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CDC denies cruise sector's request to lift US sailing restrictions


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10 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

Yes, I understand what you are getting at.  The idea of finding another - or more - sources establishes if the story is real news or someone trying to stir the pot.  I didn't mean to imply support of Sun-Sentinel organization.  Appreciate your thoughts on it, but I have not really consumed their product much at all.

 

 

If you could find it, the Wall Street Journal several months ago had a series of investigative reporting on the origins of the Pandemic Crisis in our country.  It is worth reading.  

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irrespective of anybody's feelings  on this, this video linked below  tell us the CDC directors position. She's not buying into letting cruise ships in and out of US ports anytime soon. She will either be right or wrong.  And with her emotion on this I'd say even Nov 1 is at risk.  Whether its her or a superior--not too many of them, this sounds like the real  policy.

 

plan accordingly, is all you can do. Which is what the Senator asking her last week wanted to know-give us a feeling as to whats happening.  I'd just like to know the process--if a cruise ship changes to a different sail and return port does the  existing cruise just get cancelled and is marketed as a new one? And does the air fare per person on a 1250 PP cruise jump to 1,000 and and miles cannot be used due to hi demand ? I saw one cruise line offer an option open for a few days to shift to the new one, including the same cabin,  before marketing.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 3/29/2021 at 6:08 AM, stevenr597 said:

Dr. Fauci's job is to provide advice to the elected officials in our country.  He has done that for several different administrations. At times he gave rather poor advice to Obama in respect to his management of the H1N1 Flu Pandemic as well as Ebola. 
 

 

Dr. Fauci is the Director of the NIAI (since 1984) which promotes itself this way...

 

NIAID has established a reputation for being on the cutting edge of scientific progress both through its intramural labs and through the research it funds at academic institutions.[13] For example, NIAID collaborations with various partners led to the development of FDA-approved vaccines for influenza (FluMist), hepatitis A (Havrix), and rotavirus (RotaShield)....

 

Additionally, NIAID partnerships with industry and academia have led to the advancement of diagnostic tests for several important infectious diseases, including malaria (ParaSight F), tuberculosis (GeneXpert MTB/RIF), and norovirus (Ridascreen Norovirus 3rd Generation EIA).”

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Institute_of_Allergy_and_Infectious_Diseases

 

Perhaps Fauci is taking credit for the vast $$$ advanced to pharma for covid development and deployment?

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/22/health/us-coronavirus-vaccine-funding/index.html

 

 

"And that's when it became very clear that the decision we made on January the 10th – to go all out and develop a vaccine – may have been the best decision that I've ever made with regard to an intervention as director of the institute," the infectious disease expert added.”

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14484532/fauci-trump-no-credit-covid-vaccine-best-decision/

 

 

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On 3/29/2021 at 12:18 PM, Steelers36 said:

If/When this happens, there will be multiple stories as with everything in politics.

Couldn’t find your post, but sorry I meant to say FL has the most deadly variants than any other state, not more cases total of covid.  Anyway, just disappointed that it was so open to spring breakers to spread the variants.  Let’s hope they get their vaccines when they return home.

Heres just one of the articles on the variant.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/3-states-most-deadly-covid-171523734.html

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, PacnGoNow said:

Couldn’t find your post, but sorry I meant to say FL has the most deadly variants than any other state, not more cases total of Covid.  Anyway, just disappointed that it was so open to spring breakers to spread the variants.  Let’s hope they get their vaccines when they return home.

Here's just one of the articles on the variant.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/3-states-most-deadly-covid-171523734.html

 

 

 

And, as I posted earlier, how do you stop people from coming to FL, or any other State?  Perhaps Myrtle Beach will become the next crowded beach.  There were plenty of reports of police action in SE FL recently.

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The thing you have to remember is logic doesn't apply here. One you get past the conspiracy buffs who blame the Chinese for the Pandemic or the Democrats for a phony Pandemic, much of the rest of the country (and a few other places in the world) Blame the Cruise industry (if not Specifically the Royal Princess) fot the Pandemic. There isn't a politician or political appointee who would touch this with a ten foot pole.

 

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1 hour ago, TNTLAMB said:

The thing you have to remember is logic doesn't apply here. One you get past the conspiracy buffs who blame the Chinese for the Pandemic or the Democrats for a phony Pandemic, much of the rest of the country (and a few other places in the world) Blame the Cruise industry (if not Specifically the Royal Princess) fot the Pandemic. There isn't a politician or political appointee who would touch this with a ten foot pole.

