An Issue with Celebrity’s Plan?

[graphicguy]

4 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

Has that stopped him yet?

I can just see it now.  2,000 or so, mostly 40-50-60+ year olds, luggage in tow, wearing the oversized and floppy flowered hats, and plaid shorts, with sandals over socks, waiving their CDC COVID Vaccine cards with their passports in the air, being blocked by the National Guard.

 

The cruise lines would make skid marks getting out of all their Florida ports in search of new homes.

[JamieLogical]

3 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

The fact that the law goes into effect July 1 is meaningless.  The Governor’s EO remains in effect through June 30, so the June 26 sailing is not out of the woods. 

 

DeSantis himself pointed out the fact that the law doesn't go into effect until July 1, so that must have some relevance?

[harkinmr]

1 minute ago, JamieLogical said:

 

DeSantis himself pointed out the fact that the law doesn't go into effect until July 1, so that must have some relevance?

Don’t read too much into his statement about the date. He’s just pumping up the legislation. He has also made very clear his perspective on Celebrity’s vaccinated sailings. I don’t imagine he meant “except for that June 26 cruise”. Wink wink. 

[Honolulu Blue]

10 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

Would he pull some completely crazy stunt like calling out the National Guard to prevent passengers from boarding the ships? I just can't even begin to guess.

 

7 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

I can’t even imagine the uproar and the fallout from the National Guard being called out to block passengers, who paid for their cruise, from boarding.  That would be a PR disaster for Desantis.

 

My dream photo-op (as a lover of dramatic PR boomerangs) is a state trooper or especially DeSantis himself somehow getting to the bridge and trying to slap the cuffs on Captain Kate.  She could play it any number of different ways and make them look absolutely horrible.

[JamieLogical]

The concert that someone mentioned earlier in the thread, where they were charging something like $20 admission for people who showed their vaccine cards and $200 admission for people who didn't.... I think that actually went off successfully. Saw something about it on the news Tuesday. So maybe that is the path forward? Cruise fare is the normal, going rate for vaccinated passengers and then people who don't show their vaccine cards have to pay an extra $5000/person or something prohibitive?

[Jeremiah1212]

44 minutes ago, bajathree said:

We must have been on different calls then.

 

 

I just listened again.....

 

"He was talking about restaurants, bars, hotels, Disney. Cruise ships were not open yet. Our chairman, the Governor, NCL and Carnival are all working to iron out a statement to articulate how cruising will be different than 'in the state'. We are working through how 'we word it' to where he continues to have his statement that FL residents will not have to show vaccination proof to go to Target and Walmart, but how cruising is a little different and the CDC requires we do these things so people do not have to wear masks, etc. Be patience. We are super close. Will not release total protocols until we have that formalized statement from the governor. He [governor] is 100% aligned and don't stop selling because he knows the ships are a little bit of an anomaly from Walmart and restaurants and bars in Florida." 

 

Of course this is in total opposition to what continues to come out of the governors office almost daily since the 27th. Dondra's key objective is also clear with 'don't stop selling'. That's her job. I wouldn't entirely dismiss her statements but she can be a bit lofty with her delivery. 

 

I don't know who to believe honestly but after he didn't get his way with yesterday's injunction, I could 100% see him digging in his heels on the vaccine issue to wield some more power. 

[cscurlock]

42 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I really think the outcome will be that these ships sail, at some point, FL tries to impose the fine, the cruise lines go to court for an injunction, there is an ensuing law suit, and then it is up to DeSantis and FL whether they want to pursue the law suit. But it's so hard to guess with DeSantis being such a wild card. Would he pull some completely crazy stunt like calling out the National Guard to prevent passengers from boarding the ships? I just can't even begin to guess.

 

Note: the law does not go into effect until July 1, so the June 26 sailing on the Edge should be unaffected, possibly even a couple sailings after that if the request for proof of vaccination comes from Celebrity before June 26?

The law doesn't state the penalty is we will send the national guard to block passengers from going on the vessel.  It just states there is a fine. So I think that would be against Florida law if he did that.  The cruise lines would get an injunction to keep sailing until the lawsuit between Celebrity and the state of Florida is resolved.

