Vaccine passports ruled out for UK according to Daily Mail. GP's to provide proof.

[Eglesbrech]

5 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

Words are just that - words, and everyone has the right to express their personal opinion on any stage. However, I feel there is a huge difference between what any minister believes or assumes, and what will eventually be the governments policy on any matter, is very different. If we take everything any minister says as a true fact, even for a while, then we are going be sadly disappointed or very annoyed. I will wait and see as usual.

Avril

Words are not just words when they come from the minister with the relevant portfolio? This is the minister in charge of vaccines, not just “any” minister. What he says should be factual, surely?

[jeanlyon]

I had to smile when Zahawi said "no vaccine passports because they would be discriminatory"???  How would they be discriminatory?  Not being able to go on holiday because you haven't got a piece of paper or cert on your phone is discriminatory.

[joeecco]

2 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

I had to smile when Zahawi said "no vaccine passports because they would be discriminatory"???  How would they be discriminatory?  Not being able to go on holiday because you haven't got a piece of paper or cert on your phone is discriminatory.

You’ve answered your own question. 

[Eglesbrech]

1 minute ago, jeanlyon said:

I had to smile when Zahawi said "no vaccine passports because they would be discriminatory"???  How would they be discriminatory?  Not being able to go on holiday because you haven't got a piece of paper or cert on your phone is discriminatory.

Yes if you are not in the age group to get one as yet - age discrimination.

Yes if you have a health condition which precludes getting the current batch of vaccines - disability discrimination.

[Adawn47]

3 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Words are not just words when they come from the minister with the relevant portfolio? This is the minister in charge of vaccines, not just “any” minister. What he says should be factual, surely?

Factual yes,  but not neccessarily to be governmental policy. How many times have our scientists  been over-ridden by the government? I still maintain that in the end, no matter what any minister will say, the government will do what it considers ''best''.

So I will wait and, not speculate.( My little ode for today😊)

Avril

[jeanlyon]

OK, so they will prevent anone who has had the vaccination from going on holiday.  Bad news all round

[Eglesbrech]

Just now, Adawn47 said:

Factual yes,  but not neccessarily to be governmental policy. How many times have our scientists  been over-ridden by the government? I still maintain that in the end, no matter what any minister will say, the government will do what it considers ''best''.

So I will wait and, not speculate.( My little ode for today😊)

Avril

But ministers are the government. 

[Eglesbrech]

6 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

OK, so they will prevent anone who has had the vaccination from going on holiday.  Bad news all round

No, they are suggesting you annoy your already very busy GP to get confirmation of vaccine.

 

 

[P&O SUE]

1 hour ago, Adawn47 said:

Why is everyone playing Chinese Whispers?  Even the Government hasn't decided what it's going to do yet. It's all media speculation at the moment.

Avril

Avril, it’s what we do on here 😆

[Adawn47]

6 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

But ministers are the government. 

Zahawi is only one of them though, others will have differing opinions. 

Avril

[joeecco]

12 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

OK, so they will prevent anone who has had the vaccination from going on holiday.  Bad news all round

No they won’t, you aren’t seeing the bigger picture. The UK will not enforce passports as they are discriminatory but IF you need proof to enter another country the GP will be able to give you proof. It’s not bad news all round. 

[Eglesbrech]

Just now, Adawn47 said:

Zahawi is only one of them though, others will have differing opinions. 

Avril

So as the minister with the relevant portfolio he should not make a major policy statement on national television without cabinet consent.
 

Either he has that consent and what he said is government policy, or he is a rouge minister. Take your pick.

[hawkesbaynz]

11 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Yes if you are not in the age group to get one as yet - age discrimination.

Yes if you have a health condition which precludes getting the current batch of vaccines - disability discrimination.

 

Not may exclsion criiterias

Individuals for whom valid consent, or a ‘best-interests’ decision in accordance with the Mental Capacity Act 2005, has not been obtained.. Individuals who: • are less than 18 years of age • have had a previous systemic allergic reaction (including immediate onset anaphylaxis) to a previous dose of COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca or to any component of the vaccine or residues from the manufacturing process6 • are pregnant (see Additional Information) • are suffering from acute severe febrile illness (the presence of a minor infection is not a contraindication for vaccination) • are participating in a clinical trial of COVID-19 vaccines • have received a dose of COVID-19 vaccine in the preceding 28 days

 

The issue with the under 18 yrs and pregnant is that the vaccine was not tested on them. Likely no biologically reason not to in the same way as other child immunisations and those that pregnant women are encouraged to get... watch this space. Thus not many exclusions.

 

My experience of giving the vaccines was that a sizeable minority of people who came for second vaccination forgot the card but were reassured that it would be in their notes. Which it is if their GP practice immunises them although I cannot vouch for the immunisations centres.

 

Shame if it is discriminatory not to have a vaccine. Tough! I for one wish to return to some normalcy and if people choose to refuse vaccines and depend on the rest of us to get vaccinated and build up herd immunity for their benefit, yep they shouldn't travel on planes, take cruises, and perhaps not get government benefits too.

 

 

[yorkshirephil]

26 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Yes if you are not in the age group to get one as yet - age discrimination.

Yes if you have a health condition which precludes getting the current batch of vaccines - disability discrimination.

Where do you draw the line with discrimination? if not being able to cruise because you cannot have the vaccine is discriminatory then surely P&O are discriminating in the same way by refusing a cruise to people that need supplementary oxygen or mechanical ventilation support. 

[zap99]

9 minutes ago, joeecco said:

No they won’t, you aren’t seeing the bigger picture. The UK will not enforce passports as they are discriminatory but IF you need proof to enter another country the GP will be able to give you proof. It’s not bad news all round. 

