Florida Looking to Push Back Against CDC

[nocl]

4 hours ago, Etta1213 said:

The governor of FL has no authority regarding what the cruise line requires. He's against businesses in FL such as restaurants, movie theaters, etc etc requiring that a customer has to show proof of vaccination in order to be allowed in. For one thing, it would violate hippa laws. Scary slippery slope. 

Actually it would not violate HIPAA.  HIPAA does not allow your medical records to be released without your permission.  In this case you would control the release of that information and you could choose not to provide them with your vaccination status.  Of course as that point they could refuse you access.

If you did provide it, then it was released by you so no violation of HIPAA.

 

It is also not a violation of discrimination law since unvaccinated is not a protected class.  So as long as they apply the rules consistently to all sexes, ages, races, sexual orientation, etc.  no problem.

[nocl]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Given what I read on here daily, I am pessimistic about whether people understand the difference in degree though.

 

CDC advisories still say travelers should avoid all travel to a number of destinations (Level 4) that cruise ships would be sailing to within the next couple of months and even more would fall into that group if you include Level 3 (avoid all non-essential travel).

 

Some Level 4 countries: Antigua, Greece, Aruba, Haiti, Puerto Rico, Israel, St. Lucia, St. Martin, Italy, Jamaica, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Turks & Caicos, Martinique, Curacao, Mexico, etc.

 

And the Bahamas, where one ship is supposed to be based is a Level 3...

 

 

Considering the number of people climbing on planes most really do not care what the CDC recommends anyway.

[nocl]

2 hours ago, ArizonatoFlorida said:

The governor of Florida just issued an executive order stating no business can require a vaccine passport in order to enter.  But he order also states.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, Ron DeSantis, as Governor of Florida, by virtue of the authority vested in me by Article IV, Section 1(a) of the Florida Constitution and by the Florida Emergency Management Act, as amended, and all other applicable laws, promulgate the following Executive Order:

No Florida government entity, or its subdivisions, agents, or assigns, shall be permitted to issue vaccine passports, vaccine passes, or other standardized documentation for the purpose of certifying an individual’s COVID-19 vaccination status to a third party, or otherwise publish or share any individual’s COVID-19 vaccination record or similar health information."

So if Floridians want to travel to a state or country that does require a vaccine passport or proof of vaccine, what could we do?

 

technically based upon that the counties shouldn't even be handing out  the CDC Covid vaccination card when someone gets vaccinated.

[AncientWanderer]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Given what I read on here daily, I am pessimistic about whether people understand the difference in degree though.

 

CDC advisories still say travelers should avoid all travel to a number of destinations (Level 4) that cruise ships would be sailing to within the next couple of months and even more would fall into that group if you include Level 3 (avoid all non-essential travel).

 

Some Level 4 countries: Antigua, Greece, Aruba, Haiti, Puerto Rico, Israel, St. Lucia, St. Martin, Italy, Jamaica, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Turks & Caicos, Martinique, Curacao, Mexico, etc.

 

And the Bahamas, where one ship is supposed to be based is a Level 3...

 

 

 

What level are we now here in U.S.?

I'm not being facetious.  I really don't know.  I was surprised, when I looked at CDC website,  to see how crummy my own county is doing.  Is my risk increased by going to some of these places?   (Other than, of course, not having my home healthcare available.)  I actually thought Israel was doing better than us.  A lot of countries won't allow people from the U.S.

I guess your post implies that these places are scary.  But we're scary, too.

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Based on the precise wording given above, though, it sounds as if Florida agencies would not be allowed to issue a vaccine passport or pass even to an individual requesting it if the purpose is to certify their status to a third party (e.g., a cruise line).

 

So...if the cruise lines mandate a specific proof of vaccination, something more tamper-proof than a card let's say, how would a Florida resident who wants to cruise obtain one?

Good question. Some of the databases are tied to the Fed side, but if the executive order cuts that off, and no one can prove to any other state or country they are vaccinated...some people aren't going to be happy with the Florida Gov.

[cruisemom42]

20 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

I guess your post implies that these places are scary.  But we're scary, too.

 

Yes, we are.

 

And I don't travel domestically either and have not for over a year.

 

[cruisemom42]

1 minute ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Yes, we are.

 

And I don't travel domestically either and have not for over a year. My company (a large pharma co)  has not allowed domestic travel OR international travel and anyone non-essential has been working from home since middle of March 2020. They have better insights into what is or isn't safe than most and they take the no travel thing very seriously...