[Jeremiah1212]

1 hour ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Any idea what the latest strategy might be to not fall under the new law? I know there have been a few guesses made here on CC, but just curious if there is any hint as to what their actual plans might be?

 

Not a word. I think they are an impasse until they get resolution on the vaccination issue. Earlier in the week the CDC (I think it way? It wasn't Celebrity) said there are 2 ships approved to go perform restricted sailings. We know one is Edge and presumably the other is Equinox. The July 18th date was floated then that was pulled back. 

However - looking at Equinox prices, the July 4, 11 and 18 sailings have prices starting at nearly $2,200/pp for an inside. July 25 returns back to semi normal. There are definitely a lot of open cabins on these sailings.  It's possible they priced those first 3 July cruises high to discourage people gaming FCC's before they officially cancel. That's just my speculation. 

[bajathree]

18 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

I just listened again.....

 

"He was talking about restaurants, bars, hotels, Disney. Cruise ships were not open yet. Our chairman, the Governor, NCL and Carnival are all working to iron out a statement to articulate how cruising will be different than 'in the state'. We are working through how 'we word it' to where he continues to have his statement that FL residents will not have to show vaccination proof to go to Target and Walmart, but how cruising is a little different and the CDC requires we do these things so people do not have to wear masks, etc. Be patience. We are super close. Will not release total protocols until we have that formalized statement from the governor. He [governor] is 100% aligned and don't stop selling because he knows the ships are a little bit of an anomaly from Walmart and restaurants and bars in Florida." 

 

Of course this is in total opposition to what continues to come out of the governors office almost daily since the 27th. Dondra's key objective is also clear with 'don't stop selling'. That's her job. I wouldn't entirely dismiss her statements but she can be a bit lofty with her delivery. 

 

I don't know who to believe honestly but after he didn't get his way with yesterday's injunction, I could 100% see him digging in his heels on the vaccine issue to wield some more power. 

Exactly 😉 Who to believe. The governors office sure doesn't seem to even be on the same page with Celebrity right now.

[bajathree]

6 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

Not a word. I think they are an impasse until they get resolution on the vaccination issue. Earlier in the week the CDC (I think it way? It wasn't Celebrity) said there are 2 ships approved to go perform restricted sailings. We know one is Edge and presumably the other is Equinox. The July 18th date was floated then that was pulled back. 

However - looking at Equinox prices, the July 4, 11 and 18 sailings have prices starting at nearly $2,200/pp for an inside. July 25 returns back to semi normal. There are definitely a lot of open cabins on these sailings.  It's possible they priced those first 3 July cruises high to discourage people gaming FCC's before they officially cancel. That's just my speculation. 

There is lots of availability because there is very little confidence on any of these sailings with DeSantis on the news every day going on and on and most local news reporting that ships may be blocked from sailing in FL. So how are TA's supposed to sell a product they don't have answers to as to how Celebrity is going to get around the governors new law preventing proof of vaccine. Same goes with people booking direct...the public is in the dark right now.

[LGW59]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

I can just see it now.  2,000 or so, mostly 40-50-60+ year olds, luggage in tow, wearing the oversized and floppy flowered hats, and plaid shorts, with sandals over socks, waiving their CDC COVID Vaccine cards with their passports in the air, being blocked by the National Guard.

 

The cruise lines would make skid marks getting out of all their Florida ports in search of new homes.

“Skid marks “, love it, that  is hysterical dude!!

[Bo1953]

On 6/1/2021 at 7:44 PM, colliece said:

You clearly did not follow the conversation and are making a lot of assumptions, the comment was made about someone that cannot take the vaccine due to a preexisting medical condition, not that they have a disability because of COVID.  They are being denied service due to a medical condition.  They are basically relegated to the 5% of slots available.  I have no problem with them asking about vaccine status as again I said nothing about that, only the small percentage who can't take it, that is why we have ADA requirements.  

