Let the Exceptions Begin!

[ilikeanswers]

19 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

I would like to see some real examples of government appropriation of business without compensation in places like the US, Australia and Europe.  I do recognize that  COVID regulations and edicts put a lot of people out of out of business in the name of public health, but this is somewhat different to me than what happens in countries with less robust legal systems and were confiscations of assets happen when someone runs afoul of politicians.  

 

In Australia it is not uncommon to have farms appropriated by gas companies with no compensation, just recently a case was settled in the state of Queensland for 40 years worth of wages that state government "appropriated" from Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders. If a government project is going to be built where your house is you get a tiny handout, they certainly don't pay the value of the property. I haven't deep dived all the countries in Europe or USA but I've heard some cases that are similar. Couple of years ago in Poland the government appropriated a horse breeding farm😳, no idea why but apparently it went from a world class breeding place to nothing 😂.

 

But it doesn't have to be government appropriation. You look at the case of Flint in USA, the government changes the water source it completely devalues property prices. For years while the water remained undrinkable people couldn't sell their houses to move out. In Australia property insurance is withdrawing coverage in many areas due to climate change risk. So people whose houses burn down or get flooded out can't afford to rebuild and their land is unsellable because it is considered red zoned so they essentially lose everything due to a decision that was out of their control and no one is compensating them. To me I regard these things the same as someone directly seizing your assets. 

[2wheelin]

2 hours ago, SelectSys said:

I would like to see some real examples of government appropriation of business without compensation in places like the US, Australia and Europe.  I do recognize that  COVID regulations and edicts put a lot of people out of out of business in the name of public health, but this is somewhat different to me than what happens in countries with less robust legal systems and were confiscations of assets happen when someone runs afoul of politicians.  

It happens all the time when roads are widened or new ones are put in. Farm lands are appropriated all the time in the US.  My family had to build a new house because the highway dept wanted their land. My friend just lost their first farm to an interchange. 

[clo]

18 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

It happens all the time when roads are widened or new ones are put in. Farm lands are appropriated all the time in the US.  My family had to build a new house because the highway dept wanted their land. My friend just lost their first farm to an interchange. 

It happened years ago in my family also. At least twice.

[SelectSys]

3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

just recently a case was settled in the state of Queensland for 40 years worth of wages that state government "appropriated" from Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders

Interesting story.  I guess the courts decided it was time for compensation.  Not sure whether it was fair or not.

 

3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

In Australia it is not uncommon to have farms appropriated by gas companies with no compensation

Crazy, how does that happen today?  It's must be like California when William Mulholland and the LADWP went up into the Owens River valley to get water for LA.

 

3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

You look at the case of Flint in USA, the government changes the water source it completely devalues property prices

That is a great example of gross governmental mismanagement.  Not sure what kinds of claims are winding through the courts.  I would also suggest depressed property values in Flint stem from problems above and beyond the water system.  Globalization and offshoring of manufacturing certainly haven't helped Flint.

https://newrepublic.com/article/150032/abandonment-flint

 

3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

In Australia property insurance is withdrawing coverage in many areas due to climate change risk

This happened to me in CA due to wild fire risk  in 2019.  I was able to find coverage from another provider.  I did look into it and I believe that CA has a program for those who can't find coverage on the private market. 

 

Fortunately, real estate prices in my part of CA remain incredibly robust for the moment regardless of the wild fire risk.  I guess not so fortunate for those looking to purchase a house.

 

2 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

It happens all the time when roads are widened or new ones are put in. Farm lands are appropriated all the time in the US.  My family had to build a new house because the highway dept wanted their land. My friend just lost their first farm to an interchange

Yes, I am aware of eminent domain.  I guess perspectives will differ as to the value of the compensation provided by the property owner.   I am also aware that eminent domain is abused at times for private developments with local government support.  However, I would distinguish eminent domain from the actions of other governments that comes in and offers no compensation, takes property and even puts people in jail.

 

It's not that abuses don't happen everywhere, but to think that all governments are the same in regard to respecting private property rights just doesn't ring true to me.

 

[ldubs]

8 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Since we are often away for up to 6 months and avoid using campground toilet blocks, we use the shower frequently. Still get a week out of the tanks, with the grey tanks 60 gals.

 

Our 2 dogs (GSD & Lab) commander the living room couch and get somewhat indignant when we have visitors, and have to use the dog beds.

 

You are taking some pretty epic trips.  We are out for two, three days tops.  We do go to places without hook-ups but so far there have always been shower facilities.  We bring a bag of quarters.  Haha.  

 

We are pretty lucky to have a lot of great options relatively close to home.  We have short trips booked once or twice a month through August.   We have talked about a longer trip  but nothing concrete yet.   

 

I'm thinking I am probably going off topic from the other off topic discussion that was happening.  😀   Sorry about that.   

[ilikeanswers]

8 hours ago, SelectSys said:

It's not that abuses don't happen everywhere, but to think that all governments are the same in regard to respecting private property rights just doesn't ring true to me.

 

I don't think anyone is saying that but the point I was making at least is that no country as far as I'm aware doesn't have ways to take away the rewards of hard work and the reality is unless someone has closed those loop holes there is really no reason it can't happen again. 