 

 

 

 

[T8NCruise]

2 hours ago, ArizonatoFlorida said:

The governor of Florida just issued an executive order stating no business can require a vaccine passport in order to enter.  But he order also states.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, Ron DeSantis, as Governor of Florida, by virtue of the authority vested in me by Article IV, Section 1(a) of the Florida Constitution and by the Florida Emergency Management Act, as amended, and all other applicable laws, promulgate the following Executive Order:

No Florida government entity, or its subdivisions, agents, or assigns, shall be permitted to issue vaccine passports, vaccine passes, or other standardized documentation for the purpose of certifying an individual’s COVID-19 vaccination status to a third party, or otherwise publish or share any individual’s COVID-19 vaccination record or similar health information."

So if Floridians want to travel to a state or country that does require a vaccine passport or proof of vaccine, what could we do?

 

Wow, he's really up on himself, isn't he?  If I lived there, I'd be really worried.  Common sense is out the window, as are simple precautions.  Guess you are out of luck if you want to travel anywhere that needs proof of vaccine.

[kiwimum]

This was released by the CDC earlier this afternoon: 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/instructions-local-agreements.html?fbclid=IwAR0OW6cYoKQaG-JrVrMbOyCZmMXnrJqYqI54PU8gw9yeNxzPA8x1VqZVMHk

[AncientWanderer]

8 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Yes, we are.

 

And I don't travel domestically either and have not for over a year.

 

 

That's fair.  I certainly have been hunkered down, too.  But with vaccinations, I'm doing new risk analysis.  Safest is at home.  But I'm vaccinated and tired of staying home.  Perhaps some destinations have less covid than we do.  Time to factor that in.  A small, fully vaccinated cruise to an island with less covid than us?  H'mmm...maybe.  

I really don't know what's best -- other than home alone -- but there are various valid ways to proceed.

[wdw1972]

As a FL resident I don't agree with the governor's anti-vaccine passport view.  Perhaps to get around it, cruise lines can do a useless questionnaire at embarkation - asking passengers if they've been fully vaccinated, and then once in waters outside of the jurisdiction of FL require proof.  Those who don't have it can be hoisted off the ship - to a waiting boat if the cruise line wants to spend the money, or left to swim back if they don't 😉  

 

Sue/WDW1972

[wdw1972]

One other thing - this executive order banning cruise vaccines expires when the order declaring covid an emergency expires.  That's done for 60 days at a time - it's been extended each time since it was issued March of 2020.  But, if we get to the point that enough people are vaccinated & cases are down, we may no longer be under a "state of emergency" and this latest order will expire as well - one can only hope!

 

Sue/WDW1972

[AncientWanderer]

6 minutes ago, wdw1972 said:

As a FL resident I don't agree with the governor's anti-vaccine passport view.  Perhaps to get around it, cruise lines can do a useless questionnaire at embarkation - asking passengers if they've been fully vaccinated, and then once in waters outside of the jurisdiction of FL require proof.  Those who don't have it can be hoisted off the ship - to a waiting boat if the cruise line wants to spend the money, or left to swim back if they don't 😉  

 

Sue/WDW1972

 

You are probably getting more local news about this.  Reading about it here in California, it sounds like anti big government theater.  I get that your governor doesn't want an app that is tied to Big Brother and Knows All...but couldn't people still just be required by certain businesses to show their simple vaccination card?  

[Horizon chaser 1957]

7 hours ago, T8NCruise said:

Fortunately, here in BC vaccinating ramped up so fast that we are at 65+ now and with more vaccine coming soon we can hopefully get to the young 'uns!

I live in British Columbia, and as of today the current vaccine eligibility age is 72+. There are some pharmacies in the Lower Mainland only that have a limited supply of Astra Zeneca that is about to expire that is being given to 55 - 65 yr olds ASAP. Most people 65 - 72 are not eligible yet. I’m guessing your BC is short for something else?

[wdw1972]

7 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

 

You are probably getting more local news about this.  Reading about it here in California, it sounds like anti big government theater.  I get that your governor doesn't want an app that is tied to Big Brother and Knows All...but couldn't people still just be required by certain businesses to show their simple vaccination card?  

I'm a state employee, so I get the press releases.  My personal opinion - the governor isn't want to create any obstacles to letting ALL tourists come in...covid infected or not 😞  Also, he's Trump's boy - and would never support a state mask mandate (I'm happy my county has one).  I agree with some of what he's done (keeping the state open, kids in school, etc) but don't agree with this executive order at all.

