboy]

Saga UK have changed rules. Normal cruising resuming in May , albeit at 80% capacity to start. However every passenger must be fully (2 doses) vaccinated or can't board.  Will this change things for other cruise lines,  wiĺl Cunard follow. 

[lissie]

It would be the obvious future of cruising - personally  Iwon't cruise on a ship that allows unvaccinated passengers/crew.  

 

What are they using for proof though -  some update on the old yellow book vaccination books needs to be  approved for international use. 

[Victoria2]

If Cunard follow that protocol, it might make for an aged passenger profile for the first couple of cruises!

[Host Hattie]

5 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

If Cunard follow that protocol, it might make for an aged passenger profile for the first couple of cruises!

Quite, I can understand why Saga are doing it as most (maybe all) of their passengers are from the UK and will be in the first groups to be vaccinated.

I would imagine that other lines will wait and see how the vaccine roll out progresses.

Time will tell

[mcloaked]

I would imagine that passengers will feel much more confident they are safe if everyone on board has been vaccinated - and presumably the crew will also have received full vaccination too?

[david,Mississauga]

In addition to the cruise lines I expect that most, if not all, countries will require proof of vaccination from visitors.

[foodsvcmgr]

If requiring vaccination will help to rescind the current practice of terminating a cruise on discovery of one positive case then this is a very good move by Saga.

The fear of cutting the voyage short and being quarantined to cabin is a major concern of my returning to sea.

[Lanky Lad]

It will work for Saga as you have to be over 50.  But until everyone has been offered a vaccine it would be unfair to ban people for not having had it.

[Organum]

Here are the Saga Tsand Cs ’COVID-19 VACCINATIONS: It is a mandatory requirement for travel on our cruises with departures in 2021 and 2022 that all passengers must have been vaccinated against COVID-19 using a COVID-19 vaccine approved by the UK’s Medical and Healthcare Regulatory Authority. You will be required to provide evidence to our reasonable satisfaction that you and each member of your party has received the full course of such vaccination not less than 14 days prior to departure. 

[ace2542]

They have put the line in the sand haven't they? Of course Cunard will follow suit.

 

This is making me remember the Comedian we had on one of the QM2 crossings. He was telling jokes about the Saga ships.

[ace2542]

2 hours ago, Organum said:

using a COVID-19 vaccine approved by the UK’s Medical and Healthcare Regulatory Authority

That is an interesting line. From reading between it Saga will not accept vaccines which not approved by UK regulators and I am sure there will be several during the course of this. And some of the customers are likely overseas customers or overseas expats that might cause problems. I can't see people getting vaccinated twice or it even being safe to do so.

[majortom10]

Decisions made by Cunard will be no doubt made by a higher authority at Carnival so will be beyond the rules set by Saga  regarding "UK's Medical and Health Regulatory" as Cunard is clearly an international cruise line compared to Saga which is UK based and already is based for only 50s and over. Major problem is that Cunard might be given permission to sail from the UK before many have received both doses of vaccine so are limiting their market. For those reasons I cannot see Cunard going down the same road as Saga.

[ace2542]

15 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Decisions made by Cunard will be no doubt made by a higher authority at Carnival so will be beyond the rules set by Saga  regarding "UK's Medical and Health Regulatory" as Cunard is clearly an international cruise line compared to Saga which is UK based and already is based for only 50s and over. Major problem is that Cunard might be given permission to sail from the UK before many have received both doses of vaccine so are limiting their market. For those reasons I cannot see Cunard going down the same road as Saga.

Saga also at this moment in time intend to sail with unvaccinated crew with vaccine to be done at the earliest opportunity from what their website says. So from that standpoint alone they have to insist upon total vaccination of passengers if they wish to proceed. Whilst at the same time hoping the so called unvaccinated staff bubble - if we can use that phrase - holds until vaccine can be administered. They are taking a big chance.

[majortom10]

3 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Saga also at this moment in time intend to sail with unvaccinated crew with vaccine to be done at the earliest opportunity from what their website says. So from that standpoint alone they have to insist upon total vaccination of passengers if they wish to proceed. Whilst at the same time hoping the so called unvaccinated staff bubble - if we can use that phrase - holds until vaccine can be administered. They are taking a big chance.

Very risky to sail with staff not vaccinated because even though all guests will be vaccinated they can carry and spread Covid so staff could catch it and would spread amongst them very quickly. Could leave Saga open to legal cases in the future from staff.

[watsonbeau]

Vaccination is all very well but how long does the “immunity” actually last for before you need to have it again ?

 

Nobody seems to know !
 

 Even if you can find that out there is still the issue as to whether the “protection” would be lasting the same time if you are doing 12 weeks apart /3weeks apart/ or only get one jab ???

