Face Masks and Cruising

[atgood]

15 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

You say you do not believe in "mask shaming" and if one wears one it's ok with you, but then you claim everyone doing so is participating in cosmetic theater.  Got it. Yes, you're very supportive.  Lol.

 

Science is science and it has to be supported by data and facts.  Science is not whatever we feel like it is.  Before posting nonsense people need to do some research.  Misinformation can be dangerous to another's health.  

You just see what you want and then twist what isn’t there to suit yourself.  
 

First.  Me relating several direct observations that a lot of people improperly wear their mask is not mask shaming.  It’s me telling of my experience while out in public.  Also, me putting out a link to an article is hardly mask shaming either.  An example of mask shaming would be telling someone that is properly wearing a mask their mask isn’t doing them any good and/or that they’re silly for wearing one.  I didn’t and don’t do either.  
 

Second.  I didn’t say everyone wearing a mask is participating in cosmetic theater. Re-read what I typed.  I said, probably over 50% was my unofficial guess.  I’d bet it’s even higher though with mask re-use , gaps, improper touching, etc. 

[harkinmr]

2 minutes ago, atgood said:

You just see what you want and then twist what isn’t there to suit yourself.  
 

First.  Me relating several direct observations that a lot of people improperly wear their mask is not mask shaming.  It’s me telling of my experience while out in public.  Also, me putting out a link to an article is hardly mask shaming either.  An example of mask shaming would be telling someone that is properly wearing a mask their mask isn’t doing them any good and/or that they’re silly for wearing one.  I didn’t and don’t do either.  
 

Second.  I didn’t say everyone wearing a mask is participating in cosmetic theater. Re-read what I typed.  I said, probably over 50% was my unofficial guess.  I’d bet it’s even higher though with mask re-use , gaps, improper touching, etc. 

I'll agree with your second point.  But I believe that those people, the ones' with their mask under their nose or under their chin, are just snubbing their noses at the mask requirements more than demonstrating improper usage.  Now that's theatre for sure.  In fact, it's actually more offensive to me  than someone who doesn't wear one at all.  But the "theater" trope can't be put on those who are doing what they can to comply with the guidance.

 

Putting a link in a thread is fine, except when it's blatant misinformation and has been called out as such.  Posters like me have a right to point it out.   I can't help if you don't appreciate it.

[atgood]

IMO we’re not getting out of CV19 through mask wearing by the general public.  I’m not replying back either even if you post 1000 articles that say why masks work.  Again, just my opinion. 
 

In reality, I think the whole mask wearing is used more as a gauge for the big G’s to feel out the compliance of their citizens in how much of their freedom they’re willing to give up for supposed security.  

[atgood]

14 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Putting a link in a thread is fine, except when it's blatant misinformation and has been called out as such.  Posters like me have a right to point it out.   I can't help if you don't appreciate it.

Definitely, post all you want.  Everyone here ultimately will decide for themselves, but not everyone will post their thoughts on the topic.  It’s not that I “don’t appreciate it” either.   Information exchange is a good thing.  I’m a trust, but verify person.  
 

I realize Gov gets things wrong at times.  I wouldn’t think something that is so “blatantly” wrong would be published on a gov’t agency website though.  Different conclusion, based on a different background perhaps. 

[Xkontour98]

3 hours ago, atgood said:

...

People are forgetting our bodies have something called an immune system.  Rather than getting caught up in mask shaming, we should be taking steps to increase our immune response. 

 

Good point, and getting vaccinated is by far the most effective way to train our bodies to increase our immune response when presented with the virus. 

[Xkontour98]

1 hour ago, atgood said:

IMO we’re not getting out of CV19 through mask wearing by the general public.  I’m not replying back either even if you post 1000 articles that say why masks work.  Again, just my opinion. 
 

In reality, I think the whole mask wearing is used more as a gauge for the big G’s to feel out the compliance of their citizens in how much of their freedom they’re willing to give up for supposed security.  

 

Like giving up freedom of kissing your windshield through legally mandating the use of a seatbelt?

 

 

[Sky616]

11 minutes ago, Xkontour98 said:

 

Good point, and getting vaccinated is by far the most effective way to train our bodies to increase our immune response when presented with the virus. 

Not really

[atgood]

40 minutes ago, Xkontour98 said:

 

Good point, and getting vaccinated is by far the most effective way to train our bodies to increase our immune response when presented with the virus. 

Here’s the thing about the Pfizer vaccine (for example) that I didn’t realize until recently.  Not much has been said about the control group who received the placebo during the trial.  
 

We’ve all heard about how great the Pfizer vaccine works and how very few (8 out of 17,411,=0.04%), who received the vaccine during the trial, ending up getting CV19.  
 

Well guess what?  Very few in the placebo control group ended getting CV19 (162 out of 17,511 participants,=0.9%).  That’s less than 1%.  See pg 29 in the link if you want see it for yourself. 
 

https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download

 

It’s similar with other vaccines too.  

[Shorewalk Holmes]

5 hours ago, atgood said:

Give it a read and decide for yourself. 

