Judge Denied CDC request to keep Covid-19 Cruising restrictions.

[WhaleTailFlCruiser]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/judge-denies-cdc-request-covid-19-cruise-restrictions-governmental-power

 

They will become nonbinding guidelines come July 18th. 

 

But I doubt Carnival reverses course and will probably stick with what is working for now. 

[Joe817]

I thought an appeal was immediately filed in this ruling.....which delays this final decision wayyyy into the future. Am I incorrect on this?

 

[lobster1313]

13 minutes ago, Joe817 said:

I thought an appeal was immediately filed in this ruling.....which delays this final decision wayyyy into the future. Am I incorrect on this?

 

Yes. The appeal was filed but the motion to stay the injunction during the appeal was denied.

[firefly333]

6 minutes ago, lobster1313 said:

Yes. The appeal was filed but the motion to stay the injunction during the appeal was denied.

Sweet. Bye bye cdc. They been playing games, waiting it out, doing nothing, offering nothing to base their decisions on. Terrible overreach.

Edited July 8, 2021 by firefly333

[Joe817]

3 minutes ago, lobster1313 said:

Yes. The appeal was filed but the motion to stay the injunction during the appeal was denied.

Damn! I didn't know that. Soooo, is this end of story, case closed, or are they going to kick it up to the Supreme Court of Florida? The case has to go somewhere from here, I'm just not sure WHERE it goes from here. 

[WhaleTailFlCruiser]

1 minute ago, Joe817 said:

Damn! I didn't know that. Soooo, is this end of story, case closed, or are they going to kick it up to the Supreme Court of Florida? The case has to go somewhere from here, I'm just not sure WHERE it goes from here. 

 

No the Appeals court still will rule on this but the CDC's motion for a stay was denied. 

[Joe817]

1 minute ago, WhaleTailFlCruiser said:

 

No the Appeals court still will rule on this but the CDC's motion for a stay was denied. 

Gads. If this is the case, then the next step is kick it up to SCOTUS, I would think, IF CDC wanted to take it to that level.  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I'm outta here. 

[cruisingguy007]

Just now, firefly333 said:

Sweet. Bye bye cdc. 

 

I'm initially inclined to think the same, however, that's contingent upon the lines behaving in a manner conducive to their continued successful operation and avoiding throwing caution to the wind and stepping right back into a steaming pile, or worse, being shutdown again. There is always pressure to cut corners when people feel no one is looking. It could be fatal to the industry if they succumb to this and become complacent. It behooves them (and us with money tied up with them) to consider continuity as a primary goal.     

[WhaleTailFlCruiser]

21 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

I'm initially inclined to think the same, however, that's contingent upon the lines behaving in a manner conducive to their continued successful operation and avoiding throwing caution to the wind and stepping right back into a steaming pile, or worse, being shutdown again. There is always pressure to cut corners when people feel no one is looking. It could be fatal to the industry if they succumb to this and become complacent. It behooves them (and us with money tied up with them) to consider continuity as a primary goal.     

 

This is why I think Carnival sticks with what they are doing now and doesn't cave to the people who are choosing not to get a vaccinations. 

[Elaine5715]

22 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

I'm initially inclined to think the same, however, that's contingent upon the lines behaving in a manner conducive to their continued successful operation and avoiding throwing caution to the wind and stepping right back into a steaming pile, or worse, being shutdown again. There is always pressure to cut corners when people feel no one is looking. It could be fatal to the industry if they succumb to this and become complacent. It behooves them (and us with money tied up with them) to consider continuity as a primary goal.     

Not necessarily. If the Judge is declaring the the CDC's actions were gross overreach of the Government then it may mean that the CDC never had the authority to stop cruiselines from operating. 

[BlerkOne]

31 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Sweet. Bye bye cdc. They been playing games, waiting it out, doing nothing, offering nothing to base their decisions on. Terrible overreach.

I think all that happened was the original judge declined putting his ruling on hold. The appeals court hasn't done anything. Yet. Someone is playing games, but not the CDC. They are doing their job.

[firefly333]

45 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

I'm initially inclined to think the same, however, that's contingent upon the lines behaving in a manner conducive to their continued successful operation and avoiding throwing caution to the wind and stepping right back into a steaming pile, or worse, being shutdown again. There is always pressure to cut corners when people feel no one is looking. It could be fatal to the industry if they succumb to this and become complacent. It behooves them (and us with money tied up with them) to consider continuity as a primary goal.     

If carnival was going to do that the crew wouldnt just tomorrow be allowed to stop wearing masks outside. Crew still has to wear them inside. ..its JULY and I feel for them. 

 

They are being cautious by choosing to only let some kids onboard, they could have gone rcl route and allowed unvaccinated. 

[cruisingguy007]

1 hour ago, Elaine5715 said:

Not necessarily. If the Judge is declaring the the CDC's actions were gross overreach of the Government then it may mean that the CDC never had the authority to stop cruiselines from operating. 

 

It's a fair point but I'm just not sure that's entirely true. Just like airlines have FAA and NTSB and some federal oversight, cruises won't be spared from having any oversight simply because they cruise out of USA waters the majority if time. Cruise lines also don't want to be considered common public transportation as that could have unintended consequences that could be worse.