 

However, we're up to 30% of Americans vaccinated.  Once we get to a high enough level, then in my opinion all the restrictions should end.  I don't want to be wearing a mask in public buildings because some yahoo thinks the vaccine will leave a tracking device in his body or some such nonsense 😉 

 

Sue/WDW1972

[kazu]

30 minutes ago, wdw1972 said:

As a FL resident I don't agree with the governor's anti-vaccine passport view.  Perhaps to get around it, cruise lines can do a useless questionnaire at embarkation - asking passengers if they've been fully vaccinated, and then once in waters outside of the jurisdiction of FL require proof.  Those who don't have it can be hoisted off the ship - to a waiting boat if the cruise line wants to spend the money, or left to swim back if they don't 😉  

 

Sue/WDW1972

 

I seriously doubt that the cruise lines that require vaccination proof will nr satisfied  with a questionnaire. This isn’t Noro and they are not wanting to be caught in a Diamond Princess scenario.   That hasn’t been the way it has worked with other required vaccines nor visas.

 

I think your governor has made a mistake as if people can’t get proof of vaccine that meets standards, they won’t be getting on ships.

 

However, I’ve been wrong before so we will see what time tells 😉 

 

[AncientWanderer]

20 minutes ago, wdw1972 said:

I'm a state employee, so I get the press releases.  My personal opinion - the governor isn't want to create any obstacles to letting ALL tourists come in...covid infected or not 😞  Also, he's Trump's boy - and would never support a state mask mandate (I'm happy my county has one).  I agree with some of what he's done (keeping the state open, kids in school, etc) but don't agree with this executive order at all.

 

However, we're up to 30% of Americans vaccinated.  Once we get to a high enough level, then in my opinion all the restrictions should end.  I don't want to be wearing a mask in public buildings because some yahoo thinks the vaccine will leave a tracking device in his body or some such nonsense 😉 

 

Sue/WDW1972

 

Thank you for your response, and the local nuance it brings with it.   And sounds very plausible, from what I've heard and read.

 

It'll be interesting to watch how things unfold.  My DH keeps talking about cruising to Hawaii from Southern California.  Which could probably be done safely.  What happens in Florida will impact other places, too.  I hope everybody handles things responsibly.

 

 

[nocl]

2 hours ago, AncientWanderer said:

 

What level are we now here in U.S.?

I'm not being facetious.  I really don't know.  I was surprised, when I looked at CDC website,  to see how crummy my own county is doing.  Is my risk increased by going to some of these places?   (Other than, of course, not having my home healthcare available.)  I actually thought Israel was doing better than us.  A lot of countries won't allow people from the U.S.

I guess your post implies that these places are scary.  But we're scary, too.

The problem with travel is this:

 

When you are in your home area.  You go through your routine you basically go to the same places, meeting the same people or at least people that also visit the same places.  A lot of your contacts are repeats.  Any Covid strain you encounter are those already circulating in that same area.

 

When you travel every contact is a new one, not the ones that repeat week to week. By its very natures the more people you are in contact with the higher the odds to run into an infected individual. Not even counting the more crowded conditions you might run into while getting to your destination.

Also the areas in which you are travel may have different strains than you do in your home area.  By traveling you might be taking a strain into an area where it is not present, or for that matter taking a different home to your home area.

[HappyInVan]

EU vax document...

 

“The head of the European Commission vaccines task force, Thierry Breton, unveiled the first European "health passport" on Sunday, claiming he hopes Europe will have a summer season "comparable to last year".

 

The new health certificate should be available “within two to three months” in both digital and paper formats, Breton told RTL radio and TV channel LCI.”

 

https://www.thelocal.no/20210328/eu-vaccine-chief-hopes-for-tourism-boost-as-he-unveils-covid-19-passport/

 

“The EU proposed a vaccine passport for its 27 nations. The idea is gathering pace around the world.”

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/eu-proposes-vaccination-passport-coronavirus-2021-3

 

[AncientWanderer]

34 minutes ago, nocl said:

The problem with travel is this:

 

When you are in your home area.  You go through your routine you basically go to the same places, meeting the same people or at least people that also visit the same places.  A lot of your contacts are repeats.  Any Covid strain you encounter are those already circulating in that same area.

 

When you travel every contact is a new one, not the ones that repeat week to week. By its very natures the more people you are in contact with the higher the odds to run into an infected individual. Not even counting the more crowded conditions you might run into while getting to your destination.

Also the areas in which you are travel may have different strains than you do in your home area.  By traveling you might be taking a strain into an area where it is not present, or for that matter taking a different home to your home area.

 

Yes...travel is fraught with perils during a pandemic.  And we certainly may not be there yet where leisure travel is appropriate.  

The difficulty is that this particular "condition" is embedded worldwide and there will always be clusters breaking out -- and potential for new strains to emerge.  I don't see it being completely crushed.  As with tuberculosis, with its constant threat of antibiotic resistance, we're going to have to monitor this forever.  So seems like we better start looking hard at ways to mitigate risk and still get on with things.  I mean, business travel can't be prohibited forever; and obviously we are having cross-border international engagement and all manner of other public gatherings, so ships setting sail, with strict health and safety guidelines, just seem like the least of our worries.  

