Masks

[memoak]

1 hour ago, avonlady6390 said:

It's hard to enforce mask policy for unvaccinated in the restaurant I work in if your not vaccinated you're supposed to wear a mask but I know that some are not complying and not wearing a mask so I'm sure that will be the same onboard the ships.

At least one cruise line sailing out of Florida is asking people to voluntarily show their Vaccination cards.  If not they consider them to be not vaccinated, they have to pay for a covid test and are not allowed in certain bars or the casino etc.

[wowzz]

6 hours ago, fishnchips said:

Hopefully guidance will be changing after the 19th July as mask wearing rules and social distance are being dropped from this date in the UK ...and inside cabins are NOW on sale for some seacations which were NOT on sale previously ....

Maritime regulations are different to regulations on land. 

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, CalLuvsCrusingToo said:

We are fully vaxxed, but if I feel uncomfortable indoors, or around people who

may or may not be vaxxed? I will wear a mask anyway. 

Today was reported with Pfizer, it works about 64% against Delta variant.🤔

That's enough to make me still want to wear a mask.😷

 

A mask stops you transmitting the virus - it is of little use in protecting you, unless you go down the full FPP3 mask route.

[LACruiser88]

6 hours ago, fishnchips said:

Hopefully guidance will be changing after the 19th July as mask wearing rules and social distance are being dropped from this date in the UK ...and inside cabins are NOW on sale for some seacations which were NOT on sale previously ....

Until Covid-19 is in the rear mirror, I would be very leery in booking an inside cabin.  "If" for some unforeseeable reason you have to quarantine on the ship, I would not want to be in an inside cabin!

[coffeebean]

11 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Why don't we just paint a red "V" on their foreheads - a la Nathanial Hawthorne's "The Scarlet Letter" (1850)?  I surely hope you were tongue-in-cheek there.

 

 

I did not think that was a "tongue in cheek" comment. Royal is having vaccinated people wear arm bracelets and they are punching a hole in the seapass cards of un-vaxxed people. It doesn't make sense to give un-vaxxed people arm bracelets because they will just remove them.

[JF - retired RRT]

16 hours ago, wowzz said:

Ah yes, sorry, I had forgotten about that (imho) stupid rule !

How do you think will Princess enforce mask wearing for the 5% ? Surely, on a ship with 3000+ passengers it will be impossible for the crew to know who the 150 are, who should be wearing masks. 

Never mind getting the crew to "enforce" the mask rule.

🤢🤬

[JF - retired RRT]

3 hours ago, AF-1 said:

Princess will most likely have you wear a mask at the port when you check in; there may be baggage handlers and port personnel not vaccinated;  once you board the ship if you feel uncomfortable you can wear a mask;  but it won't be mandatory.  

It's not Princess' decision, it's the port regulations (whatever they may decide).

[JF - retired RRT]

2 hours ago, memoak said:

At least one cruise line sailing out of Florida is asking people to voluntarily show their Vaccination cards.  If not they consider them to be not vaccinated, they have to pay for a covid test and are not allowed in certain bars or the casino etc.

If they kept the unvaxxed out of ALL the bars...there'd be a stampede at the nearest vaccination clinic.😆

[donswife]

7 hours ago, CalLuvsCrusingToo said:

We are fully vaxxed, but if I feel uncomfortable indoors, or around people who

may or may not be vaxxed? I will wear a mask anyway. 

Today was reported with Pfizer, it works about 64% against Delta variant.🤔

That's enough to make me still want to wear a mask.😷

 

It also stated 94% effective against severe illness,  so most who have the pfizer vaccine and still test positive will be asymptomatic or have mild cases.  I still plan to have a mask handy for crowded areas.

[Redwing55]

8 hours ago, CalLuvsCrusingToo said:

We are fully vaxxed, but if I feel uncomfortable indoors, or around people who

may or may not be vaxxed? I will wear a mask anyway. 

Today was reported with Pfizer, it works about 64% against Delta variant.🤔

That's enough to make me still want to wear a mask.😷

 

If you're relying on the mask for that 36%, you might want to make sure that mask is a 95 one at least.  Even then, fit, replacement frequency, and touching all will impact your protection.  I'm not trying to discourage mask wearing, but rather try to put protection to the wearers in perspective.

