An Issue with Celebrity’s Plan?

[cscurlock]

2 hours ago, ronandcarla said:

Wait till Disney gets in the picture and requires everyone of proper age to be vaccinated.  DeSantis will fold; and he should have never been involved with this issue to start with;  We feel so sorry for all of the workers of every profession in all of the ports in Florida who have waited for so long to start  sailing again.

Disney will go the royal route until all kids can get vaccinated or when the age range is too small to overcome the 5% threshold.  After that it'll be 100%.

[bajathree]

I don't think any of the parks will ever require proof of vaccination. They haven't thus far. Here in FL  the Hard Rock casino has fully open now with no masks, temp checks anymore or anything....and trust me...they make the casino on either Celebrity or Royal look like nothing as far as the amount of people clustered together.

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by bajathree

[JamieLogical]

Forbes is reporting some sort of carve-out for cruise lines is in the works:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/05/30/florida-governor-ron-desantis-cruise-line-exemption-vaccine-passport-ban/?sh=4d5d81715ed5

[Nymich]

The good news is all this posturing is happening during the Florida slow season for cruising.  People are freaking out because they haven't cruised for so long! The good news is we aren't dealing with all this during the winter season.  

Half full

Edited June 1, 2021 by Nymich

[JamieLogical]

This story is getting real traction in the media now. In addition to the Forbes article, CNN has been covering it during most of their regular news hours. I am curious whether the increased media scrutiny is going to encourage DeSantis to cave or if he will feel compelled to double-down, since any caving is likely to be more highly publicized now.... 

[Jeremiah1212]

14 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

Forbes is reporting some sort of carve-out for cruise lines is in the works:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/05/30/florida-governor-ron-desantis-cruise-line-exemption-vaccine-passport-ban/?sh=4d5d81715ed5

The Forbes article is pretty confused but there are a lot of pieces out there basically saying a big WTH. On one hand he wants the CDC to drop the CSO and let the cruise lines self-regulate in the CDC's absence, then on the other hand he thinks he can deny them to use the one safety net they have available. 

 

it's becoming clear that he will be painted as the one holding up the industry at this point. That may hurt delicate egos and allow things to advance. 

[graphicguy]

23 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

This story is getting real traction in the media now. In addition to the Forbes article, CNN has been covering it during most of their regular news hours. I am curious whether the increased media scrutiny is going to encourage DeSantis to cave or if he will feel compelled to double-down, since any caving is likely to be more highly publicized now.... 

Thanks, Jamie!  Marketwatch is reporting that Celebrity is the first one sailing out of FL with 95% + COVID vaccines required.  That's happening in less than 4 weeks.  So, someone...somewhere...in FL is going to find a way to circumvent or spin this.  But, it has CDC's blessing.

 

Royal is going the "test cruise" route.  That does not sound like something I'd want to do....wear masks and distance so those under 16 can cruise, too.  Wouldn't be interested in that, at all.

 

I'm just wondering given my sailing, which embarks on July 31, will enforce the "under 12 year old" vaccination requirement.  That takes effect August 1. 

[Bo1953]

On 5/26/2021 at 11:54 PM, FlyerTalker said:

 

Yep...those Caribbean cruises from Massachusetts will go over big with the public.

Nine (9) days and out of Bayonne, I will be right there! LOL

 

bon voyage

[Bo1953]

On 5/27/2021 at 1:28 AM, Blackduck59 said:

 

State waters??? I don't know for sure but I think you will find that all tidal waters are under federal jurisdiction.

Thanks B59 some of us missed this important law in our civics classes between 5th and 8th grades and most certainly by the 11th grade here in the U,S,...

 

bon voyage

[abbydancer2003]

13 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

 

 

I'm just wondering given my sailing, which embarks on July 31, will enforce the "under 12 year old" vaccination requirement.  That takes effect August 1. 

I'm on the Millennium on 7/31 and am wondering the same thing.

[Jeremiah1212]

17 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Thanks, Jamie!  Marketwatch is reporting that Celebrity is the first one sailing out of FL with 95% + COVID vaccines required.  That's happening in less than 4 weeks.  So, someone...somewhere...in FL is going to find a way to circumvent or spin this.  But, it has CDC's blessing.

 

Royal is going the "test cruise" route.  That does not sound like something I'd want to do....wear masks and distance so those under 16 can cruise, too.  Wouldn't be interested in that, at all.

 

I'm just wondering given my sailing, which embarks on July 31, will enforce the "under 12 year old" vaccination requirement.  That takes effect August 1. 

 

That will only apply to cruises leaving on or after August 1. The age requirement for your cruise will be 16. 

