Vaccine not required to cruise - will MSC change policy?

[paulh84]

There are a handful of moving targets here.

 

What we're starting to see from US cruises, so far limited to Alaska, have said vaccinations required. Caribbean cruises from Florida are still up in the air, but a few cruise lines seem to be taking the stance that they can get around whatever Florida put into place pertaining to proof of vaccination. 

 

For US cruises, these vaccination requirements are put into play to satisfy the CSO which is tentatively expiring on Nov 1, 2021. The CSO can also expire if HHS determines that COVID is no longer a public health emergency or the CDC Director pulls the order.

 

Circumstances and the requirements between the time when these July cruises start and when November comes around could look very different. Most cruise lines have indicated they do not intend to make vaccinations a long term requirement. The issue is no one knows exactly what defines the short term. 

 

 

[number5]

I will be cruising on the MSC Virtuosa very shortly. I was aware that passengers who were not vaccinated could also cruise but feel pretty safe learning that before they cruise they must have a covid test and be able to prove it if they are not vaccinated. Also MSC are conducting a nasal swab test just before you go on board. What I really like though is that on a cruise ship for 6000+  they have reduced the number of passengers to 1000. For me that represents a better chance of less crowded areas. They will probably increase the number of passengers later on.

[ziggyuk]

2 hours ago, lienf said:

If I read that article correctly it is dated October 29th last year. Are there any further updates, and how many of their cruise were cut short?

 

I googled it once for you, please research. 

[Toofarfromthesea]

6 hours ago, shipgeeks said:

But if the ship has to return to home port/skip ports, all of us are affected.

Have any of these small 'outbreaks' caused ships to have to return to port, in the last, say, 3 months?

[Toofarfromthesea]

4 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

 

Obviously not which is why I'm booked on Virtuosos. Strange conclusion to draw from my comment.

I take the safest choice at all times, I choose not to use public transport if I can take my own car, or bike.

I wonder why you question my choice, I would rather sail on a vaccinated ship, it's a thought out decision I have made and that's why I booked another NCL on Friday.

My choice and I have explained the reasons, strange you feel the need to question my choice.

Actually, you don't.  The risk of driving is 10 times the risk of public transportation.  

https://www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com/articles/17905-public-transportation-is-10-times-safer-for-commuters-analysis-shows#:~:text=The analysis highlights some of,risk drivers on the roads.&text=Overall%2C the analysis states%2C using,railroads is 18 times safer.

[ziggyuk]

7 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Actually, you don't.  The risk of driving is 10 times the risk of public transportation.  

https://www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com/articles/17905-public-transportation-is-10-times-safer-for-commuters-analysis-shows#:~:text=The analysis highlights some of,risk drivers on the roads.&text=Overall%2C the analysis states%2C using,railroads is 18 times safer.

 

Sorry, there is no mention of contacting Covid in that article.

The risk of driving ones own car has an infinitely lower chance of contracting Covid than taking public transport.

[Toofarfromthesea]

15 minutes ago, ziggyuk said:

 

Sorry, there is no mention of contacting Covid in that article.

The risk of driving ones own car has an infinitely lower chance of contracting Covid than taking public transport.

But the overall risk of driving is 10 times higher.  Are you OK with dying so long as it's not from COVID?

The NYT published an analysis about a year ago putting COVID risk in perspective with other risks.  One comparison was so stark that I still remember it.  In Maryland (I think) the risk of COVID was computed to be comparable to going skydiving every day of the year.

Ah, I found it:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/well/live/putting-the-risk-of-covid-19-in-perspective.html

 

It WAS Maryland.

Living your life to minimize COVID risk while increasing your risk in other, more dangerous, ways is not a strategy I'd care to follow.

Of course if you are vaccinated, the calculus of COVID risk vs. driving risk is even more lopsided in favor of public transportation.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Toofarfromthesea

[ziggyuk]

1 minute ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

But the overall risk of driving is 10 times higher.  Are you OK with dying so long as it's not from COVID?

The NYT published an analysis about a year ago putting COVID risk in perspective with other risks.  One comparison was so stark that I still remember it.  In Maryland (I think) the risk of COVID was computed to be comparable to going skydiving every day of the year.