[HaveDogWillTravel]

10 hours ago, CalLuvsCrusingToo said:

We are fully vaxxed, but if I feel uncomfortable indoors, or around people who

may or may not be vaxxed? I will wear a mask anyway. 

Today was reported with Pfizer, it works about 64% against Delta variant.🤔

That's enough to make me still want to wear a mask.😷

 

That is not true. That was 64% against all covid infections. And that study is an outlier amongst many others that are just as recent. The average behavior is more telling than the outlier.  Google covid and delta variant and find the NYT article. Here’s an excerpt. 
 

As the Delta variant sweeps the world, researchers are tracking how well vaccines protect against it — and getting different answers.

In Britain, researchers reported in May that two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine had an effectiveness of 88 percentprotecting against symptomatic disease from Delta. A June study from Scotland concluded the vaccine was 79 percent effective against the variant. On Saturday, a team of researchers in Canada pegged its effectiveness at 87 percent.

And on Monday, Israel’s Ministry of Health announced that the effectiveness of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 64 percent against all coronavirus infections, down from about 95 percent in May, before the Delta variant began its climb to near-total dominance in Israel.

Although the range of these numbers may seem confusing, vaccine experts say it should be expected because it’s hard for a single study to accurately pinpoint the effectiveness of a vaccine.

“We just have to take everything together as little pieces of a puzzle, and not put too much weight on any one number,” said Natalie Dean, a biostatistician at Emory University.

[mnocket]

14 hours ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

That is not true. That was 64% against all covid infections. And that study is an outlier amongst many others that are just as recent. The average behavior is more telling than the outlier.  Google covid and delta variant and find the NYT article. Here’s an excerpt. 
 

As the Delta variant sweeps the world, researchers are tracking how well vaccines protect against it — and getting different answers.

In Britain, researchers reported in May that two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine had an effectiveness of 88 percentprotecting against symptomatic disease from Delta. A June study from Scotland concluded the vaccine was 79 percent effective against the variant. On Saturday, a team of researchers in Canada pegged its effectiveness at 87 percent.

And on Monday, Israel’s Ministry of Health announced that the effectiveness of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 64 percent against all coronavirus infections, down from about 95 percent in May, before the Delta variant began its climb to near-total dominance in Israel.

Although the range of these numbers may seem confusing, vaccine experts say it should be expected because it’s hard for a single study to accurately pinpoint the effectiveness of a vaccine.

“We just have to take everything together as little pieces of a puzzle, and not put too much weight on any one number,” said Natalie Dean, a biostatistician at Emory University.

Unfortunately, most people seem to misinterpret these figures.  A common misunderstanding is that 95% efficacy means that in the clinical trial, 5% of vaccinated people got COVID. But that's not true; the actual percentage of vaccinated people in the Pfizer (and Moderna) trials who got COVID-19 was about a hundred times less than that: 0.04%. 

[HaveDogWillTravel]

9 hours ago, mnocket said:

Unfortunately, most people seem to misinterpret these figures.  A common misunderstanding is that 95% efficacy means that in the clinical trial, 5% of vaccinated people got COVID. But that's not true; the actual percentage of vaccinated people in the Pfizer (and Moderna) trials who got COVID-19 was about a hundred times less than that: 0.04%. 

Efficacy is a percent decrease mathematical calculation.  95% fewer vaccinated people will get covid than unvaccinated people. 
 

Google this NYT article for an easy to understand explanation. 
What Does 95% Effective Mean? Teaching the Math of Vaccine Efficacy

 

I teach stats at the college and thought this was an excellent lesson. 

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

Efficacy is a percent decrease mathematical calculation.  95% fewer vaccinated people will get covid than unvaccinated people. 
 

Google this NYT article for an easy to understand explanation. 
What Does 95% Effective Mean? Teaching the Math of Vaccine Efficacy

 

I teach stats at the college and thought this was an excellent lesson. 

I remember when you previously posted that article. Thanks again.

 

Unfortunately too many people seem to have a phobia when it comes to math.