[Windsurfboy]

My view on a few points raised

 

At the moment  no vaccines are in use in Europe or North America that aren't approved by UK authorities,  so that's not a handicap to saga or carnival.  As people say vaccination will take time. Looking at UK timetable, only over 70s will be doubly vaccinated by end May, End July before over 50s, late Autumn before most adults. Other countries at moment a bit slower. So a clear choice, normal cruises with older clientele,  or strict socially distanced cruises with every age group.  Carnival will I expect choice the one that they think will sell better.

 

By 2022 it will be a different question as most peope in rich countries will have had the opportunity to be vaccinated 

 

I see some vaccine  doubters , However we have two choices .

 

A) Put our faith in the vaccines and get on with life.

 

B) Hideaway , for the foreseeable future or even longer. 

 

I've been very careful untill  now, but  once we are given the go ahead, I'll take my chances with A.

 

A cruise with no interaction with others to me is not a cruise. This applies to many things

[watsonbeau]

I don’t have an issue with having the vaccine but do want to know how long it lasts for so as not to be walking around thinking it’s still effective when it’s not as that sort of defeats the object. 

[ace2542]

1 hour ago, Windsurfboy said:

At the moment  no vaccines are in use in Europe or North America that aren't approved by UK authorities,  so that's not a handicap to saga or carnival

Not a handicap true. But again that line is in the sand. And it is a very powerful and interesting statement which reading the unwritten words implies they would reject vaccines not approved by UK Government Body - Saga only operates out of UK to my knowledge so any other regulatory bodies issue. 

 

But it is disturbing to see even the possibility that a cruise line would go so far as to reject a vaccine out of hand. In many poorer crew sourcing countries UK unapproved vaccines might be the only game in town for many people and staff.

[Lanky Lad]

As the vaccine is new, any suggestion as to how long it lasts is pure guess work.  The only way to know is to wait and see.

 

I suspect it will last longer in some that others. That said, it's the only option available at the moment so it had better work.

[TheOldBear]

3 hours ago, watsonbeau said:

Vaccination is all very well but how long does the “immunity” actually last for before you need to have it again ?

 

Nobody seems to know !
 

 Even if you can find that out there is still the issue as to whether the “protection” would be lasting the same time if you are doing 12 weeks apart /3weeks apart/ or only get one jab ???

There is indications that SARS [SARS-COV-1] and MERS survivors have effective cross-reactive immune response to COVID-19 [SARS-COV-2] about a decade later.

I am hoping that a vaccine derived immune response will also be long lasting.

[DM6045]

Its been interesting seeing this debate  about SAGA’s vaccine policy played out on various threads on social media but there is one thing that I think is wrong and that is the fact that they are not allowing any medical exemptions to the vaccine, the last figures I saw were that aproximately less than 0.3% of the uk  population will not be able to receive the Jab so theoretically only 3 people on a ship of a 1000. Even if double percentage I'm sure an outbreak among the unvaccinated could be managed by the medical team in the same way a serious case of Norovirus although admittedly they may have to carry extra oxygen.

 

The thing that I have found most upsetting about peoples responses to this is that a-lot have said that they wouldn’t feel safe sailing on a ship with a couple of unvaccinated passengers in fact one thread even went down a very dark rabbit hole with people saying that the unvaccinated should be made to wear visible symbols of their status and only be allowed into a few select shops, hospitality venues etc... rather than living in the UK in 2021 all sounds rather similar to Germany circa 1940 in my opinion.

I just cant understand why those that are vaccinated are displaying signs of fear against the minority who cannot be.

 

Personally I don’t see it as any different to any other travel vaccine, take Yellow fever for example its mandatory that you have the jab to visit certain places unless you cannot have it for various medical reasons and you get an exemption card, then you personally have to weigh up the risks to yourself and if you still decide to go have to make sure you take as many precautions as possible to protect yourself, your not putting your fellow vaccinated passengers at risk by you not having it, I just do not understand this mentality.

 

As I’m hoping that this thread maybe a little more civilised in its responses than those on FB would you feel scared if a very small number of said passengers were onboard and if so why do you think they pose a risk to you? not trying to start a debate just interested in your thought process?

 

just to be clear so no anti- antivaxers jump on this I’m not talking about people who choose not to have the vaccine only those that cannot.

[lissie]

2 hours ago, watsonbeau said:

I don’t have an issue with having the vaccine but do want to know how long it lasts for so as not to be walking around thinking it’s still effective when it’s not as that sort of defeats the object. 

