Florida Looking to Push Back Against CDC

[CruiserBruce]

2 hours ago, idiebabe said:

Here is the Executive Order by DeSantis on Vaccine Passports.  Yes, he is not Mandating Floridians to get the Vaccine.  Are there States that are!  Mine isn’t and I’m not aware of any other States.  Correct me if I’m wrong.  
 

Regarding the ban on a Vaccination Passport the ban is for normal Social Activities where Restaurants, Movie Theaters, Theme Parks, etc. are not Required and cannot ask Customers proof of Vaccination.   NY is looking at doing this (maybe did it already) where someone would not be allowed in a Restaurant if they are not Vaccinated.  This is what DeSantis opposes.

 

Everyone I know who has received the Vaccine has received a CDC Vaccination Card.  This is the proof of being Vaccinated and should be accepted by the Cruise Lines.  It is not advisable to laminate because of any future Boosters.  There is talk of a Travel Vaccine Passport for Air Travel but unless I missed something DeSantis is opposed for a Vaccine Passport for Social Activities such as Dining out, etc.

 

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf

Have not heard of any state, or country,  for that matter,  who is MANDATING the vaccine. The Florida  Governor is making a dumb political statement. Nothing more, nothing less.

[wdw1972]

10 hours ago, kazu said:

 

I seriously doubt that the cruise lines that require vaccination proof will nr satisfied  with a questionnaire. This isn’t Noro and they are not wanting to be caught in a Diamond Princess scenario.   That hasn’t been the way it has worked with other required vaccines nor visas.

 

I think your governor has made a mistake as if people can’t get proof of vaccine that meets standards, they won’t be getting on ships.

 

However, I’ve been wrong before so we will see what time tells 😉 

 

Yes, my suggestion of the questionnaire was definitely tongue in cheek, and sarcasm vs being serious 😉  I'm very disappointed in the governor's decision.  

 

Sue/WDW1972

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, nocl said:

Yes and no.  As of this time the Pfizer vaccine shows that it works against the worst of the variants identified yet to date  B.1.351.  If it works against that one than it should work against the others with similar mutations.  So at this time it is more a matter of getting enough people vaccinated, get the case counts down low enough, that the number of mutations similarly is reduced.  So far this appears to be something that we can get ahead of.  Plus we now know that we can crank out a designer vaccine with the new technology very quickly it we need to.

 

We do have ways to mitigate.  Mask, social distancing, reduce non-essential travel.  Exactly what we can drop and how soon depends pretty much upon one thing case counts.  Get it down and all things are possible.  Have people acting dumb and not taking precautions while the counts are high then it will take longer and there will be a higher probability of a less desirable outcome.  

 

 

Is there any data that shows if the Moderna vaccine shows similar results against the variants that Pfizer does? Since we had the Moderna, this naturally is of interest to us.

[T8NCruise]

13 hours ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

I live in British Columbia, and as of today the current vaccine eligibility age is 72+. There are some pharmacies in the Lower Mainland only that have a limited supply of Astra Zeneca that is about to expire that is being given to 55 - 65 yr olds ASAP. Most people 65 - 72 are not eligible yet. I’m guessing your BC is short for something else?

Check again.  Fraser Health has been allocating Astra Zeneca to drugstores, and my 55 yr old SIL got his yesterday.  My 70 yr old friend also got hers yesterday at the local FH vaccination clinic.  Possibly vaccine that is about to expire, but whatever the reason, younger people are getting it.  There does seem to be a forgotten age group from 65+ at present but it will work out in the next week.  You have to be proactive and check around.  Also get online to the booking site late at night.

[Horizon chaser 1957]

1 hour ago, T8NCruise said:

Check again.  Fraser Health has been allocating Astra Zeneca to drugstores, and my 55 yr old SIL got his yesterday.  My 70 yr old friend also got hers yesterday at the local FH vaccination clinic.  Possibly vaccine that is about to expire, but whatever the reason, younger people are getting it.  There does seem to be a forgotten age group from 65+ at present but it will work out in the next week.  You have to be proactive and check around.  Also get online to the booking site late at night.

Yes,  I said that. Expiring AstraZeneca doses are being distributed to 103 listed specific pharmacies in Vancouver Health and Fraser Health regions only for ages 55 - 65 only. It is a far smarter idea than letting vaccines get thrown out.
Otherwise, the province is working down the age categories year by year. DH is now two years away, so we are checking the website daily. There are a number of clinics that will allow a spouse to be vaccinated at the same time, even if they’re younger. Those with certain flagged medical conditions can also get vaccinated, with a specific Health Ministry letter that was sent to them.
The implication that everyone in BC who is 65+ can get vaccinated is simply not true at this time.