 

Another thing to consider is those that have had COVID are more immune than anyone with the vaccine, or at least that is what the science is showing.  Again I have no problem asking, I do have a problem with them keeping a database of private medical information of any kind,  

c - personally, I would not consider a list of vaccines administered for 'public health reasons' and travel vs what meds one may or may not be taking or treatments for dis-eases diagnosed etc... that is not considered a world wide health issue at the time of travel.

 

In health and bon voyage

[Bo1953]

51 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

The concert that someone mentioned earlier in the thread, where they were charging something like $20 admission for people who showed their vaccine cards and $200 admission for people who didn't.... I think that actually went off successfully. Saw something about it on the news Tuesday. So maybe that is the path forward? Cruise fare is the normal, going rate for vaccinated passengers and then people who don't show their vaccine cards have to pay an extra $5000/person or something prohibitive?

Great idea but there are more than a few who would anti up the extra $5k to prove that they will not be deterred.... LOL

 

After all, many of us can derive more pleasure from taking a cruise vs going to a concert... at any set price point.

 

In health and bon voyage

[Oceansaway17]

1 hour ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

 

My dream photo-op (as a lover of dramatic PR boomerangs) is a state trooper or especially DeSantis himself somehow getting to the bridge and trying to slap the cuffs on Captain Kate.  She could play it any number of different ways and make them look absolutely horrible.

 

 

do not worry once they see her hairless cat, they will run for their lives.   

[kearney]

They won't stop sailings... just fine the company up to $5,000/passenger... at least that is the threat. Now perhaps a court will throw that out...but that is a hefty fine given the average passenger likely pays less than half that for the cruise

[cscurlock]

10 minutes ago, kearney said:

They won't stop sailings... just fine the company up to $5,000/passenger... at least that is the threat. Now perhaps a court will throw that out...but that is a hefty fine given the average passenger likely pays less than half that for the cruise

Agree, they will fine the cruise lines and then it will go to a court to determine if the rule can apply to international commerce.  There is no other penalty so ships will sail.

[graphicguy]

I just saw the interview with Carnival's President from this a.m. as she welcomed the MardiGras to FL.  She was pretty clear that initially, COVID vaccinations would be required.  And, she was working with the CDC for a plan to allow children to cruise.  But, first cruises out, COVID vaccination will be required.  AND, that they had a process in place to allow passengers ti UPLOAD their CDC Covid vaccination cards to Carnival's check in process.

 

NOT ONCE did she say a word about, or even mention Desantis' name.  It's like the cruise lines are all treating him as a non-entity....which is probably the right way to handle this.

[cscurlock]

1 minute ago, graphicguy said:

I just saw the interview with Carnival's President from this a.m. as she welcomed the MardiGras to FL.  She was pretty clear that initially, COVID vaccinations would be required.  And, she was working with the CDC for a plan to allow children to cruise.  But, first cruises out, COVID vaccination will be required.  AND, that they had a process in place to allow passengers ti UPLOAD their CDC Covid vaccination cards to Carnival's check in process.

 

NOT ONCE did she say a word about, or even mention Desantis' name.  It's like the cruise lines are all treating him as a non-entity....which is probably the right way to handle this.

Agree.  Might as well ignore for now.  Its probably cheaper than having the ship out of commission.  

[Jeremiah1212]

9 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

I just saw the interview with Carnival's President from this a.m. as she welcomed the MardiGras to FL.  She was pretty clear that initially, COVID vaccinations would be required.  And, she was working with the CDC for a plan to allow children to cruise.  But, first cruises out, COVID vaccination will be required.  AND, that they had a process in place to allow passengers ti UPLOAD their CDC Covid vaccination cards to Carnival's check in process.

 

NOT ONCE did she say a word about, or even mention Desantis' name.  It's like the cruise lines are all treating him as a non-entity....which is probably the right way to handle this.

 

Also interesting that she specially calls out they have 'worked with CDC and other Federal' agencies'. I don't follow Carnival but her comments here are a complete 180 from her earlier rather defiant stance that they had no desire to require a vaccine.

 

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/travel/video/carnival-cruise-line-president-talks-restarting-cruise-industry-78081592

[graphicguy]

20 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

Also interesting that she specially calls out they have 'worked with CDC and other Federal' agencies'. I don't follow Carnival but her comments here are a complete 180 from her earlier rather defiant stance that they had no desire to require a vaccine.