Every time there is a new vaccine the length it lasts is unknown - how can they do trials on something that was invented a few months ago for long-term effectiveness. In a year they will say the vaccine lasts a year - in 5 years they will say 5 years (or not. ) When I first got a hep B vaccine in was good for 1 year, then 3 , then 10, then 25 + - no booster - it was just as they got more data they increased the length of effectiveness 

[Thaxted]

47 minutes ago, DM6045 said:

Its been interesting seeing this debate  about SAGA’s vaccine policy played out on various threads on social media but there is one thing that I think is wrong and that is the fact that they are not allowing any medical exemptions to the vaccine, the last figures I saw were that aproximately less than 0.3% of the uk  population will not be able to receive the Jab so theoretically only 3 people on a ship of a 1000. Even if double percentage I'm sure an outbreak among the unvaccinated could be managed by the medical team in the same way a serious case of Norovirus although admittedly they may have to carry extra oxygen.

 

The thing that I have found most upsetting about peoples responses to this is that a-lot have said that they wouldn’t feel safe sailing on a ship with a couple of unvaccinated passengers in fact one thread even went down a very dark rabbit hole with people saying that the unvaccinated should be made to wear visible symbols of their status and only be allowed into a few select shops, hospitality venues etc... rather than living in the UK in 2021 all sounds rather similar to Germany circa 1940 in my opinion.

I just cant understand why those that are vaccinated are displaying signs of fear against the minority who cannot be.

 

Personally I don’t see it as any different to any other travel vaccine, take Yellow fever for example its mandatory that you have the jab to visit certain places unless you cannot have it for various medical reasons and you get an exemption card, then you personally have to weigh up the risks to yourself and if you still decide to go have to make sure you take as many precautions as possible to protect yourself, your not putting your fellow vaccinated passengers at risk by you not having it, I just do not understand this mentality.

 

As I’m hoping that this thread maybe a little more civilised in its responses than those on FB would you feel scared if a very small number of said passengers were onboard and if so why do you think they pose a risk to you? not trying to start a debate just interested in your thought process?

 

just to be clear so no anti- antivaxers jump on this I’m not talking about people who choose not to have the vaccine only those that cannot.

The points you raise are interesting, but I think that some of your analogies are strained. This virus is far nastier than the Norovirus. Even a small outbreak of COVID would be almost impossible for the medical staff on a ship to handle. A bit of extra oxygen would hardly suffice. And given that we still don't know if people who have been vaccinated can still spread the disease, more than likely if there were an outbreak among the unvaccinated all the passengers would be placed under some sort of restriction or quarantined. As for Yellow Fever, since it is spread by mosquitoes, if you haven't been vaccinated and visit an area where the disease is endemic, as you said the risk is largely confined to yourself. But COVID is spread from person to person. If you aren't vaccinated, you are sharing your risk with others.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Thaxted

[breakiron]

I believe all cruise lines will eventually require the Covid-19 vaccination for both passengers and crew.  It will probably be midsummer or early fall before the cruise lines can obtain the vaccine and begin vaccinating the crew.  There can be exemptions for passengers who cannot receive the vaccination.  There will be herd immunity if more then 70-80% are vaccinated.  There should not be a problem for the few that will be unvaccinated but the medical staff on board should be prepared just in case.

[DM6045]

1 hour ago, Thaxted said:

The points you raise are interesting, but I think that some of your analogies are strained. This virus is far nastier than the Norovirus. Even a small outbreak of COVID would be almost impossible for the medical staff on a ship to handle. A bit of extra oxygen would hardly suffice. And given that we still don't know if people who have been vaccinated can still spread the disease, more than likely if there were an outbreak among the unvaccinated all the passengers would be placed under some sort of restriction or quarantined. As for Yellow Fever, since it is spread by mosquitoes, if you haven't been vaccinated and visit an area where the disease is endemic, as you said the risk is largely confined to yourself. But COVID is spread from person to person. If you aren't vaccinated, you are sharing your risk with others.

 

 

Yes To be fair having re read the bit about norovirus I didn’t word it in quite the way I meant to nor did I mean it to sound as cavalier as it did.

 

My point regarding yellow fever was made because with the facts available I don’t personally believe at this moment that you would be sharing any greater risk of transmitting to those that will have been lucky enough to be vaccinated as there is currently no proof that the vaccinated are less likely to spread the virus amongst themselves compared to those that aren’t so potential restrictions and or quarantine could possibly still have to apply even in the absence of the unvaccinated as the vaccinated can still get severely ill just in most cases not enough to require ventilators and intensive care. Several people  on other threads who can’t have it have even said that if a minor outbreak was to occur onboard they would self isolate in their cabins anyway so as not to put themselves at further risk of becoming gravely unwell, most also said they wouldn’t be socialising as they would have pre COVID and would want to maintain a level of distancing and mask wearing etc anyway especially in the direct presence of other unvaccinated passengers as they all understand the extra risk that they are taking. I just don’t think its right that they should be victimised and be made to feel like they are somehow threatening for something that they that have no choice over and there is currently no scientific evidence to prove otherwise, of course if the evidence was to change then I suspect many of them would probably also change their minds so as not to put others at unnecessary risk.

 

Apologies if that makes no sense my brain is working faster than my fingers tonight...