 

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

Efficacy is a percent decrease mathematical calculation.  95% fewer vaccinated people will get covid than unvaccinated people. 
 

Google this NYT article for an easy to understand explanation. 
What Does 95% Effective Mean? Teaching the Math of Vaccine Efficacy

 

I teach stats at the college and thought this was an excellent lesson. 

Would it be fair to say that the 64% efficacy I have seen quoted against the delta variant is even worse than it sounds compared to the 95% efficacy since it is a measure of how well it works compared to those not vaccinated and since the delta variant is said to be much more contagious?

 

[wowzz]

19 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Would it be fair to say that the 64% efficacy I have seen quoted against the delta variant is even worse than it sounds compared to the 95% efficacy since it is a measure of how well it works compared to those not vaccinated and since the delta variant is said to be much more contagious?

 

Real world data from PHE, published as a pre-print, demonstrated two doses of COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca are 92% effective against hospitalisation due to the Delta variant and showed no deaths among those vaccinated

[USCcruisecrazy]

6 hours ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

Efficacy is a percent decrease mathematical calculation.  95% fewer vaccinated people will get covid than unvaccinated people. 
 

Google this NYT article for an easy to understand explanation. 
What Does 95% Effective Mean? Teaching the Math of Vaccine Efficacy

 

I teach stats at the college and thought this was an excellent lesson. 

Always enjoyed my Psychological Stats classes but really not a fan of the Mathematical Stats classes...I guess because the Psych ones related to information I gathered, not just numbers.

 

Question though:  doesn't the efficacy rate only speak to the percentage of testing positive, but not really address if one will have symptoms or become ill?  I think the real number should be what percentage of people will be symptomatic.  Just MHO.

[mnocket]

8 hours ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

Efficacy is a percent decrease mathematical calculation.  95% fewer vaccinated people will get covid than unvaccinated people. 
 

Google this NYT article for an easy to understand explanation. 
What Does 95% Effective Mean? Teaching the Math of Vaccine Efficacy

 

I teach stats at the college and thought this was an excellent lesson. 

Scientific "jargon" can easily misinform the public.  What the lay person really cares about is "what are my chances of getting infected/dying?".  Unfortunately, effectiveness data isn't presented to them in this way.  The result is that many people are left with the impression that their chances of contracting the virus/dying are much much higher than science shows. 

[LACruiser88]

This thread has gone off the rails. This forum is not to be used for medical discussions about covid-19....

[Steelers36]

3 hours ago, LACruiser88 said:

This thread has gone off the rails. This forum is not to be used for medical discussions about covid-19....

No axe to grind here, but did you know you can use the Report feature for a thread to send the Mods a note if you think a thread belongs elsewhere, or even if it deserves to be locked or deleted.  Up to them to decide, but you can request that.

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

No axe to grind here, but did you know you can use the Report feature for a thread to send the Mods a note if you think a thread belongs elsewhere, or even if it deserves to be locked or deleted.  Up to them to decide, but you can request that.

Lots of people are self appointed moderators.

[gardenbunny]

On 7/6/2021 at 10:22 AM, phabric said:

On Royal Caribbean’s Freedom ship that just sailed from Florida, vaccinated wore a bracelet and non vaccinated had a hole punched in their cruise card.

And did you see the list of things unvaccinated passengers could NOT do!?!  Crazy.  And it appeared they were not made aware of the actual limitations u til they got on board.  They were told prior to the actual  sailing date there would be restrictions, but I bet some were not expecting that much.  I personally don’t think that was fair if RCI did not disclose the restrictions in full prior to final payment.

[Steelers36]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Lots of people are self appointed moderators.

Yup, but many users may not be aware of all the not-so-obvious features.

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Yup, but many users may not be aware of all the not-so-obvious features.

That is true. And those features are now less obvious than they used to be. How many really know what you see when you click on those three dots?

[Esjung1]

I just updated my Princess APP today and finally got into the health screening.  The first pop-up states that Face Masks are required at the terminal, when moving around the ship, and on shore excursions. Masks may be removed in restaurants and bars while eating or drinking.  Based on this is seems like you would need to wear them at all other times (except eating or drinking). 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Esjung1