[SelectSys]

41 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I don't think anyone is saying that but the point I was making at least is that no country as far as I'm aware doesn't have ways to take away the rewards of hard work and the reality is unless someone has closed those loop holes there is really no reason it can't happen again. 

Ok.  You might want to look at this survey site that attempts to measure the rule of law worldwide:

https://worldjusticeproject.org/rule-of-law-index/

 

[Heidi13]

12 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

You are taking some pretty epic trips.  We are out for two, three days tops.  We do go to places without hook-ups but so far there have always been shower facilities.  We bring a bag of quarters.  Haha.  

 

We are pretty lucky to have a lot of great options relatively close to home.  We have short trips booked once or twice a month through August.   We have talked about a longer trip  but nothing concrete yet.   

 

I'm thinking I am probably going off topic from the other off topic discussion that was happening.  😀   Sorry about that.   

 

We are envious of being able to take short/local trips, but did make the decision when we purchased the RV that our trips would focus on the longer haul. Our friends have one of those little teardrop caravans, so we drive out and visit them at their site for a day.

 

We have huge tanks and a solar panel, but can really only survive 1 night on battery. Roughing it for us is when we have to use the 30 amp adapter.😀

[Toofarfromthesea]

19 hours ago, dreamercruise said:

To me, freedom is a special privilege (e.g., speech, religion, and etc.,) that I can enjoy here in United States.  I cannot say the same in other countries under dictatorship-like leadership. In some countries, the fortune that you accumulate over your lifetime of honest hard work can be taken away overnight without any good reasons.  This why I think of freedom as a privilege.  Do not confuse it with entitlement.

It is neither a privelege, nor an entitlement.  It is a RIGHT.  And just because that right is not recognized in most times and places does not change that.  What IS a PRIVELEGE  is living in a nation that recognizes and attempts to protect that right.  Although that seems to be diminishing.

[ldubs]

18 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

This happened to me in CA due to wild fire risk  in 2019.  I was able to find coverage from another provider.  I did look into it and I believe that CA has a program for those who can't find coverage on the private market. 

 

 

 

California FAIR Plan provides property coverage in brush/wildfire areas where private market options are not available.   Being a FAIR Plan, they do not really underwrite, but they do have a system of surcharges if brush/wildfire clearances are not maintained.   

[ilikeanswers]

11 hours ago, SelectSys said:

Ok.  You might want to look at this survey site that attempts to measure the rule of law worldwide:

https://worldjusticeproject.org/rule-of-law-index/

 

 

I never it was against the law🙄, that was actually the point 😂. 

[SelectSys]

19 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I never it was against the law🙄, that was actually the point 😂. 

People could take others land in Australia and not be compensated in anyway?  Does Australia separate ownership rights?  For example mineral, water and land are all considered to be separate property?  I think this is possible in the US and maybe Canada as well.

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, SelectSys said:

People could take others land in Australia and not be compensated in anyway?  Does Australia separate ownership rights?  For example mineral, water and land are all considered to be separate property?  I think this is possible in the US and maybe Canada as well.

 

I don't know enough about USA and Canada to compare and it also depends on state law. Because of the gas grab happens in NSW I know more about that than what happens in other states though I have heard of issues in WA with minerals. In regards to water management that is actually a pretty complicated issue. You would have to deep dive each community and most of my knowledge is only around the Artesian Basin and Snowy Hydro. I've been deleted too many times to put my energy into writing a full run down of the system. If it is something you are interested best to find a forum on the topic🤗. 

[SelectSys]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

...  I've been deleted too many times to put my energy into writing a full run down of the system. If it is something you are interested best to find a forum on the topic🤗. 

No worries.  Thanks for the bit of information.  If you scratch the surface of property rights in the US it gets quite interesting.  Often times it is a case of "might makes right."  

[clo]

2 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

I've been deleted too many times to put my energy into writing a full run down of the system.

I posted a new announcement from CDC about their extension of the no sail until November. It's gone and I have no idea why. All I did was link to it.

[ilikeanswers]

25 minutes ago, clo said:

I posted a new announcement from CDC about their extension of the no sail until November. It's gone and I have no idea why. All I did was link to it.

 

That happened once to me too. I started a thread on topic about cruising and next day it was gone😳. I started it again and that time no delete😂. It would be nice if they provided a reason when they delete. Some deletes don't seem to make sense. 

[mammajamma2013]

12 hours ago, clo said:

I posted a new announcement from CDC about their extension of the no sail until November. It's gone and I have no idea why. All I did was link to it.

Your post is still there, the link isn''t. There is also a reply correcting the information.

[ldubs]

13 hours ago, clo said:

I posted a new announcement from CDC about their extension of the no sail until November. It's gone and I have no idea why. All I did was link to it.

 

I thought you asked the Mods to remove it.  Or is that something else.  I've also seen many posts disappear.  Reason is typically because the thread goes sideways.   Glad we have the Mods. Probably one of the most thankless jobs around.   

Edited March 29, 2021 by ldubs

[clo]

41 minutes ago, mammajamma2013 said:

Your post is still there, the link isn''t. There is also a reply correcting the information.

Could you share the CC link please?