So the states can mandate the rules?

[coffeebean]

1 hour ago, mstove said:

Partially true, but if countries require vaccinations to enter, you could easily get to go home on the next flight.  Much like countries that require yellow fever (or other vaccines).  You get there, show proof of vaccination, or you get to go home on the next available flight (not at their cost, either).  This isn't new to Covid times, it just may end up including more countries than in the past - even if it isn't so far.   I wouldn't be surprised if part of being allowed to fly to some countries requires the airlines to be part of it.  If memory serves (always questionable 🙂 ) Air France checked to see if I had my yellow fever proof before I headed to west Africa years ago.  I don't recall whether they would have let me board without it, or if it was an actual requirement to get on the plane.  I do know we weren't getting through customs without it.  

I commented on a vaccine required to enter Africa and I said it was the small pox vaccine. Oops. My bad. I stand corrected as it should be the Yellow Fever vaccine.

Edited June 8, 2021 by coffeebean

[Joseph2017China]

53 minutes ago, Canadianmama3 said:

Airlines often enforce entry requirements of the countries they are flying into.  For example people now have to provide proof of a negative covid test before flying back to Canada.   Airlines are responsible to enforce this will not allow people to board if they don’t have it.  
 

Airlines will start enforcing proof of vaccine once countries start requiring it.  And that will happen.  So these “vaccine passport” bans will either be ignored or will impact Americans ability to travel internationally.   

Please reread......the airlines do not require a vaccine, and never have.  What an airline does is check to make sure you have all the requirements to enter the country you are going to.....because if they don't check it, they will need to fly you back.  They also check your passport.  When I go to China, they check my passport and visa.  Last month, they checked my PCR test.  (not my vaccine card).  They only check the items required to make sure they aren't stuck returning you.

 

[wolfcathorse]

23 minutes ago, chefchick said:

Okay, let me counter your ridiculous statement with one of my own...My advice....if you choose to not get a vaccination that you are eligible for, please stay off cruise ships for the time being...my vacation does not need to be ruined or stopped short just because you are afraid of needles. 🙄

👍 amen!

[mauraoel]

3 hours ago, Joseph2017China said:

Really?  Since when did you need a vaccine to get on an international flight?  I have been on two of them already, and there is no such rule.  Don't get confused with what a country wants the flight is going to.  Stop the false reporting.....vaccines are not required

 

Here's how the Yellow Fever Vaccine requirement works.  My husband flew South African Airlines to Johannesburg several times.  The flight is long and they actually have to stop in Senegal to refuel and replace the flight crew.  Due to this stop where travelers to South Africa do not get off the flight, when they are transiting through customs in Johannesburg they are checked for a temperature if they have one they are then required to produce their Yellow Fever Vaccination card which is a State Dept card that shows your required travel vaccination.  It's been awhile since his last trip but he swears they don't ask to see it before he boards the flight here in the US. 

 

 I remembered him showing it the first time he went but like I said it has been a long time since his last time and even longer since the first and I have slept since then.

Edited June 8, 2021 by mauraoel

[ONECRUISER]

39 minutes ago, ArthurUSCG said:

JFC on a pogo stick.

 

Most states have a central medical agency/department that has the records. That is how they are electronically being transmitted so the states can be reimbursed from the federal government for administering the vaccine. This is also how your primary care provider will eventually get the record of you receiving the vaccine. I say eventually because most states are having problems processing the massive increase in work loads compared to normal.

So, eventually there will be 54 or 55 data bases (50 states + territories) that would contain your vaccine status.

Funny thing is like many others I got my Vaccines in a State isn't my Primary Residence. I remember thousands were going to Florida for Tourist Vaccines. Then even though gave them info never made it to my Dr Office 2 miles away. Even the Vaccine Card they gave me had no Personal info on it, had fill it out myself. 

[skywonder]

4 hours ago, Joseph2017China said:

My advice.....Please if you are afraid......and are still hiding......even with a vaccine......stay away, stay home......the rest of us will go on the cruise and you can wait another 2-3 years in hiding

 

SPOT ON!

[Babr]

4 minutes ago, skywonder said:

SPOT ON!

Never mind.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Babr

[not-enough-cruising]

14 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Airlines enforce the requirements of your destination country. For example, we are on an Adventure cruise out of Nassau. My airlines requires that I upload my vax card, my passport, my Bahama health visa, and answer online health screening questions,,, before they allow me to check-in. 

 

The Bahamas requires me to upload my passport, vax card, and pay for COVID health insurance for the duration of our cruise out of the Bahamas. That gets you a Bahamas health visa. 

 

Royal requires me to provide my vax card, passport, Bahama health visa, answer health screening questions on the Royal app, and pass a physical health exam at check-in. 

You do not need to upload a vaccine card to the airlines to fly to Nassau

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

That would be all airlines with service to countries that require vaccines to enter the arrival country.