Ah, I found it:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/well/live/putting-the-risk-of-covid-19-in-perspective.html

 

It WAS Maryland.

 

The conversation you joined was about the risk of contracting covid on a cruise and in day to day life, while you may wish (for whatever reason) to steer it in another direction, that has no interest to me but thank you for your concern for my safety 🙄.

[Toofarfromthesea]

Just now, ziggyuk said:

 

The conversation you joined was about the risk of contracting covid on a cruise and in day to day life, while you may wish (for whatever reason) to steer it in another direction, that has no interest to me but thank you for your concern for my safety 🙄.

OK, but you're the one that raised the issue of driving vs. public transportation to demonstrate your risk awareness.

[sidari]

OP 82 ... I get your frustration on this issue, over 55% of passengers on the first sailing of Virtuosa were first time Cruisers according to a travel agent friend, so I guess it is understandable that there has been repeat threads on the Insurance problem.

[Geobugs]

On 5/23/2021 at 7:17 PM, Alsmez said:

I booked an MSC Cruise for this January before I realized that MSC is not requiring all passengers to be vaccinated. Obviously a lot can happen between now and January, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable cruising with unvaccinated passengers. Most of the other major lines have announced it will be required - any chance MSC will fall in line?

 

Go ahead and get your refund.  100% vaccination rate is not going to happen.

 

[Alsmez]

41 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

 

Go ahead and get your refund.  100% vaccination rate is not going to happen.

 

I fully understand that 100% will be impossible given the presence of children under 12, etc. My question was really whether MSC has shown any inclination to follow the lead of the major US lines and begin requiring that all adults be vaccinated. As far as I have gleaned from internet reports, the answer is no at this point, although as a couple of early responders pointed out, they may change their tune (willingly or not) when they begin sailing from US ports. Time will tell, and of course the entire landscape may look different by the time December (or even final payment for December) rolls around. I just find it rather odd that any cruise line would find it worth the risk (whether real, perceived or media/reputational) to allow unvaccinated adults on board. 

[neptuno]

Some world leaders have kept their heads in the sand, hoping the virus would disappear miraculously.  Modi in India is now realizing the truth like Bolsonaro in Brazil.  And, had we been wearing masks in the US, perhaps many hundreds of thousands  would still be alive today.  There is no reason for MSC to allow anyone over 12 years of age to go aboard unvacinated.   In fact, it would increase MSC's profits by allowing fuller ships.

[Geobugs]

After reading a dozen pro-vaccination posts on cruise critic, I still have not read a well reasoned post on why requiring a vaccine passport has merit.  Can anyone link one? 

 

I can think of ten reasons why requiring a vaccine passport and vaccines will not work.

1. Vaccine passports don't stop the spread of covid-19.

2. Vaccine passports don't properly document covid-19 vaccinations.

3. Vaccine passports cannot be enforced in Florida.

4. Vaccine passports can be obtained without receiving the vaccine.

5. Vaccine passports currently are not required by the largest and third largest cruise lines.

6. The vaccination by Johnson and Johnson is only 66.3% effective.

7. Many people don't get the second vaccination.

8. HIIPA.

9. A certain percentage of the population cannot get the vaccination due to allergies.

10. People with all kinds of contagious diseases are able to travel without a vaccine or vaccine passport.

[Geobugs]

4 minutes ago, optimusprime82 said:

 

Please don't compare a vaccine passport to the holocaust. It's ignorant, offensive to anyone with common sense and decency, and just isn't accurate. It's kind of like comparing a piece of paper showing that you received a shot that protects yourself and others from a deadly virus to the systematic murder of 11 million people... oh wait...

 

The truth hurts doesn't it?  Poll Finds Republicans Particularly Opposed To 'Vaccine Passport'

[Geobugs]

The HIPAA Privacy Rule

The HIPAA Privacy Rule establishes national standards to protect individuals' medical records and other personal health information and applies to health plans, health care clearinghouses, and those health care providers that conduct certain health care transactions electronically.  The Rule requires appropriate safeguards to protect the privacy of personal health information, and sets limits and conditions on the uses and disclosures that may be made of such information without patient authorization. The Rule also gives patients rights over their health information, including rights to examine and obtain a copy of their health records, and to request corrections.