[nocl]

5 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Is there any data that shows if the Moderna vaccine shows similar results against the variants that Pfizer does? Since we had the Moderna, this naturally is of interest to us.

I have not seen any similar data on moderna.

[idiebabe]

11 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Have not heard of any state, or country,  for that matter,  who is MANDATING the vaccine. The Florida  Governor is making a dumb political statement. Nothing more, nothing less.

That is correct that there is no State or Country that is Mandating the Vaccine.  However, NY is coming out with a Vaccine Passport for normal Social Activities to be shown at Sporting Venues, Restaurants, Weddings, etc.  The current Administration has made comments about the same and and the Florida responded.  If you feel that someone who doesn't want to get the Vaccine should be excluded from these normal Social activities, then you will be in support of this Vaccine Passport and be against the Governor's EO.  It's that simple!

 

 

[Cruise NH]

6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Is there any data that shows if the Moderna vaccine shows similar results against the variants that Pfizer does? Since we had the Moderna, this naturally is of interest to us.

 

Pfizer came out first so most of the data is about them, especially from Israel.  Israel has been a fountain of Pfizer real use information.  I'm sure Moderna will follow (we had Moderna too).

[OmarOak]

If DeSantis is trying to prohibit businesses requiring proof of vaccination, he is interfering in the rights of businesses and their owners. My restaurants are reopening to the public in May. By then all of our team will be fully vaccinated. We are going to require proof of vaccination for guests. If someone decides to go elsewhere, so be it.

 

[Hlitner]

17 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Have not heard of any state, or country,  for that matter,  who is MANDATING the vaccine. The Florida  Governor is making a dumb political statement. Nothing more, nothing less.

While I do not disagree with your comment about the Governor, there are moves afoot to mandate vaccinations for entry into countries.  When NZ eventually reopens you can be sure they will require proof of vaccination as will Australia.  The Minister of Tourism of Greece wants to reopen Greece (as early as next month) to North Americans who have been vaccinated.  Some other countries, such as Iceland, have already opened to those who are vaccinated.  Those not vaccinated will need to be tested at entry, quarantined (at their own expense for 5 days) and then tested again (with both tests being negative and paid for by the traveler). 

 

You can also take it to the bank that when Japan reopens they will require proof of vaccination as will many other countries in Asia.  I suspect that some will allow non-vaccinated entry but that will be similar to Iceland where they will need to pay for multiple tests with an expensive (self-paid) quarantine between the tests.

 

I do not want to get into the political debate on mandatory vaccinations.  The facts are pretty clear that vaccines work and significantly reduce the COVID risk to both the vaccinated and everyone they contact.  Is it a perfect solution?  No!  But the risks associated with fully vaccinated folks are substantially less then those not vaccinated (unless they have natural immunity).  

 

I admire Governor Desantis and understand his concern, but think he might have this wrong.  The more traditional Republican/Libertarian approach would be to let businesses call their own shots as far as vaccines.  If a pub does not want to allow unvaccinated then those folks can simply go to another pub that welcomes unvaccinated.  I am somewhat puzzled as to why the Governor or even the government would want to get into the middle of this issue.  But I will tell you that as a vaccinated senior I would gravitate towards the restaurants/bars that only allowed the vaccinated.  In my little mind that simply lowers my personal risk.

 

Hank

 

 

 

[CruiserBruce]

@Hlitner, there could easily be some confusion here. Talking about requirements  to visit another state, or country, or a state or country requiring it's citizens to be vaccinated. 

[Hlitner]

20 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

@Hlitner, there could easily be some confusion here. Talking about requirements  to visit another state, or country, or a state or country requiring it's citizens to be vaccinated. 

Color me confused.  But why should I (or any traveler) care if a country has requirements for their own citizens.  That is between their citizens and their own government.  My concern would be meeting the requirements necessary for international travel.   Personally I am enough of a libertarian that I do not support our government mandating vaccinations (I do not think that can be done under our current laws and constitution).  On the other hand, I have no problem with a private business banning entry to folks that are not vaccinated if that is the decision of the business.  If all the airlines want to ban passengers who are not vaccinated that is also fine with me.  We all make our choices but choices do often come with consequences.   There are plenty of restaurants that have a policy similar to "no shoes, no shirt, no service."  I have the right to walk around without shoes, but a restaurant also has the right to refuse me entry for not wearing shoes.  They also should have the right to refuse me entry for not being vaccinated.   