 

As with most things, moderation and a middle path is probably the best.  Something between all or nothing.

 

[nocl]

17 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

 

Yes...travel is fraught with perils during a pandemic.  And we certainly may not be there yet where leisure travel is appropriate.  

The difficulty is that this particular "condition" is embedded worldwide and there will always be clusters breaking out -- and potential for new strains to emerge.  I don't see it being completely crushed.  As with tuberculosis, with its constant threat of antibiotic resistance, we're going to have to monitor this forever.  So seems like we better start looking hard at ways to mitigate risk and still get on with things.  I mean, business travel can't be prohibited forever; and obviously we are having cross-border international engagement and all manner of other public gatherings, so ships setting sail, with strict health and safety guidelines, just seem like the least of our worries.  

 

As with most things, moderation and a middle path is probably the best.  Something between all or nothing.

 

Yes and no.  As of this time the Pfizer vaccine shows that it works against the worst of the variants identified yet to date  B.1.351.  If it works against that one than it should work against the others with similar mutations.  So at this time it is more a matter of getting enough people vaccinated, get the case counts down low enough, that the number of mutations similarly is reduced.  So far this appears to be something that we can get ahead of.  Plus we now know that we can crank out a designer vaccine with the new technology very quickly it we need to.

 

We do have ways to mitigate.  Mask, social distancing, reduce non-essential travel.  Exactly what we can drop and how soon depends pretty much upon one thing case counts.  Get it down and all things are possible.  Have people acting dumb and not taking precautions while the counts are high then it will take longer and there will be a higher probability of a less desirable outcome.  

 

 

[AncientWanderer]

Well said, @nocl

[nocl]

Just now, AncientWanderer said:

Well said, @nocl

Thank you

 

I am personally planning 3 trips this year.  All in the US.  The first is a long road trip visiting several national parks and scenic areas. Then one to Alaska and one two Hawaii.  In all three cases we will be following recommendations to avoid Covid even though we will both be fully vaccinated.  The two trips with flights are being done to minimize crowds as much as possible. Same with aircraft seating.  Spending the extra or using miles to get two across seating in first class, instead of being in coach with three across seating. Using a rental car and hotel stays. Will avoid indoor dining. etc.

 

 

[idiebabe]

Here is the Executive Order by DeSantis on Vaccine Passports.  Yes, he is not Mandating Floridians to get the Vaccine.  Are there States that are!  Mine isn’t and I’m not aware of any other States.  Correct me if I’m wrong.  
 

Regarding the ban on a Vaccination Passport the ban is for normal Social Activities where Restaurants, Movie Theaters, Theme Parks, etc. are not Required and cannot ask Customers proof of Vaccination.   NY is looking at doing this (maybe did it already) where someone would not be allowed in a Restaurant if they are not Vaccinated.  This is what DeSantis opposes.

 

Everyone I know who has received the Vaccine has received a CDC Vaccination Card.  This is the proof of being Vaccinated and should be accepted by the Cruise Lines.  It is not advisable to laminate because of any future Boosters.  There is talk of a Travel Vaccine Passport for Air Travel but unless I missed something DeSantis is opposed for a Vaccine Passport for Social Activities such as Dining out, etc.

 

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf

[AncientWanderer]

1 hour ago, idiebabe said:

Here is the Executive Order by DeSantis on Vaccine Passports.  Yes, he is not Mandating Floridians to get the Vaccine.  Are there States that are!  Mine isn’t and I’m not aware of any other States.  Correct me if I’m wrong.  
 

Regarding the ban on a Vaccination Passport the ban is for normal Social Activities where Restaurants, Movie Theaters, Theme Parks, etc. are not Required and cannot ask Customers proof of Vaccination.   NY is looking at doing this (maybe did it already) where someone would not be allowed in a Restaurant if they are not Vaccinated.  This is what DeSantis opposes.

 

Everyone I know who has received the Vaccine has received a CDC Vaccination Card.  This is the proof of being Vaccinated and should be accepted by the Cruise Lines.  It is not advisable to laminate because of any future Boosters.  There is talk of a Travel Vaccine Passport for Air Travel but unless I missed something DeSantis is opposed for a Vaccine Passport for Social Activities such as Dining out, etc.

 

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf

 

This is interesting, because it kind of flies in the face of DeSantis's expressed opinions regarding personal choice and that kind of thing.  It seems like to be in keeping with that philosophy, he'd have to allow business owners to decide for themselves if they want to require vaccinated customers.

It's all so confusing.  Seems like everybody has just been making it up as they go along.  But I guess we've never been in this situation before, so we're all learning together.