I have a small cardboard booklet with my vaccination details on it, strangely called a vaccination record. Nobody has ever even looked at it and as far as I know there is not a load of spivs forging them. When I get my jab next week ,I understand  I will be given a card with my vaccination details on it. I hope my vaccination will stop me catching it. If somebody who isn't vaccinated obtains a fake card, to my simple mind that means they are at risk, not me.

[yorkshirephil]

1 minute ago, zap99 said:

I have a small cardboard booklet with my vaccination details on it, strangely called a vaccination record. Nobody has ever even looked at it and as far as I know there is not a load of spivs forging them. When I get my jab next week ,I understand  I will be given a card with my vaccination details on it. I hope my vaccination will stop me catching it. If somebody who isn't vaccinated obtains a fake card, to my simple mind that means they are at risk, not me.

Probably the same booklet I have, however if you go to a country for which a Yellow fever vaccine is required they do look at the certificate as that is important to them which for the foreseeable future the covid certificate/card/passport will be. As you say someone with a fake document is more at risk than someone who has been vaccinated, but you are more at risk from someone who hasn't been vaccinated than someone that has.

[Adawn47]

Just now, Eglesbrech said:

So as the minister with the relevant portfolio he should not make a major policy statement on national television without cabinet consent.
 

Either he has that consent and what he said is government policy, or he is a rouge minister. Take your pick.

No, that's not what I'm saying, you've misunderstood. I was only stating that I won't get myself worked up about things that haven't yet happened, purely because a minister gave his opinion on tv. My wait and see approach is my opinion. No offence meant Eglesbrech.🙂

Avril

[zap99]

3 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

Probably the same booklet I have, however if you go to a country for which a Yellow fever vaccine is required they do look at the certificate as that is important to them which for the foreseeable future the covid certificate/card/passport will be. As you say someone with a fake document is more at risk than someone who has been vaccinated, but you are more at risk from someone who hasn't been vaccinated than someone that has.

Phil. I get that, thanks. Once tourist destinations start to open up, I imagine they will have their rules. I doubt they will be too restrictive as they will want our money. We will need to adapt to meet their procedures.

[Eglesbrech]

15 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

Where do you draw the line with discrimination? if not being able to cruise because you cannot have the vaccine is discriminatory then surely P&O are discriminating in the same way by refusing a cruise to people that need supplementary oxygen or mechanical ventilation support. 
 

I don’t know where you draw the line. 

 

Personally I’ll have my vaccine as soon as it is offered to me so in some respects “I’m alright Jack”. I’ll get to travel, eat out etc.
 

I do however feel that as a civilised nation we should consider all of our citizens. If people can have a vaccine and refuse, that’s their choice as are any resulting consequences. If they have yet to be offered one or have genuine medical issues why they can’t then, for me, that is different - it’s not “tough” as one contributor feels.

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Eglesbrech

[yorkshirephil]

3 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Phil. I get that, thanks. Once tourist destinations start to open up, I imagine they will have their rules. I doubt they will be too restrictive as they will want our money. We will need to adapt to meet their procedures.

The adapting to meet the rules is exactly what we will need to do and I don't really think it is any big deal, even if it costs us a few quid extra, there will be some confusion initially as change does that. It will quickly become the norm and we will forget about it. 

[zap99]

1 minute ago, yorkshirephil said:

The adapting to meet the rules is exactly what we will need to do and I don't really think it is any big deal, even if it costs us a few quid extra, there will be some confusion initially as change does that. It will quickly become the norm and we will forget about it. 

I will much prefer a vaccination passport to the need to provide a recent PCR test result. One test before leaving the UK. One before leaving Vancouver for the Alaska cruise. One one the cruise before getting back to Canada. Another somewhere in our Rockies tour before flying back to Heathrow. Passport please🤔

[Eglesbrech]

33 minutes ago, hawkesbaynz said:

Not may exclsion criiterias

Not many but as you acknowledge, some and that’s the folks I’m concerned about. This is potentially broader than just being excluded from holidays abroad.

 

Do you know how long it takes to get a simple intervention order in the current backlog in civil courts? Try looking it up.

[Bazrat]

The amount of extra work the doctors would have to do would actually fall on the medical secretory who actually writes the notes gathers the information than passes it onto the doctor to sign, every time you get an hospital appointment blood test etc the medical secretory does it so think of the extra work that would fall on them. 

[Eglesbrech]

2 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

The amount of extra work the doctors would have to do would actually fall on the medical secretory who actually writes the notes gathers the information than passes it onto the doctor to sign, every time you get an hospital appointment blood test etc the medical secretory does it so think of the extra work that would fall on them. 

Yes probably but I’m sure they are also already busy enough. I don’t know of any who sit all day twiddling their thumbs 😀

[Chrisdriving]

I cannot see how they can stop people without a vaccine travelling, Coronavirus is here forever, they are saying a yearly jab will probably be required, the Oxford vaccine is already compromised against the SA strain and is being reworked and ready by August so previous peoples jabs are much less effective.

 

So if a yearly jab is needed like the Flu to keep current protection how do you Vaccinate the whole population every year? It wont happen.

 

Need to learn to live with Coronavirus as we wont erradicate it.

 

Vaccinate those considered a greater risk of being unwell and let others just get on with it, the corner we have backed ourselves in to hiding from the Virus is ludicrous.

 

People will sadly die from Covid every year as they do with other diseases, targeted Vaccination will limit those numbers and quite rightly so.

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Chrisdriving