BSocial Posted May 6, 2021 #1 Share Posted May 6, 2021 (edited) https://www.cruisehive.com/texas-joins-florida-lawsuit-to-overrule-cdc-and-restart-cruises/50521 Link to full Texas filing https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/sites/default/files/images/admin/2021/Press/Motion to Intervene.pdf Edited May 6, 2021 by BSocial Added 2nd link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare livingonthebeach Posted May 10, 2021 #2 Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) Just read the CDC's memorandum in its defense -- not looking good for Florida, Alaska or Texas -- following is part of it: Case 8:21-cv-00839-SDM-AAS Document 31 Filed 05/05/21 Page 4 of 46 PageID 1563 "First, Plaintiff lacks standing to bring suit in the first place. The CSO regulates cruise lines, not states. And Plaintiff cannot save its claim to standing by asserting the alleged injuries of its residents as parens patriae, or by relying on indirect declines in general tax revenues. Second, Plaintiff sat on its supposed rights for well over a year while cruise ship operations were restricted. It cannot now establish that irreparable harm would be prevented by letting cruise ships resume operations slightly more quickly than CDC believes is necessary to protect the public’s health. Third, Plaintiff cannot establish a likelihood of success on the merits of their claims. To start, even if the State of Florida were within the zone of interests of the relevant statute—and it is not—the CDC has acted lawfully and reasonably in setting conditions on the operation of cruise ships, pursuant to clear authority to regulate vessels intending to operate in U.S. ports. The administrative record will show that the agency considered relevant factors, engaged in reasoned decision-making, and came to reasonable conclusions, especially given the extraordinary deference due to Defendants during the ongoing public health emergency. Moreover, in order to bring an “unreasonable delay” claim like the one here, Plaintiff must identify a specific, mandatory agency action that has been delayed; it cannot do so, and the CDC acted reasonably because, under current guidance, cruise ship operators may conduct simulated voyages and commence restricted passenger voyages by mid-summer. Next, Defendants are not required to conduct notice-and-comment rulemaking to condition a license or enter an order under existing regulations during the pendency of a global public health emergency; and Defendants in any event have demonstrated good cause because they did in fact solicit, receive and consider public comments. Finally, Plaintiff has failed to state a claim under the “nondelegation” doctrine because Congress has provided the CDC with manageable standards to apply. Finally, the balance of equities tips sharply in Defendants’ favor, as the threat of further COVID-19 outbreaks on board cruise lines decisively outweighs any economic injury to Plaintiff. For any or all of these reasons, the Court should deny the motion for a preliminary injunction." https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flmd.388773/gov.uscourts.flmd.388773.31.0.pdf Edited May 10, 2021 by livingonthebeach 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_G Posted May 10, 2021 #3 Share Posted May 10, 2021 That's just the CDC arguments. They may or may not be valid but what matters is what a judge determines. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefly333 Posted May 10, 2021 #4 Share Posted May 10, 2021 Could be something in nuisance value for the cdc to keep finding itself in court defending itself. Cant hurt imo. Keep biting the ankles of the cdc. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d9704011 Posted May 10, 2021 #5 Share Posted May 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, Big_G said: That's just the CDC arguments. They may or may not be valid but what matters is what a judge determines. Yes, the judge will eventually rule on the merits of each side’s claims. In the meanwhile, do you have an opinion? I think the CDC’s arguments are pretty strong. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d9704011 Posted May 10, 2021 #6 Share Posted May 10, 2021 Just now, firefly333 said: Could be something in nuisance value for the cdc to keep finding itself in court defending itself. Cant hurt imo. Keep biting the ankles of the cdc. They’ve got armies of lawyers with all kinds of time to argue this. The Public Health Emergency will be declared over and the CSO will be expired before any decision on this case is made. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingos Posted May 10, 2021 #7 Share Posted May 10, 2021 I want to cruise, but safely. I do not want my tax dollars spent by my governor on this frivolous lawsuit. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare livingonthebeach Posted May 10, 2021 #8 Share Posted May 10, 2021 The CDC mentions in the document (full text in link above) that test cruises and limited revenue cruises are slated for Mid July so my guess is those scheduled for the first two weeks are probably a no go. The judge will decide on the merits but I feel the CDC has some pretty strong arguments. As has been mentioned, by the time the decision is made it will be moot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefly333 Posted May 10, 2021 #9 Share Posted May 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, flamingos said: I want to cruise, but safely. I do not want my tax dollars spent by my governor on this frivolous lawsuit. And I dont want my tax dollars spent on the cdc stopping the cruise industry. Wish I could fire the whole lot of them. Tired of the power grab. Like either of us has any say in the matter. Doesnt matter what you and I want our tax dollars spent on. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare livingonthebeach Posted May 10, 2021 #10 Share Posted May 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, firefly333 said: And I dont want my tax dollars spent on the cdc stopping the cruise industry. Wish I could fire the whole lot of them. Tired of the power grab. Like either of us has any say in the matter. Doesnt matter what you and I want our tax dollars spent on. There's a lot of money being spent by 3 states and the federal government on something that could have been more easily and expeditiously worked out between the cruise lines and the CDC. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auntiemomo Posted May 10, 2021 #11 Share Posted May 10, 2021 If left up to the CDC, we'd never have had a vaccine this soon. You need someone to push them, but I wouldn't count on it being done under the current administration. The state Governors need to keep nipping at their heels. They want you to mask and double mask both indoors and outside well into 2023. I'm so done with Fauci and Co. They are just making it up as they go along. "Follow the science" is nothing more than a talking point. That's why our kids in some states are still not in school, and they want to push out cruising until they have eradicated this virus, which ain't going to happen. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallion Posted May 10, 2021 #12 Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) Judge won't decide on the merits-judge will either grant or deny temporary injunction. If denied, then the case proceeds to trial. If granted-there may be avenues of immediate appeal-which I'm not sure are applicable. If temporary injunction granted that may generally have a tendency to encourage settlement. But the case continues Edited May 10, 2021 by Stallion 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare livingonthebeach Posted May 10, 2021 #13 Share Posted May 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Stallion said: Judge won't decide on the merits-judge will either grant or deny temporary restraining order. If denied, then the case proceeds to trial. If granted-there may be avenues of immediate appeal-which I'm not sure are applicable. If temporary injunction granted that may generally have a tendency to encourage settlement. But the case continues The judge is a Bush appointee, Steven Douglas Merryday. What are your thoughts on the granting / denying the injunction? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Douglas_Merryday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandgeezer Posted May 10, 2021 #14 Share Posted May 10, 2021 34 minutes ago, firefly333 said: And I dont want my tax dollars spent on the cdc stopping the cruise industry. Wish I could fire the whole lot of them. Tired of the power grab. Like either of us has any say in the matter. Doesnt matter what you and I want our tax dollars spent on. If you are going to fire them you might as well fire Fain and his management team as they've done very little to solve the problem while their company is losing in the neighborhood of $300,000,000 per month like it has for over the last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_G Posted May 10, 2021 #15 Share Posted May 10, 2021 54 minutes ago, d9704011 said: Yes, the judge will eventually rule on the merits of each side’s claims. In the meanwhile, do you have an opinion? I think the CDC’s arguments are pretty strong. When an argument side steps the real issue, which is why an industry is being held to higher standard, my opinion is they are wrong. That doesn't always translate to a victory for the plaintiff. There are othrer issues that come into play including politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare livingonthebeach Posted May 10, 2021 #16 Share Posted May 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, grandgeezer said: If you are going to fire them you might as well fire Fain and his management team as they've done very little to solve the problem while their company is losing in the neighborhood of $300,000,000 per month like it has for over the last year. NCL came up with an elaborate plan and submitted it to the CDC a while back and it was rejected. So no matter what Fain would have done it wouldn't have worked with the CDC and he would be back to square one and right where he is right now. The CDC is a tough barrier to cross. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare livingonthebeach Posted May 10, 2021 #17 Share Posted May 10, 2021 20 minutes ago, Auntiemomo said: If left up to the CDC, we'd never have had a vaccine this soon. You need someone to push them, but I wouldn't count on it being done under the current administration. The state Governors need to keep nipping at their heels. They want you to mask and double mask both indoors and outside well into 2023. I'm so done with Fauci and Co. They are just making it up as they go along. "Follow the science" is nothing more than a talking point. That's why our kids in some states are still not in school, and they want to push out cruising until they have eradicated this virus, which ain't going to happen. The FDA is the federal agency that grants approvals for vaccines and it hasn't been officially approved - it's only approved for EUA. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_G Posted May 10, 2021 #18 Share Posted May 10, 2021 59 minutes ago, flamingos said: I want to cruise, but safely. I do not want my tax dollars spent by my governor on this frivolous lawsuit. The governors are losing revenue so I'm not sure they'd agree that it's frivolous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pratique Posted May 10, 2021 #19 Share Posted May 10, 2021 2 hours ago, livingonthebeach said: Just read the CDC's memorandum in its defense -- not looking good for Florida, Alaska or Texas I have not read the Texas brief but Alaska was arguing more narrowly than Florida. Essentially Alaska was only arguing against the part of the CSO that affected shoreside infrastructure requirements. It is possible that the judge could issue a temporary injunction that is narrowly tailored to the relief that the states *might* be entitled to without blocking the entire CSO, which would effectively change nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare At Sea At Peace Posted May 10, 2021 #20 Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Auntiemomo said: If left up to the CDC, we'd never have had a vaccine this soon. You need someone to push them, but I wouldn't count on it being done under the current administration. The state Governors need to keep nipping at their heels. They want you to mask and double mask both indoors and outside well into 2023. I'm so done with Fauci and Co. They are just making it up as they go along. "Follow the science" is nothing more than a talking point. That's why our kids in some states are still not in school, and they want to push out cruising until they have eradicated this virus, which ain't going to happen. Great post. (OMG, another member of sound mind. What a day I found two more. 😲👍) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare livingonthebeach Posted May 10, 2021 #21 Share Posted May 10, 2021 23 minutes ago, Pratique said: I have not read the Texas brief but Alaska was arguing more narrowly than Florida. Essentially Alaska was only arguing against the part of the CSO that affected shoreside infrastructure requirements. It is possible that the judge could issue a temporary injunction that is narrowly tailored to the relief that the states *might* be entitled to without blocking the entire CSO, which would effectively change nothing. I believe Texas points also to lost revenue and loss of cruise visitor spending -- about $65 million they say and that cruise ships accounted for 47% of the Port of Galveston’s revenue in 2019. Alaska, I believe is saying they lost 3 billion. Alaska, until Florida and Texas don't have a plethora of other industries to offset that lost revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
time4u2go Posted May 10, 2021 #22 Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Auntiemomo said: If left up to the CDC, we'd never have had a vaccine this soon. Huh? What did the CDC have to do with vaccine development? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not-enough-cruising Posted May 10, 2021 #23 Share Posted May 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, time4u2go said: Huh? What did the CDC have to do with vaccine development? Absolutely NOTHING 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pratique Posted May 10, 2021 #24 Share Posted May 10, 2021 23 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said: Alaska, I believe is saying they lost 3 billion. Alaska, until Florida and Texas don't have a plethora of other industries to offset that lost revenue. Time to diversify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare livingonthebeach Posted May 10, 2021 #25 Share Posted May 10, 2021 30 minutes ago, Pratique said: Time to diversify. LOL - like offer more of their sled dog ice fishing trips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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