[Smmessineo]

Excerpt from an article on Florida politics dot com this morning. 

Maybe DeSantis is going to double down.

 

 

---According to Forbes, the state and the industry are looking to distinguish between on-land and at-sea. Cruisers would be under the state’s protections in the terminal, but the state would consider them outside its jurisdiction once they step on the ship.

However, DeSantis’ press secretary, Christina Pushaw, said that was a possible resolution floated by one cruise line executive, not the Governor’s Office.

The conference call, “leaked” to the unofficial Royal Caribbean Blog, featured Celebrity Cruises Senior Vice President Dondra Ritzenthaler speaking to travel agents. Her comments don’t represent the Governor’s Office’s position, Pushaw continued.

Cruise ships are in state waters when docked at a port, a topic the Forbes article addressed but Pushaw used to reject the report.

She also rebuked Forbes’ reference to a letter sent by Florida Surgeon General Scott Rivkees to Royal Caribbean and Celebrity telling the cruise lines they don’t need the state’s permission to sail. Forbes noted the vaccine passport as Florida’s hurdle for the industry.

“What’s standing in the way of cruise lines is the CDC requiring passengers to show their papers,” Pushaw said.

[coffeebean]

On 5/30/2021 at 12:17 PM, kearney said:

The CDC keeps updating their guidelines... makes it impossible for cruislines to tell you anything until they feel that the CDC has stopped making changes... just in the last week rules changed on masks (first outside then inside), excursions,  and just a few days ago they indicated that somethings were left up to the discretion of the cruise line.. So as of May 26... still not firm...plus there is the court case in mediation... hopefully we will know more next week. They can't be transparent over things they have no visibility to. I suggest you cancel and wait until the smoke has cleared..because they are not mind readers.  One of the contracts..Royal or Celebrity..can't recall... basically alerts passengers that they may or may not have to wear masks, socially distance and a whole bunch of things that appear to be no longer applicable...but the CDC could always reverse course if there is a bad outbreak.. So until you are on the ship you won't know what to expect.

 

Boarding a 100% vaccinated crew and passenger cruise such as what NCL is promising, would pretty much guarantee a restriction free cruise. At least, I would hope it would. I would trust that scenario more so than a "mixed" cruise or even a 95/98% scenario.

 

Let me pose this question to all of you intently reading this thread............

 

1)  Would you, as a fully vaccinated passenger NOT traveling with any passengers who are not vaccinated, even consider cruising on a "mixed" cruise which would impose restrictions such as masking, distancing, limited capacity in venues and what ever other restrictions and protocols which may be in place?

 

2)  Would you, as a fully vaccinated passenger NOT traveling with any passengers who are not vaccinated, even consider cruising on a 95/98% vaccinated cruise knowing that those percentage requirements may not be met at embarkation? If that is the case, you would be subjected to masking, distancing and limited capacity in venues not to mention other restrictions and  protocols will need to be followed.

 

3)  Would you as a fully vaccinated passenger and NOT traveling with any passengers who are not vaccinated, much prefer to cruise on a 100% vaccinated passenger and crew ship? In fact, this is the ONLY cruise scenario you would consider.

 

I vote for #3.

[Jeremiah1212]

The Forbes article is not good. What was said from the Celebrity SVP is that the chairman (Richard Fain) was working with Carnival and NCL to write a joint statement to the governor to explain why cruising is different and why they need to require vaccines right now. There was definitely no reference to the state and cruise lines actively working together to carve out a workaround. That very well may be happening, but that is not what was said at all. 

[coffeebean]

On 5/30/2021 at 2:42 PM, Dwight1 said:

My next cruise is not until 2/21/22 but for my flight to FLL I booked a fully refundable/changeable ticket with jet blue. My return is thru Celebrity just in case everything is moved to another port. 
But I did read where a concert in FL is charging $19.99 with proof of vaccination and lacking that the ticket $299. In compliance with the law but certainly discourages non vaccinated. To date organizers say no non vaccinated tickets have sold . So Celebrity, don’t require CDC documentation for those over 12, just have a non vaccinated price. $2,000 per person vaccinated documents, $6,000 per person no documentation. All legal and in line with the law.

That is crafty. It just might work. To think, our governor is trying not to have two different classes of people in the state of Florida. There are ways to get around the law which bans vaccine passports. It can be done. LOL.

[coffeebean]

On 5/30/2021 at 8:09 PM, nocl said:

Now lets say the Governor decides not to enforce the law against cruise ships.  How long do you think it would be before another business is Florida decides to sue over selective enforcement.