 

As to cruise lines I support the idea of mandatory vaccinations on cruises.  The ships are private businesses and they would simply be taking a step to protect the thousands of passengers/crew on that vessel.  If a person does not want to get vaccinated then they will just have to deal with the consequences of their decision (in this case...no cruise).  And it is the same with airlines.  Several international airlines have been talking about a vaccine mandate for anyone who wants to fly on their aircraft (Qantas was the first).  Folks who have decided not to get vaccinated can book seats on "COVID Airlines.

 

Hank

 

 

[DaveOKC]

14 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

As to cruise lines I support the idea of mandatory vaccinations on cruises.  The ships are private businesses and they would simply be taking a step to protect the thousands of passengers/crew on that vessel.  If a person does not want to get vaccinated then they will just have to deal with the consequences of their decision (in this case...no cruise).  And it is the same with airlines.  Several international airlines have been talking about a vaccine mandate for anyone who wants to fly on their aircraft (Qantas was the first).  Folks who have decided not to get vaccinated can book seats on "COVID Airlines.

Hank

 

I also support the mandatory vaccination for cruising.  It only makes good health and business sense.

 

What I do not understand is how some people I know do not want to get vaccinated, due to fear of reaction or even death from the shots (crazy I know).  Yet, these same people have flown on airlines multiple times over the past 3-4 months, even before the shots were rolled out, thus exposing themselves to an even great risk. 

[wdw1972]

3 minutes ago, DaveOKC said:

I also support the mandatory vaccination for cruising.  It only makes good health and business sense.

 

What I do not understand is how some people I know do not want to get vaccinated, due to fear of reaction or even death from the shots (crazy I know).  Yet, these same people have flown on airlines multiple times over the past 3-4 months, even before the shots were rolled out, thus exposing themselves to an even great risk. 

Dave in simple terms - you can't fix stupid.  That describes the people you refer to to a T.  There are man myths out there about the vaccines, but a reasonably intelligent (non-stupid) person can easily see through all that.

 

Hello to you & Geri!

 

Sue/WDW1972

[ArizonatoFlorida]

On 4/3/2021 at 1:33 AM, CruiserBruce said:

Have not heard of any state, or country,  for that matter,  who is MANDATING the vaccine. The Florida  Governor is making a dumb political statement. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, Hlitner said:

While I do not disagree with your comment about the Governor, there are moves afoot to mandate vaccinations for entry into countries.  When NZ eventually reopens you can be sure they will require proof of vaccination as will Australia.  The Minister of Tourism of Greece wants to reopen Greece (as early as next month) to North Americans who have been vaccinated.  Some other countries, such as Iceland, have already opened to those who are vaccinated.  Those not vaccinated will need to be tested at entry, quarantined (at their own expense for 5 days) and then tested again (with both tests being negative and paid for by the traveler). 

 

You can also take it to the bank that when Japan reopens they will require proof of vaccination as will many other countries in Asia.  I suspect that some will allow non-vaccinated entry but that will be similar to Iceland where they will need to pay for multiple tests with an expensive (self-paid) quarantine between the tests.

 

I do not want to get into the political debate on mandatory vaccinations.  The facts are pretty clear that vaccines work and significantly reduce the COVID risk to both the vaccinated and everyone they contact.  Is it a perfect solution?  No!  But the risks associated with fully vaccinated folks are substantially less then those not vaccinated (unless they have natural immunity).  

 

I admire Governor Desantis and understand his concern, but think he might have this wrong.  The more traditional Republican/Libertarian approach would be to let businesses call their own shots as far as vaccines.  If a pub does not want to allow unvaccinated then those folks can simply go to another pub that welcomes unvaccinated.  I am somewhat puzzled as to why the Governor or even the government would want to get into the middle of this issue.  But I will tell you that as a vaccinated senior I would gravitate towards the restaurants/bars that only allowed the vaccinated.  In my little mind that simply lowers my personal risk.

 

Hank

 

 

 

Just to add one point to all you have said, a business owner may very well also want to protect his or her employees who have to deal with the public. He or she may see requiring patrons to be vaccinated as helping to accomplish that goal. That should not be thwarted by a governor's mandate.