 

It's a dicey situation to be quite honest. That particular judge is retiring soon and seems to want to "kick the can" and punt to someone else. It's entirely possible that the CDC CSO may end up being a better light-handed option when all is said and done and this works it's way through the process. I very much doubt a zero oversight option is really on the table. If not the CDC then who and what does that look like? That is the real question.   

[Elaine5715]

7 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

It's a fair point but I'm just not sure that's entirely true. Just like airlines have FAA and NTSB and some federal oversight, cruises won't be spared from having any oversight simply because they cruise out of USA waters the majority if time. Cruise lines also don't want to be considered common public transportation as that could have unintended consequences that could be worse.

 

It's a dicey situation to be quite honest. That particular judge is retiring soon and seems to want to "kick the can" and punt to someone else. It's entirely possible that the CDC CSO may end up being a better light-handed option when all is said and done and this works it's way through the process. I very much doubt a zero oversight option is really on the table. If not the CDC then who and what does that look like? That is the real question.   

That is the question.  The cruise lines already operate under strict health regs.  I get confused on who Coast Guard?, Chief usually is around to correct me.  

[TNcruising02]

The cruise lines are perfectly capable of dealing with this like every other industry.  As long as they have a plan in place for people who test positive or need medical care, it's a  nonissue.  It looks like the cruise lines are sailing just fine so far.  Super spreading on a 7 day cruise just isn't going to happen with the way the lines are running or planning to run.  

I am so glad the CDC has lost so far.  We will see what happens with the 11th circuit court, but I am not sure how long that will take.  Cruising will have been going on for quite awhile by then and all of the CDC's March 2020 stats will mean absolutely NOTHING.  Maybe now Disney can move forward too.  The entire situation was overkill and I am so glad that the cruise lines can be responsible for themselves.  Covid is in the US, so a positive person isn't bringing some rare disease back with them.

Edited July 8, 2021 by TNcruising02

[Elaine5715]

7 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

The cruise lines are perfectly capable of dealing with this like every other industry.  As long as they have a plan in place for people who test positive or need medical care, it's a  nonissue.  It looks like the cruise lines are sailing just fine so far.  Super spreading on a 7 day cruise just isn't going to happen with the way the lines are running or planning to run.  

I am so glad the CDC has lost so far.  We will see what happens with the 11th circuit court, but I am not sure how long that will take.  Cruising will have been going on for quite awhile by then and all of the CDC's March 2020 stats will mean absolutely NOTHING.  Maybe now Disney can move forward too.  The entire situation was overkill and I am so glad that the cruise lines can be responsible for themselves.  Covid is in the US, so a positive person isn't bringing some rare disease back with them.

Yep, and using the cruise situation back in March of 2020 as evidence of mismanagement was inappropriate. 

[cruisingguy007]

14 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

That is the question.  The cruise lines already operate under strict health regs.  I get confused on who Coast Guard?, Chief usually is around to correct me.  

 

https://www.transportation.gov/mission/safety/passenger-cruise-ship-information

 

Pandemic protocols don't really fit well into these specific responsibilities list. It really is uncharted waters, so to speak. It seems many believe that it should be a "states rights" issue but that doesn't quite seem logical with regard to national/global events like a pandemic. It could also lead to utter chaos for the industry with different rules in different states. Ironically, the most vocal critics of the CDC CSO are now touting those very same established protocols as the example of cruise lines abilities to operate safely on their own with no oversight. Who'da thunk it? It's a strange circle to be sure.    

[bstel]

I am all for vaccines and cruise lines doing vaccinated cruises, if that is what they see fit to be their best interest, but am against all this CDC over reach during the pandemic.  Glad the courts are finally catching up and correcting this executive branch overreach.  CDC has lost in the courts on their eviction ban and now on cruise bans.  these are two areas they have no authority.

[cruisingguy007]

9 hours ago, WhaleTailFlCruiser said:

 

This is why I think Carnival sticks with what they are doing now and doesn't cave to the people who are choosing not to get a vaccinations. 

 

Hope so. That said, this whole lawsuit brings nothing but instability and uncertainty. It took a given set of reliable facts, expectations and mitigated operating risk (investors like that by the way) and turned it into a topsy-turvy set of questions without answers, jurisdictional uncertainty and operational uncertainty. Ironically, the hurried FL vaccine law did much the same as they arguing in the CDC lawsuit. It's a really strange and bizarre strategy and set of circumstances altogether.   

[Joebucks]

You would think that after being berated and talked down to over a year about science and experts, that 1 of the judges would have found any of that.

[kdr69]

Good ruling

[BlerkOne]

The data says

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/08/health/undervaccinated-clusters-covid-risk/index.html

[Joe817]

10 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The data says

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/08/health/undervaccinated-clusters-covid-risk/index.html

Phew. Very sobering article, Blerk. Thanks for posting. 

[cruisingguy007]

19 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The data says

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/08/health/undervaccinated-clusters-covid-risk/index.html

 

Pat, I'd like to solve the puzzle! 

[Jamesatgsu]

I assume this thread gets closed, but I'm just ready for things to be final, not playing out in these court battles. The most frustrating thing about this case is they could have made it a year ago, when the CDC shut down the industry and strung it along. It took them actually giving regulations that allowed cruising for this to all finally happen.