[Geobugs]

Medical exception for most of my family.  Religious exception for me. 

 

[ziggyuk]

7 hours ago, Geobugs said:

CDC is requiring only 95% of passengers to be fully vaccinated.  I will be in the 5%.  Governor DeSantis has done the right thing for Floridians. 

 

The 5% sitting on the dock waving goodbye to the cruise ships 😂, regardless of what your CDC says, the cruise lines that require 100% will deny you boarding regardless of little local laws.
Better bank on MSC keeping their policy the same as you won't be getting on the likes of NCL 😂

[8420PR]

Sooner or later everyone will have covid antibodies - some people from vaccines and other people the hard way from the virus.   In the meantime I expect MSC to continue testing before embarkation in Europe and to follow whatever the CDC recommends in US.   

 

Being vaccinated will have the big benefit of preventing most serious illness and death, as well as things such as entering certain countries without quarantine or not having to quarantine if identified as a close contact.  

 

 

[pmd98052]

6 hours ago, Geobugs said:

 

6. The vaccination by Johnson and Johnson is only 66.3% effective.

 

 

 

Just to comment on this. Its 100% effective at preventing hospitalization and death. Which is what matters.

Edited May 26, 2021 by pmd98052

[pmd98052]

5 hours ago, Geobugs said:

The HIPAA Privacy Rule

The HIPAA Privacy Rule establishes national standards to protect individuals' medical records and other personal health information and applies to health plans, health care clearinghouses, and those health care providers that conduct certain health care transactions electronically.  The Rule requires appropriate safeguards to protect the privacy of personal health information, and sets limits and conditions on the uses and disclosures that may be made of such information without patient authorization. The Rule also gives patients rights over their health information, including rights to examine and obtain a copy of their health records, and to request corrections.

 

Please note that as the owner of your health records you are free to share them with whoever you want. HIPAA does not prevent someone asking for vaccine status. You can refuse to supply it. And there are consequences of refusing to supply that status if you want to cruise on some cruise lines. None of that violates HIPAA.

[pmd98052]

Also laughable to think he had anything to do with Oxford/AstraZeneca program. You know the only one that is non-profit, costs ten times less, and is 100% effective at preventing hospitalization and death with all variants so far.

[Jeremiah1212]

8 hours ago, Geobugs said:

The HIPAA Privacy Rule

The HIPAA Privacy Rule establishes national standards to protect individuals' medical records and other personal health information and applies to health plans, health care clearinghouses, and those health care providers that conduct certain health care transactions electronically.  The Rule requires appropriate safeguards to protect the privacy of personal health information, and sets limits and conditions on the uses and disclosures that may be made of such information without patient authorization. The Rule also gives patients rights over their health information, including rights to examine and obtain a copy of their health records, and to request corrections.

 

Did you read that? In full? 

 

"applies to health plans, health care clearinghouses, and those health care providers that conduct certain health care transactions electronically."

 

You voluntarily providing your information has nothing to do with HIPPA. Zilch. If a cruise line contacted your physician and received your vax records without your consent? That would be an issue. May be time to go find more tinfoil for that hat...

[MotownVoice]

Now that kelleherdl has taken it upon themselves to turn this thread from a legitimate discussion about new, unprecedented boarding policy on cruiseships, to common misnformation and propagandized political drivel, I hope the moderators will have to good sense to close comment on it permanently, if not delete it all together.

[Homosassa]

For anyone who wants facts about vaccine development, clinical trials and the review process, there is a thread on the Celebrity forum called "Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?" It is over 200 pages long at this point.

 

The thread was started last July and developed into a place where various Cruise Critic members who have day jobs as doctors, researchers, and regulatory scientific reviewers discussed the various technologies, clinical trials, and vaccine results. There was also explanations on what political blustering actually said if one bothered to read the actual orders and laws (i.e.;, loopholes that will allow cruise lines or other business to require proof of vaccinations).

 

At times the posts are technical, but at some point a poster will translate into lay language.

 

The Celebrity forum moderator left the thread up as while it did not discuss cruises, the vaccine development would have an impact on the restart of cruising. The thread is also self policing. Those who came in with spurious statements or were there just to stir the pot were  basically shown the door by the posters.

 

If you want facts, try the thread.