Of which there are none, currently

[RedIguana]

1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

Florida's law does have an exception for airlines. Not that I have read the entire law but someone did post that section of the law that gives airlines an exception.

381.00316 COVID-19 vaccine documentation.— 1122 (1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include 1123 any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or 1124 customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 1125 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry 1126 upon, or service from the business operations in this state. 1127 This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from 1128 instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or 1129 controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health. 1130 (2) A governmental entity as defined in s. 768.38 may not 1131 require persons to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19

 

           There is no Airline exemption in this bill other than allowing covid testing for screening. When the EU opens up for vaccinated Americans for non essential travel  the airlines will probably be required to ask if vaccinated and for proof. Also to the best of my knowledge their is no "International Zone" anywhere in the US other than for duty free purposes, and all state and federal laws as applicable apply according to the state the airport is in.

            I would be happy to eat crow if I am wrong on this, I just can't find anything to the contrary

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by RedIguana

[Goodtime Cruizin]

3 hours ago, cruiserking said:

We are not afraid of cruising. We just don't want our 7-day Bahamas cruise to end after three days because unvaccinated people caught COVID and the ship had to return to port. 

 

Jonathan

 

Hmmmmm.... that's is being afraid. Your words, not mine. 

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

As an example......Africa requires a small pox vaccine. If you don't have that immunization record, you do not travel to Africa.

 

Since we are in the middle of a global pandemic with Covid, there is already discussion of countries requiring a Covid vaccine to enter their countries. It may not be happening as of today but, with all this talk of vaccine passports needed for International travel, it just may come to fruition. In fact, there just may already be countries that require Covid vaccines to enter.

I think you may have your vaccinations confused.  Africa does not require a small pox vaccination.  Since the US stopped vaccinating from small pox in 1972, there is  massive population that have never had this vaccine.

 

In 2017 our family went to Botswana and Zimbabwe.  Of 11 travelers, only 2 had received smallpox vaccines.

 

Side note- this trip should be on every person's bucket list.

 

EDIT coffee bean, i posted this before I saw your correction above.  apologies

Edited June 8, 2021 by not-enough-cruising

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, ArthurUSCG said:

JFC on a pogo stick.

 

Beautiful. 😂

[cruiserking]

10 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Hmmmmm.... that's is being afraid. Your words, not mine. 

No. It's not being afraid it's being irritated, annoyed, frustrated. We've been vaccinated, we did what is necessary to return to normal life. We also expect to return to normal cruise life and not pay the penalty of having our cruise shortened by irresponsible vacationers. 

 

Jonathan

[not-enough-cruising]

1 minute ago, cruiserking said:

No. It's not being afraid it's being irritated, annoyed, frustrated. We've been vaccinated, we did what is necessary to return to normal life. We also expect to return to normal cruise life and not pay the penalty of having our cruise shortened by irresponsible vacationers. 

 

Jonathan

Not just shortened but necessitating overly regulate onboard experience.

Call me selfish, but that's how I feel. The AMEX will stay in my pocket until this is figured out.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

5 minutes ago, cruiserking said:

No. It's not being afraid it's being irritated, annoyed, frustrated. We've been vaccinated, we did what is necessary to return to normal life. We also expect to return to normal cruise life and not pay the penalty of having our cruise shortened by irresponsible vacationers. 

 

Jonathan

 

Don't get me wrong I do think you have every right to desire to return to a normal life. But cruising & the world just isn't normal yet. Especially when you combine the two. It's still a bit too early. I recognize the industry has to try but it's like squeezing a tub of butter into a small tube. You'll get some in but it's messy as hell. 

[harkinmr]

19 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

381.00316 COVID-19 vaccine documentation.— 1122 (1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include 1123 any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or 1124 customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 1125 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry 1126 upon, or service from the business operations in this state. 1127 This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from 1128 instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or 1129 controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health. 1130 (2) A governmental entity as defined in s. 768.38 may not 1131 require persons to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19

 

           There is no Airline exemption in this bill other than allowing covid testing for screening. When the EU opens up for vaccinated Americans for non essential travel  the airlines will probably be required to ask if vaccinated and for proof. Also to the best of my knowledge their is no "International Zone" anywhere in the US other than for duty free purposes, and all state and federal laws as applicable apply according to the state the airport is in.

            I would be happy to eat crow if I am wrong on this, I just can't find anything to the contrary

 

It would be the airlines that would be requiring the vaccine, if applicable.  Airlines are governed exclusively by federal law.  States have no rights to regulate airline operations.  States can/do have various levels of authority over airports, depending on jurisdiction and ownership.  However, airport operations as far as the TSA and airline operations are the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government.