[ArizonatoFlorida]

One cruise. line stopping in Iceland shows Iceland requires this.

 

https://www.euronews.com/travel/2021/03/18/vaccine-passports-iceland-allows-in-all-travellers-with-jab-certificates

 

Some countries have a 2 week quarantine without some proof of being vaccinated.

[kazu]

11 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Just to add one point to all you have said, a business owner may very well also want to protect his or her employees who have to deal with the public. He or she may see requiring patrons to be vaccinated as helping to accomplish that goal. That should not be thwarted by a governor's mandate.

 

Very good point and so true.  

Little story - before masks were required - when our little market/specialty grocery store could re-open, the owner announced masks would be required to shop in his store.  He said he was going to do his utmost to protect his employees and customers.   At the time, masks were not yet a provincial requirement, just recommended.

 

This is a very small business so his safety protocols of cleaning, plexiglass , etc were no small undertaking for him.  

 

It’s his store - he has the right to add masks to the “no shoes, no shirt, no entry”. 😉 

 

He was way ahead of his time 😉. Within a few weeks masks were required.  I can honestly say I have been spending a lot more money in his store as I feel relatively safe with his protocols, precautions and the very limited number of people inside.  And, I am not alone.  His business is booming from what I can see.

 

 

[ontheweb]

2 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Very good point and so true.  

Little story - before masks were required - when our little market/specialty grocery store could re-open, the owner announced masks would be required to shop in his store.  He said he was going to do his utmost to protect his employees and customers.   At the time, masks were not yet a provincial requirement, just recommended.

 

This is a very small business so his safety protocols of cleaning, plexiglass , etc were no small undertaking for him.  

 

It’s his store - he has the right to add masks to the “no shoes, no shirt, no entry”. 😉 

 

He was way ahead of his time 😉. Within a few weeks masks were required.  I can honestly say I have been spending a lot more money in his store as I feel relatively safe with his protocols, precautions and the very limited number of people inside.  And, I am not alone.  His business is booming from what I can see.

 

 

One could see the same type of logic about cruise ships. The lines that want to protect their customers and their employees could once there is a restart be the ones who see their business boom.

[fatcat04]

After reading through ALL the information that came with my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine, I noted the passages this article references and looked into this further. This is what I found in a few places. And obviously this has zero to do with what any other nations decides to require for entry. 

 

Federal law prohibits employers and others from requiring vaccination with a Covid-19 vaccine distributed under an EUA

 

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/23/federal-law-prohibits-employers-and-others-from-requiring-vaccination-with-a-covid-19-vaccine-distributed-under-an-eua/

 

fta: "In the same vein, when Dr. Amanda Cohn, the executive secretary of the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, was asked if Covid-19 vaccination can be required, she responded that under an EUA, “vaccines are not allowed to be mandatory. So, early in this vaccination phase, individuals will have to be consented and they won’t be able to be mandatory.” Cohn later affirmed that this prohibition on requiring the vaccines applies to organizations, including hospitals."

---------

"This means that an organization will likely be at odds with federal law if it requires its employees, students or other members to get a Covid-19 vaccine that is being distributed under emergency use authorization."

-------

"Even though the FDA granted emergency use authorizations for the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines in December 2020, the clinical trials the FDA will rely upon to ultimately decide whether to license these vaccines are still underway and are designed to last for approximately two years to collect adequate data to establish if these vaccines are safe and effective enough for the FDA to license."

 

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

One could see the same type of logic about cruise ships. The lines that want to protect their customers and their employees could once there is a restart be the ones who see their business boom.

I agree with you Look at Costco they were one of the first to require a mask to enter .

Edited April 4, 2021 by Gail & Marty sailing away

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, kazu said:

 

Very good point and so true.  

Little story - before masks were required - when our little market/specialty grocery store could re-open, the owner announced masks would be required to shop in his store.  He said he was going to do his utmost to protect his employees and customers.   At the time, masks were not yet a provincial requirement, just recommended.

 

This is a very small business so his safety protocols of cleaning, plexiglass , etc were no small undertaking for him.  

 

It’s his store - he has the right to add masks to the “no shoes, no shirt, no entry”. 😉 

 

He was way ahead of his time 😉. Within a few weeks masks were required.  I can honestly say I have been spending a lot more money in his store as I feel relatively safe with his protocols, precautions and the very limited number of people inside.  And, I am not alone.  His business is booming from what I can see.