 

Cruise industry contributed very little overall. The Biogen conference in Boston has led to perhaps over 300K infections. There you go..A Pharmaceutical co. contributing to the pandemic.

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Blame game is a fools errand. Pandemic happened and the world has to live and cope with it. We’re very lucky in Australia that we are an island continent so it was easy to monitor pax in and pax out.

With cruises booked at the end of the year in and around New Zealand and Australia (our travel bubble) I hope that the Royal/Coral and Sapphire will be able to leave US waters to come here. 

Ours will be the 12th cruise to happen so if there are any problems/breaches of protocol/outbreaks I’m sure they will be halted without a second thought.

Won’t need your CDC to tell us. 

Carnival has ONE CHANCE to get this right and if they fail, the the cruise industry in Australia will be kaput.

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17 minutes ago, heddyjan said:

 

With cruises booked at the end of the year in and around New Zealand and Australia (our travel bubble) I hope that the Royal/Coral and Sapphire will be able to leave US waters to come here. 

Ours will be the 12th cruise to happen so if there are any problems/breaches of protocol/outbreaks I’m sure they will be halted without a second thought.

Won’t need your CDC to tell us. 

Carnival has ONE CHANCE to get this right and if they fail, the the cruise industry in Australia will be kaput.

 

They can leave US waters to go to Australia and New Zealand with no problem at the US end. At worst, they travel without passengers.

 

But the main question is will Australia and New Zealand allow them to come.

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16 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Who do you think is to blame?  Or do you assess any blame at all?

 

Did any government purposely plan this.  While one can never rule anything completely out, the evidence seems to point against this.

Who to blame....it is, in the end, the virus, which operates in the natural order of things.  Viruses live by infecting living organisms.  That is what they do.

Did countries make mistakes....the answer is yes.  But we must remember that it is the government's not the people of any one country. 

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21 hours ago, TNTLAMB said:

The thing you have to remember is logic doesn't apply here. One you get past the conspiracy buffs who blame the Chinese for the Pandemic or the Democrats for a phony Pandemic, much of the rest of the country (and a few other places in the world) Blame the Cruise industry (if not Specifically the Royal Princess) fot the Pandemic. There isn't a politician or political appointee who would touch this with a ten foot pole.

 

There were no cases on the Royal.  I was on the last cruise of the Royal prior to the shutdown.  There were cases on the Diamond, Grand, Ruby but not the Royal Princess.

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1 hour ago, nocl said:

There were no cases on the Royal.  I was on the last cruise of the Royal prior to the shutdown.  There were cases on the Diamond, Grand, Ruby but not the Royal Princess.

Correct it was the ruby my mistake

 

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20 hours ago, rbtan said:

Cruise industry contributed very little overall. The Biogen conference in Boston has led to perhaps over 300K infections. There you go..A Pharmaceutical co. contributing to the pandemic.

I won't argue with that BUT public perception and "Politics" defy ALL logic.....

 

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42 minutes ago, TNTLAMB said:

I won't argue with that BUT public perception and "Politics" defy ALL logic.....

 

The Australian's might disagree.  The Ruby resulted in about 10% of all of the early cases in Australia, plus an outbreak in one of the port towns in New Zealand.

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this was just sent to me from my PCP after I sent her the article above

 

Progress in getting legislation passed so that we can bypass Canada as a foreign port, due to the Passenger Services Act.   We are gearing up, more talk about

Trial runs on the ships soon, sounding more promising, but nothing more definitive.   Still targeting July 1 for limited durations/itineraries.    Let’s see….

 

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Bottom line is the cruise lines will only survive if they take control of their future  business . This could very well mean that future cruises will be generated from & to foreign ports   & not US ports until this pandemic is well under control  .It may never be totally eradicated  very much like the  yearly flu because the  corona virus  has been mutating into different variants  .Thus ,it could mean a yearly booster shot  again like the yearly flu shot   .so where does the position our CDC ,that is a huge question going forward  . 

 

 imo ,it is not the CDC that will bail out or sink the cruise industry but ,the  business decisions made by the  CEOs & their management teams in each of the cruise   corporations .

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On 4/1/2021 at 11:16 AM, HappyInVan said:

CDC did not recommend public use of N95 masks because of the low incidence of covid at the time. It only takes five minutes to discover a CDC transcript from late January. Uppercase added for emphasis...