Cruise ships are a completely different environment than any business on land. The passengers are essentially "held captive" and unable to vacate said premises when at sea. The circumstances certainly are different than any land based business and that can not be disputed.

 

Cruise lines must make sure they maintain a safe environment for their passengers who are essentially "held captive" on a ship when out to sea. Doesn't that differentiate the cruise lines from any land based business? They are not comparable, IMHO.

 

I have no experience in law but I'm just grasping at straws to try and make some sense out of  this nonsense.

[JamieLogical]

37 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Boarding a 100% vaccinated crew and passenger cruise such as what NCL is promising, would pretty much guarantee a restriction free cruise. At least, I would hope it would. I would trust that scenario more so than a "mixed" cruise or even a 95/98% scenario.

 

Let me pose this question to all of you intently reading this thread............

 

1)  Would you, as a fully vaccinated passenger NOT traveling with any passengers who are not vaccinated, even consider cruising on a "mixed" cruise which would impose restrictions such as masking, distancing, limited capacity in venues and what ever other restrictions and protocols which may be in place?

 

2)  Would you, as a fully vaccinated passenger NOT traveling with any passengers who are not vaccinated, even consider cruising on a 95/98% vaccinated cruise knowing that those percentage requirements may not be met at embarkation? If that is the case, you would be subjected to masking, distancing and limited capacity in venues not to mention other restrictions and  protocols will need to be followed.

 

3)  Would you as a fully vaccinated passenger and NOT traveling with any passengers who are not vaccinated, much prefer to cruise on a 100% vaccinated passenger and crew ship? In fact, this is the ONLY cruise scenario you would consider.

 

I vote for #3.

 

I would definitely prefer a fully vaccinated cruise, but if I end up on a "mixed" cruise, I would hope the cruise line would follow the whatever the current guidance is from the CDC for both vaccinated and unvaccinated passengers. What I *don't* want for any cruise I am on is for everyone to have to mask and distance as if we were all unvaccinated just to make things "equitable" for all passengers.

[coffeebean]

1 hour ago, abbydancer said:

I'm on the Millennium on 7/31 and am wondering the same thing.

NCL is requiring those 12 and above be vaccinated by August 1st. I know that doesn't really answer your question about Celebrity but just thought I would put that out there.

[JamieLogical]

10 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

NCL is requiring those 12 and above be vaccinated by August 1st. I know that doesn't really answer your question about Celebrity but just thought I would put that out there.

 

I thought NCL was requiring ALL passengers to be vaccinated and if you were too young to receive the vaccine, then too bad through October 31?

 

Here are some quotes from the NCL site:

 

Mandatory Vaccinations Against Covid-19 on Initial Voyages

All guests and crew must be fully vaccinated, at least 2 weeks prior to departure, in order to board. Guest vaccination requirements are currently for all sailings embarking through October 31, 2021– we will follow the science to make determinations on requirements for all other future sailings.

 

Are children allowed to sail on your ships if they are not vaccinated?

The safety and security of our guests, crew and communities we visit is our number one priority. In order to provide the safest cruise experience possible, all guests and crew will need to be fully vaccinated for all sailings with embarkation dates prior to October 31, 2021. Therefore, minors who have not yet been eligible to be vaccinated will not be permitted to sail on these voyages. Minors who have been fully vaccinated are welcome to sail.

 

We look forward to the day when we can safely welcome these guests back onboard our ships, when the public health environment allows us to modify our protocols accordingly. We will continue to constantly evaluate our health and safety protocols with our expert Council and will follow the latest science to determine requirements for all future sailings embarking beginning in November 2021. We commit to keeping guests apprised of any policy changes as far in advance as possible of their scheduled vacation.

Edited June 1, 2021 by JamieLogical

[Honolulu Blue]

1 minute ago, JamieLogical said:

I thought NCL was requiring ALL passengers to be vaccinated and if you were too young to receive the vaccine, then too bad through October 31?

 

That's also my understanding.  It's Royal that is shifting its required vaccinated kid age on August 1.

[coffeebean]

15 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I would definitely prefer a fully vaccinated cruise, but if I end up on a "mixed" cruise, I would hope the cruise line would follow the whatever the current guidance is from the CDC for both vaccinated and unvaccinated passengers. What I *don't* want for any cruise I am on is for everyone to have to mask and distance as if we were all unvaccinated just to make things "equitable" for all passengers.

I don't know how that is even possible (with one exception). That would be using an honor system on board and that most certainly will not work.