 

 

Terrific story.  This "mask thing" really has me puzzled about my fellow man (guess I must now say person).  I have my own doubts about the value of masking in most places, especially with masks that do not meet strict guidelines (i.e. N95, KN95, etc).  But, both DW and I followed the standard recommendations except in situations where the recommendations made absolutely no sense (such as when exercising out in the wide open spaces).   We came to our own conclusion that masks, especially good masks, can be quite helpful when in crowded situations such as on a plane, moving through a crowded airport, etc.  So, even when all this COVID mess is behind us we will likely wear good masks (we have N95s) when in "travel mode" in crowded situations.   Prior to COVID both DW and I would routinely get colds a fair percentage of the time after we have flown (we do a lot of travel) or on a cruise.  Since COVID, when we started reasonable mask wearing and social distancing neither one of us has even had a sniffle in over a year.  Hard to knock success.  I always knew that masks (good masks) are somewhat effective (I have worked in the healthcare world where masking was routine) but never thought about wearing a mask during normal day to day stuff.  So COVID has changed our behavior...probably forever.

 

Hank

[KirkNC]

2 hours ago, fatcat04 said:

After reading through ALL the information that came with my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine, I noted the passages this article references and looked into this further. This is what I found in a few places. And obviously this has zero to do with what any other nations decides to require for entry. 

 

Federal law prohibits employers and others from requiring vaccination with a Covid-19 vaccine distributed under an EUA

 

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/23/federal-law-prohibits-employers-and-others-from-requiring-vaccination-with-a-covid-19-vaccine-distributed-under-an-eua/

 

fta: "In the same vein, when Dr. Amanda Cohn, the executive secretary of the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, was asked if Covid-19 vaccination can be required, she responded that under an EUA, “vaccines are not allowed to be mandatory. So, early in this vaccination phase, individuals will have to be consented and they won’t be able to be mandatory.” Cohn later affirmed that this prohibition on requiring the vaccines applies to organizations, including hospitals."

---------

"This means that an organization will likely be at odds with federal law if it requires its employees, students or other members to get a Covid-19 vaccine that is being distributed under emergency use authorization."

-------

"Even though the FDA granted emergency use authorizations for the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines in December 2020, the clinical trials the FDA will rely upon to ultimately decide whether to license these vaccines are still underway and are designed to last for approximately two years to collect adequate data to establish if these vaccines are safe and effective enough for the FDA to license."

 

EEOC has a different take.  In summary, a employer can require vaccinations in most circumstances.

 

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/eeoc-says-employers-may-mandate-covid-19-vaccinations-subject-to-limitations

 

 

[fatcat04]

3 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

EEOC has a different take.  In summary, a employer can require vaccinations in most circumstances.

 

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/eeoc-says-employers-may-mandate-covid-19-vaccinations-subject-to-limitations

 

 

The lawyers and judges will probably have to hash this out unless Congress and the FDA/CDC act. I can see this kind of stuff being a legal mine field that litigation shy corps won't want to step into until the vaccines get officially authorized. 

[KroozNut]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Terrific story.  This "mask thing" really has me puzzled about my fellow man (guess I must now say person).  I have my own doubts about the value of masking in most places, especially with masks that do not meet strict guidelines (i.e. N95, KN95, etc).  But, both DW and I followed the standard recommendations except in situations where the recommendations made absolutely no sense (such as when exercising out in the wide open spaces).   We came to our own conclusion that masks, especially good masks, can be quite helpful when in crowded situations such as on a plane, moving through a crowded airport, etc.  So, even when all this COVID mess is behind us we will likely wear good masks (we have N95s) when in "travel mode" in crowded situations.   Prior to COVID both DW and I would routinely get colds a fair percentage of the time after we have flown (we do a lot of travel) or on a cruise.  Since COVID, when we started reasonable mask wearing and social distancing neither one of us has even had a sniffle in over a year.  Hard to knock success.  I always knew that masks (good masks) are somewhat effective (I have worked in the healthcare world where masking was routine) but never thought about wearing a mask during normal day to day stuff.  So COVID has changed our behavior...probably forever.

 

Hank

 

It is disappointing to read this, but I do understand that others (not us) agree with this perspective for the future. For us, the masks will come off, and stay off as soon as this mess is behind us, and it is determined by the experts to be safe to do so.