 

4 hours ago, harkinmr said:

Pure and utter bunk. 

 

Calling this anti-mask article 'bunk' is perhaps too kind 🙂

 

Medical N95 and KN95 masks are tested and certified by the FDA for covid protection.  Their efficacy is not about thread counts.  It's about electrostatic filtration.

 

But the author initially seems to suggest that it's all about thread count, even for medical masks.  Then at the end of the paragraph, he seems to admit that there's electrostatic filtration, but complains that the filtration for N95's can fall to 58% when the mask isn't worn properly.

 

I'd take 58% protection over nothing.

 

Incidentally, it's amusing to me that a published article can't even get past the abstract without glaring typos:

 

"...providing prosper information for public health and decisions making."

 

Maybe that's more common when people rush an article out through open access.   The web site says that publishing through 'Open Access Gold' costs you $1850.

 

Although there are legitimate differences of opinion about this, I prefer the slower, more careful route in which the journal doesn't allow people to pay to get published.

 

 

 

[Shorewalk Holmes]

2 hours ago, atgood said:

I wouldn’t think something that is so “blatantly” wrong would be published on a gov’t agency website though. 

 

The government didn't publish this article. We just get access through the Library of Medicine. This doesn't imply government endorsement.   

[Xkontour98]

43 minutes ago, atgood said:

Here’s the thing about the Pfizer vaccine (for example) that I didn’t realize until recently.  Not much has been said about the control group who received the placebo during the trial.  
 

We’ve all heard about how great the Pfizer vaccine works and how very few (8 out of 17,411,=0.04%), who received the vaccine during the trial, ending up getting CV19.  
 

Well guess what?  Very few in the placebo control group ended getting CV19 (162 out of 17,511 participants,=0.9%).  That’s less than 1%.  See pg 29 in the link if you want see it for yourself. 
 

https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download

 

It’s similar with other vaccines too.  

Thank you for posting your reference. Though, I disagree with your conclusion, 8 vs. 162 is rather significant in a clinical trial. The vaccine is not only to help prevent the spread of covid, but also to lessen the severity of the virus which the study also shows its proven: The study found 10 severe covid-19 cases after the first dose, nine of which were in the placebo group. After the second dose it showed one case in the vaccine group and four in the placebo group.    Page11: https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577/suppl_file/nejmoa2034577_appendix.pdf The reduced likeliness of hospitalization is a huge win.

 

It was noted that the timeframe was 7 days after second dose was administered and per the CDC website a person is not considered fully vaccinated until 2 full weeks after receiving the second dose. I don't have time at the moment to search for supporting documentation, but it would seem reasonable to conclude that better efficacy would be shown with the additional week of vaccination coverage. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html

 

 

[d9704011]

1 hour ago, atgood said:

Here’s the thing about the Pfizer vaccine (for example) that I didn’t realize until recently.  Not much has been said about the control group who received the placebo during the trial.  
 

We’ve all heard about how great the Pfizer vaccine works and how very few (8 out of 17,411,=0.04%), who received the vaccine during the trial, ending up getting CV19.  
 

Well guess what?  Very few in the placebo control group ended getting CV19 (162 out of 17,511 participants,=0.9%).  That’s less than 1%.  See pg 29 in the link if you want see it for yourself. 
 

https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download

 

It’s similar with other vaccines too.  

I saw another poster manipulate these numbers a week or so ago.  Another way of looking at is that only 1/20th of the inoculated group contracted CV-19 as compared to the placebo group.

[Shorewalk Holmes]

3 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

if you try and shame me for not wearing a mask, there's gonna be trouble

 

A week ago Saturday, I was wearing a mask to pick up takeout from a restaurant. Crowded, indoors, no other masks in sight, including the employees.

 

While I'm waiting, a guy walks over from the bar and puts his (unmasked) face literally about four inches from mine and stares at me.  I think he was trying to see if I would move to maintain social distance. 

 

I didn't say a thing, just looked at him.  After awhile, he went back to his buddies at the bar.

 

I'm just curious -- what do you think I should have done?

[Kwaj girl]

9 minutes ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

 

A week ago Saturday, I was wearing a mask to pick up takeout from a restaurant. Crowded, indoors, no other masks in sight, including the employees.

 

While I'm waiting, a guy walks over from the bar and puts his (unmasked) face literally about four inches from mine and stares at me.  I think he was trying to see if I would move to maintain social distance. 

 

I didn't say a thing, just looked at him.  After awhile, he went back to his buddies at the bar.

 

I'm just curious -- what do you think I should have done?

 

Exactly what you did....say and do nothing.  He probably already had a few drinks under his belt so he was probably not dealing with a full deck at that point.

[DCGuy64]

7 minutes ago, Kwaj girl said:

 

Exactly what you did....say and do nothing.  He probably already had a few drinks under his belt so he was probably not dealing with a full deck at that point.

Agreed. Although, I might have been curious to strike up a conversation just to see if he was worth talking to. Or walked away. I'm not by nature confrontational, but I have my limits in terms of what I'll allow.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

24 minutes ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

 

A week ago Saturday, I was wearing a mask to pick up takeout from a restaurant. Crowded, indoors, no other masks in sight, including the employees.