 

The exception is........If the cruise lines come up with some sort of ID system which all on board are able to identify, such as a green bracelet for vaccinated people and a red bracelet for un-vaccinated people. Maybe that might work to allow vaccinated people to move freely on board without masking and having to maintain distance from others. This would create a "class system" on board but at least those who are vaccinated will be able to reap the benefits of being vaccinated. That is my only suggestion and I'm sure those who are un-vaccinated will not like it one bit.

[graphicguy]

Still hard for me to understand why the FL Governor keeps throwing roadblocks up to keep the cruise lines from restarting.  Granted, I live in OH.  But, this has to be some sort of political suicide for him to continue this way because he's power drunk.

 

I do feel badly for the cruise lines....mostly.  Carnival has a large portion of kids as passengers.  So, I can sort of see where they're coming from with the vaccine requirements.  Kids aren't vaccinated?  That means Mom and Dad aren't cruising either.  Or, at least Mom and Dad will be pulling their masks down every time they sip a beer or eat a French Fry.  Plus, kids wearing masks nearly constantly for a week can't be pleasant, either.

 

That said, there are other cruise lines out there outside of Disney and Carnival, which don't depend on kids sailing.  Those CAN sail fully vaccinated without onerous restrictions.  And, those passengers happen to be the ones with the cash in their wallets.

 

The Governor and the State of FL lose if he keeps this silliness up.  Plus, he's keeping the cruise capital of the world from starting back up....an industry desperately in need to start back up, and one which has been devastated by COVID, which they have to protect themselves from.

 

There is just no good end to this nonsense.

 

However, some of the lines (NCL comes to mind) has really punted the start up.  They said one thing, cancelled that, did another, cancelled that, doing something else, say, in Alaska (which I still think is in jeopardy of NCL cancelling) because of very, very poor planning and execution.  NCL is advertising start up with new menus instead of getting ships to set sail.  Although, I do think they had the right idea for Caribbean Cruises...can't cruise out of FL?  OK, make a deal with D.R, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, etc.

 

Again, at least Celebrity has been consistent with their plans, and stuck to them.

 

 

[JamieLogical]

3 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I don't know how that is even possible (with one exception). That would be using an honor system on board and that most certainly will not work.

 

The exception is........If the cruise lines come up with some sort of ID system which all on board are able to identify, such as a green bracelet for vaccinated people and a red bracelet for un-vaccinated people. Maybe that might work to allow vaccinated people to move freely on board without masking and having to maintain distance from others. This would create a "class system" on board but at least those who are vaccinated will be able to reap the benefits of being vaccinated. That is my only suggestion and I'm sure those who are un-vaccinated will not like it one bit.

 

Yes, I was assuming that there would be some sort of identification system. Even if kids are the only unvaccinated passengers on board, I can't tell a 12 year old from an 11 year old by sight. It would only be obvious with the really young kids and the older kids. So there would still need to be bracelets or something to identify which kids are vaccinated and which are not. I imagine they would turn a lot of venues into "adult only" areas in order to not have to enforce mask and distancing rules in those spaces.

Edited June 1, 2021 by JamieLogical

[coffeebean]

5 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I thought NCL was requiring ALL passengers to be vaccinated and if you were too young to receive the vaccine, then too bad through October 31?

 

Here are some quotes from the NCL site:

 

Mandatory Vaccinations Against Covid-19 on Initial Voyages

All guests and crew must be fully vaccinated, at least 2 weeks prior to departure, in order to board. Guest vaccination requirements are currently for all sailings embarking through October 31, 2021– we will follow the science to make determinations on requirements for all other future sailings.

 

Are children allowed to sail on your ships if they are not vaccinated?

The safety and security of our guests, crew and communities we visit is our number one priority. In order to provide the safest cruise experience possible, all guests and crew will need to be fully vaccinated for all sailings with embarkation dates prior to October 31, 2021. Therefore, minors who have not yet been eligible to be vaccinated will not be permitted to sail on these voyages. Minors who have been fully vaccinated are welcome to sail.

 

We look forward to the day when we can safely welcome these guests back onboard our ships, when the public health environment allows us to modify our protocols accordingly. We will continue to constantly evaluate our health and safety protocols with our expert Council and will follow the latest science to determine requirements for all future sailings embarking beginning in November 2021. We commit to keeping guests apprised of any policy changes as far in advance as possible of their scheduled vacation.

Yes, you are correct that NCL requires ALL passengers to be vaccinated. I guess I didn't quite word that properly. I was trying to say that those 12 and older will be allowed on board if they are vaccinated.

[coffeebean]

5 minutes ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

That's also my understanding.  It's Royal that is shifting its required vaccinated kid age on August 1.

OK. My bad.