 

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/travel/video/carnival-cruise-line-president-talks-restarting-cruise-industry-78081592

Yeah…noticed that.  I think her lawyers had a chat about strategy.  Plus, she saw the numbers in favor of sailing with the COVID vaccine in place.

 

If Carnival is saying this, NCL is saying this, and Celebrity already has said it, I think it’s pretty clear that cruising will start back up with COVID Vaccine(s) as part of the requirements for passengers to sail.

 

Don’t know how long that requirement will be in place.  But, it’s going to be at least for the June, July, maybe August sailings.

[D C]

4 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I really think the outcome will be that these ships sail, at some point, FL tries to impose the fine, the cruise lines go to court for an injunction, there is an ensuing law suit, and then it is up to DeSantis and FL whether they want to pursue the law suit. But it's so hard to guess with DeSantis being such a wild card. Would he pull some completely crazy stunt like calling out the National Guard to prevent passengers from boarding the ships? I just can't even begin to guess.

 

Note: the law does not go into effect until July 1, so the June 26 sailing on the Edge should be unaffected, possibly even a couple sailings after that if the request for proof of vaccination comes from Celebrity before June 26?

 

4 hours ago, graphicguy said:

I can’t even imagine the uproar and the fallout from the National Guard being called out to block passengers, who paid for their cruise, from boarding.  That would be a PR disaster for Desantis.

 

 

There is no basis for that.  The law has a penalty in the form of a fine, not an order to close businesses.

[D C]

2 hours ago, cscurlock said:

Agree, they will fine the cruise lines and then it will go to a court to determine if the rule can apply to international commerce.  There is no other penalty so ships will sail.

Bingo!

I think the regulation of commerce (international commerce especially) is what will come back to bite DeSantis in the long run.  Guessing this will be a federal lawsuit from the get-go and not one in Florida courts.

[cscurlock]

9 minutes ago, D C said:

Bingo!

I think the regulation of commerce (international commerce especially) is what will come back to bite DeSantis in the long run.  Guessing this will be a federal lawsuit from the get-go and not one in Florida courts.

Correct, since its in violation of the constitution commerce clause it will go to federal court.  

[Cruising89143]

2 hours ago, graphicguy said:

I just saw the interview with Carnival's President from this a.m. as she welcomed the MardiGras to FL.  She was pretty clear that initially, COVID vaccinations would be required.  And, she was working with the CDC for a plan to allow children to cruise.  But, first cruises out, COVID vaccination will be required.  AND, that they had a process in place to allow passengers ti UPLOAD their CDC Covid vaccination cards to Carnival's check in process.

 

NOT ONCE did she say a word about, or even mention Desantis' name.  It's like the cruise lines are all treating him as a non-entity....which is probably the right way to handle this.

Just watched this interview and she did clearly state that vaccines would be required in order to board. Sounds to me like the cruise lines know something more than they’re letting on with regards to guests having to show proof of vaccination. 

[graphicguy]

1 hour ago, cruisingator2 said:

Just watched this interview and she did clearly state that vaccines would be required in order to board. Sounds to me like the cruise lines know something more than they’re letting on with regards to guests having to show proof of vaccination. 

None of them are mentioning Desantis, either.  She said they have a process in the works to have the CDC COVID Vaccines uploaded.  I mentioned before, being in the tech world for decades (and just recently retired from it), AI is amazing these days.  A passenger, from wherever they live, in the comfort of their own home, will be able to upload their CDC Covid Vaccine card, have it scanned by an AI source for proof of genuineness and authenticity, and stroll right on board upon embarkation day without having to show anything more than their ID/Passport to embark.

 

I just read earlier that Royal Caribbean is requiring a COVID Vaccine for their test cruises, too.  Not surprising given they are a part of the same group as Celebrity.  Celebrity just isn't doing the test cruises and going with, what appears to be no children initially.

 

All the major (and all the minor) cruise companies seem to be requiring the CDC COVID Vaccination Card for these initial cruises.  It sounds like they're just ignoring Desantis, as he can't stop them.