 

While I'm waiting, a guy walks over from the bar and puts his (unmasked) face literally about four inches from mine and stares at me.  I think he was trying to see if I would move to maintain social distance. 

 

I didn't say a thing, just looked at him.  After awhile, he went back to his buddies at the bar.

 

I'm just curious -- what do you think I should have done?

 

Pulled your mask down and blown in his face. 

[Shorewalk Holmes]

4 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

Pulled your mask down and blown in his face. 

 

I forgot to mention that he was bigger than me 🙂

[DCGuy64]

1 minute ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

 

I forgot to mention that he was bigger than me 🙂

Ah, in that case, "what are you drinking, 'cuz I buying," LOL.

 

[Goodtime Cruizin]

3 minutes ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

 

I forgot to mention that he was bigger than me 🙂

 

I forgot to ask is you were vaxed. If so, I would have clearly done that. Either stand your ground or use grub hub.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

6 minutes ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

 

I forgot to mention that he was bigger than me 🙂

 

Also, for your reference,  if you're ever in a fight w/ a guy bigger than you, charge him, tackle him, get him on the ground. The ground is your equlaizer. Having said this, I hope you never get into a fight. 

[Shorewalk Holmes]

1 minute ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

I forgot to ask is you were vaxed. If so, I would have clearly done that. Either stand your ground or use grub hub.

 

I didn't move at all,  we just locked eyes. So I did stand my ground.  Being vaxxed helped for sure.

 

If I hadn't been vaxxed, I never would've been in there.

[Shorewalk Holmes]

2 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Also, for your reference,  if you're ever in a fight w/ a guy bigger than you, charge him, tackle him, get him on the ground. The ground is your equlaizer. Having said this, I hope you never get into a fight. 

 

Thanks for the tip!   I hope to restrict my fighting to other 70+ folks 🙂

[coffeebean]

13 hours ago, atgood said:

Give it a read and decide for yourself. 
 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

“Conclusion

The existing scientific evidences challenge the safety and efficacy of wearing facemask as preventive intervention for COVID-19. The data suggest that both medical and non-medical facemasks are ineffective to block human-to-human transmission of viral and infectious disease such SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19, supporting against the usage of facemasks. Wearing facemasks has been demonstrated to have substantial adverse physiological and psychological effects. These include hypoxia, hypercapnia, shortness of breath, increased acidity and toxicity, activation of fear and stress response, rise in stress hormones, immunosuppression, fatigue, headaches, decline in cognitive performance, predisposition for viral and infectious illnesses, chronic stress, anxiety and depression. Long-term consequences of wearing facemask can cause health deterioration, developing and progression of chronic diseases and premature death. Governments, policy makers and health organizations should utilize prosper and scientific evidence-based approach with respect to wearing facemasks, when the latter is considered as preventive intervention for public health.“

 

 

Well, let me just say this. It depends on the source where you get your information. This is truly BS. These theories have been debunked by reputable sources, including the scientific community. Believe what you like. I will stick with reliable sources for my information.

 

Masks have been used for more years than I have been alive (that a LOT of years)  in the medical field as source control. Why, now would they become ineffective and cause psychological and physical problems among our population. Why???? because what you have posted is BS. That's why.

[coffeebean]

13 hours ago, crewsweeper said:

Lots of "coulds" and "modeling" in those. But basically saying "Get Vaccinated" and things will improve.

Since every adult can now get a vaccine and there are plenty unused vaccines around, what officials are seeing is that many young people are skeptical and anti-vaxxers are edging them on via social media.  Yet Under-30s are the largest cohort testing positive for COVID.

 

I'm not anti-mask in certain situations, and if a business or workplace asks me to wear a mask on entering I do.  The idea of wearing a mask outdoors, or while you are eating/drinking or even while driving your own car with no one else around, is overkill.  I've been vaccinated-2 shots and if booster is required will get that too. 

 

But all these NIH and CDC regulations are being pushed out without proper review and follow-up.  We have, in effect in the country, the greatest study group of all.  With every state and even various locales within the states pushing different means of dealing with COVID, we can and should see which works which doesn't.  Thus far, masks/no masks are a draw.  No real overall difference in prevention.  Vaccines, on the other hand, do appear to be working, but it could (there's that hedge word ,again) be too early to really tell.  

The failure of masking, IMHO, is that so many people do not wear their masks properly. Keeping the nose exposed is just like not wearing a mask at all. Why bother if you are still going to breath all over the place and not keep your aerosols contained?

[coffeebean]

13 hours ago, TheMastodon said:

 

Masks in a restaurant is cosmetic theatre

Masking in a restaurant when you are moving around, such as entering, exiting or going to the restroom is not cosmetic theater. It's all about being stationary while sitting and for people to be able to maintain a proper distance. When moving about, distancing becomes more difficult or unsuspecting. It makes sense to me why masking in a restaurant when someone is on the move is necessary and safer to take off the mask when a person is stationary while sitting.