 

“Dr. Nancy Messonnier: ...Again, that is part of our layered approach to early detection and response to each case in the united states. Last, I want to emphasize what Dr. Redfield said. AT THIS TIME, WE ONLY HAVE SIX CASES OF NOVEL CORONAVIRUS IN THE UNITED STATES... Despite the fact that we are reporting the first instance of person-to-person spread of this virus in the united states, it’s important to note that this spread was among two people who were in close contact for an extended period of time... This is a very serious public health situation... We want to lean forward and be aggressive, but we want our actions to be evidence-based and appropriate to the current circumstance. For example, CDC does not currently recommend the use of face masks for the general public. THE VIRUS IS NOT SPREADING IN THE GENERAL COMMUNITY. While it is cold and flu season, we don’t routinely recommend the use of face masks by the public to prevent respiratory illness and certainly are not recommending that at this time for this new virus... We have extensive guidance and information on our website at www.cdc.gov/ncov. AS WE HAVE SAID THIS SITUATION CONTINUES TO EVOLVE SOMETIMES HOUR BY HOUR AND DAY BY DAY AND OUR WEBSITE REMAINS THE BEST UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION.”

 

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/t0130-novel-coronavirus-update-telebriefing.html

 

By April 3, CDC commended cloth masks.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/03/826219824/president-trump-says-cdc-now-recommends-americans-wear-cloth-masks-in-public

 

April 9, the Wyoming National Guard shows how to make cloth masks for yourself...

 

 

 

In late April, CDC wanted Americans to avoid non-essential travel till Phase 3. But, you know how it was in the WH...

 

https://www.the-sun.com/news/823423/white-house-buried-cdc-against-summer-vacation/

 

IMO, the CDC could have saved hundreds of thousands of American lives if people had followed their advise to mask, distance, and avoid travel. We wouldn't be so worried about variants today.

 

Pointing out what Fauci and the CDC said eventually, while ignoring what is being talked about, what they said from January through mid-March, is a blatant logical fallacy called a straw-man argument.

 

If you can't be a cheerleader for the CDC without resorting to these sorts of dodges; maybe you should reconsider your blind faith in them.

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44 minutes ago, Tolkmit said:

 

Pointing out what Fauci and the CDC said eventually, while ignoring what is being talked about, what they said from January through mid-March, is a blatant logical fallacy called a straw-man argument.

 

If you can't be a cheerleader for the CDC without resorting to these sorts of dodges; maybe you should reconsider your blind faith in them.

 

I've already replied to you in post 190 ...

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2775508-cdc-denies-cruise-sectors-request-to-lift-us-sailing-restrictions/page/8/?tab=comments#comment-60949185

 

 

Obviously. I have confidence in the medical scientists, and not the Facebook doctors and Twitter scientists.

 

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23 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

I've already replied to you in post 190 ...

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2775508-cdc-denies-cruise-sectors-request-to-lift-us-sailing-restrictions/page/8/?tab=comments#comment-60949185

 

 

Obviously. I have confidence in the medical scientists, and not the Facebook doctors and Twitter scientists.

 

 

You made a post that talked more about stuff said in April (irrelevant), and emphasized a single statement made in January while ignoring the fact the CDC held the same position for months even after all the initial qualifiers made in a single statement were no longer true. It was just more straw man fallacies.

 

Which medical scientist had a study showing that airlines using the same bridge to the plane for 10+ separate groups of passengers over a 12 hour period was safe; but cruise lines doing the same for 2 groups of passengers wasn't? Obviously, none of them did. Because you aren't putting your faith in medical scientists, you are putting your faith in the CDC. You are just going on faith that every policy & decision they make is fair and backed up by science, despite overwhelming evidence and basic common sense making it obvious that isn't true.

You also seem to be working under the assumption that the CDC's goal is to allow cruising to resume when it's safe to do so. All while ignoring the reality, that cruising has NEVER been completely safe! Not 100%. There has always been a small chance of someone bringing on board influenza, norovirus, or some antibiotic resistant superbug and it being spread on the ship. It's just that the chances of that happening were always about the same as they are on land. Now, with Covid-19, you support them keeping cruising closed until science says it's "safe." Ignoring that being an impossible goal. The data says, cruises are, right now with current plans in place, safer than being on land when it comes to chances of catching Covid-19. That's always been good enough in the past. The CDC has decided, not based on any scientific study, but purely as a political policy decision, for cruise lines exclusively that is no longer an acceptable level of safety. Every study shows that flights are still a small risk; CDC allows them. Trains are still a small risk; CDC allows them. Amusement parks are still a small risk; CDC allows them. Hotels are still a small risk, CDC allows them. Cruising is still a small risk, but CDC shuts them down. Supporting the CDC isn't supporting science, it's supporting that political policy.

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