 

https://iclg.com/practice-areas/aviation-laws-and-regulations/usa

[cruiserking]

5 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Don't get me wrong I do think you have every right to desire to return to a normal life. But cruising & the world just isn't normal yet. Especially when you combine the two. It's still a bit too early. I recognize the industry has to try but it's like squeezing a tub of butter into a small tube. You'll get some in but it's messy as hell. 

Of course. But, I like our odds much better with a fully vaccinated cruise as  opposed to a partially vaccinated one. 

 

Jonathan

Edited June 8, 2021 by cruiserking

[harkinmr]

12 minutes ago, cruiserking said:

No. It's not being afraid it's being irritated, annoyed, frustrated. We've been vaccinated, we did what is necessary to return to normal life. We also expect to return to normal cruise life and not pay the penalty of having our cruise shortened by irresponsible vacationers. 

 

Jonathan

It's a losing battle Jonathan.  No matter how many times one says it, or in how many ways, there is no ability or desire to understand.  You are banging your head against a wall.

[harkinmr]

12 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Not just shortened but necessitating overly regulate onboard experience.

Call me selfish, but that's how I feel. The AMEX will stay in my pocket until this is figured out.

It's not selfish at all.  Those of us who have been vaccinated did so to protect ourselves, our friends and family, and our communities.  We also did it so that we could return to a normal life.  It is well deserved no matter how much those who have chosen differently would like to otherwise imply.  We should be able to take advantage of the benefits and privileges of being vaccinated, and if those include the ability to cruise on a vaccine only ship, or to be exempted from health protocols necessary to control infection on a "mixed" cruise, then that is the way it should be.  No apologies or excuses are necessary.

[RedIguana]

7 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

It would be the airlines that would be requiring the vaccine, if applicable.  Airlines are governed exclusively by federal law.  States have no rights to regulate airline operations.  States can/do have various levels of authority over airports, depending on jurisdiction and ownership.  However, airport operations as far as the TSA and airline operations are the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government.

The link you provided in no way invalidates the Fl law as written that I could find. . They are a business doing business in Florida as the law is written. I personally do not think the law will stand up to a challenge, but as written the airlines are not exempt.

[harkinmr]

7 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

The link you provided in no way invalidates the Fl law as written that I could find. . They are a business doing business in Florida as the law is written. I personally do not think the law will stand up to a challenge, but as written the airlines are not exempt.

Just because the airlines are not specifically exempt does not mean the law applies to them.  The US Constitution reserves certain rights and powers under law to the federal government, and state law cannot otherwise interfere with those rights and powers.  The Florida legislation includes the standard provision that its terms are not intended to supersede federal law.  The Florida vaccine ban does not apply to the airlines because they are interstate commerce and operate within the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government.

Edited June 8, 2021 by harkinmr

[jrapps]

1 minute ago, harkinmr said:

Just because the airlines are not specifically exempt does not mean the law applies to them.  The US Constitution reserves certain rights and powers under law to the federal government, and state law cannot otherwise interfere with those rights and powers.  The legislation includes the standard provision that its terms are not intended to supersede federal law.  The Florida vaccine ban does not apply to the airlines because they are interstate commerce and operate within the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government.

We should find an online constitutional law class 😁

[RedIguana]

2 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Just because the airlines are not specifically exempt does not mean the law applies to them.  The US Constitution reserves certain rights and powers under law to the federal government, and state law cannot otherwise interfere with those rights and powers.  The legislation includes the standard provision that its terms are not intended to supersede federal law.  The Florida vaccine ban does not apply to the airlines because they are interstate commerce and the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government.

I do believe in the end it will get overturned based on the interstate commerce clause. However, as it stands the legislation does not supersede any federal law (the is no federal law saying a state cannot forbid proof of a vaccination). And you will have to show proof of vaccination to gain entry to, or service from, a business doing business in Florida. I believe cruise will fall under the same commerce clause. I just think the airlines might be the ones challenging the law. 

[harkinmr]

1 minute ago, RedIguana said:

I do believe in the end it will get overturned based on the interstate commerce clause. However, as it stands the legislation does not supersede any federal law (the is no federal law saying a state cannot forbid proof of a vaccination). And you will have to show proof of vaccination to gain entry to, or service from, a business doing business in Florida. I believe cruise will fall under the same commerce clause. I just think the airlines might be the ones challenging the law. 

You are not understanding.  The legislation, by its own terms, and under federal law, cannot regulate the airline industry in this manner.  There is no need for a lawsuit to challenge the state law and the vaccine ban does not otherwise prevent the airlines, or any industry for that matter, from imposing a vaccine mandate to begin with.  The only thing the legislation does is give the state the ability to apply a fine against the business.  Whether those fines can be enforced is an entirely different matter.  The airlines, if challenged by the state, will likely shrug their shoulders and proceed.  There is very little chance that it would ever go beyond that.  There is only so far this kind of grandstanding goes.