Judge Denied CDC request to keep Covid-19 Cruising restrictions.

[aquasea]

Win For FL and Win for Cruising! Now Disney and the family cruise lines can get back to family cruising.

[trvlgirlmq]

The cruise lines better stick to vaccinated cruises. With the widespread Delta variant and all the young people refusing vaccines they will be in a world of hurt with an outbreak.  Anyone who says there won't, or can't, be one on ship lives in lala land.

[BlerkOne]

Some seem blind to the fact that cruising HAS begun. The lawsuit is irrelevant. Cruise lines can run their business how they see fit, which is to run cruises SAFELY.

[lobster1313]

6 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Some seem blind to the fact that cruising HAS begun. The lawsuit is irrelevant. Cruise lines can run their business how they see fit, which is to run cruises SAFELY.

If the ruling stands the cruise lines may allow more children but keep or in RCL's case add vaccination requirements. I am just glad I sail on Saturday so the protocols won't be impacted.

[skywonder]

On 7/8/2021 at 2:31 PM, aquasea said:

Win For FL and Win for Cruising! Now Disney and the family cruise lines can get back to family cruising.

Right on!

Edited July 9, 2021 by skywonder

[MrMarc]

On 7/8/2021 at 12:15 AM, cruisingguy007 said:

 

It's a fair point but I'm just not sure that's entirely true. Just like airlines have FAA and NTSB and some federal oversight, cruises won't be spared from having any oversight simply because they cruise out of USA waters the majority if time. Cruise lines also don't want to be considered common public transportation as that could have unintended consequences that could be worse.

 

It's a dicey situation to be quite honest. That particular judge is retiring soon and seems to want to "kick the can" and punt to someone else. It's entirely possible that the CDC CSO may end up being a better light-handed option when all is said and done and this works it's way through the process. I very much doubt a zero oversight option is really on the table. If not the CDC then who and what does that look like? That is the real question.   

If his ruling stands, then the CDC does not have rulemaking authority and no one else gets the authority.  There will be no COVID-19 protocol requirements, only unenforceable recommendations.  My guess is that if they try and create new ones, this Judge will have to approve them.  But that assumes that Florida wins a final ruling and the Appeals Court upholds the Judgement.  Then the stay would become an injunction that would affect all States, until that point it is just Florida.  I will not predict anything, because this Judge's ruling totally caught me off guard.  Especially the part where the CDC does not have the power to issue a CSO, except if he approves it.  I was certain they had the power to do so, but I was wrong.  What I really worry about is not cruising, but the potential unintended consequences of such a ruling on the CDC's authority overall.

[TNcruising02]

I'm not sure if most people actually read the lawsuit, which explains in detail the issues with the CDC's restrictions and requirements. I am sure all of the cruise lines appreciate the effort that the state of Florida went through in order to get cruising started again.  They lost billions, when other industries were permitted to open with precautions and safety measures or never even shut down.  Like the airlines, who were only given recommendations on cleaning and hygiene. 

http://myfloridalegal.com/webfiles.nsf/WF/TDGT-BZVLFJ/$file/Fla+v+HHS+and+CDC+complaint.pdf

 

 

[evandbob]

I wonder who the unvaxxed cruisers will thank for all the extra fees and restrictions they will face on board a ship after this ruling?

 

[need2cruisesoon]

3 minutes ago, evandbob said:

I wonder who the unvaxxed cruisers will thank for all the extra fees and restrictions they will face on board a ship after this ruling?

 

"Like sand in an hour glass, these are the days of our lives"

[evandbob]

1 hour ago, skywonder said:

Right on!

As long as you are willing to pay for extra testing fees and see no problem for on board COVID restrictions for unvaxxed cruisers, sure.

[ontheweb]

8 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

Nah….

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/florida-governor-ron-desantis-cruise-ship-coronavirus-zaandam

And if the same thing happened this July or August there would be no President Trump who Governor DeSantis would listen to to allow the ship to eventually dock.

[TNcruising02]

2 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

And if the same thing happened this July or August there would be no President Trump who Governor DeSantis would listen to to allow the ship to eventually dock.

That was before covid was everywhere in the US.  Why do people keep comparing early 2020 events to now?

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

Why do people hero worship politicians in general?  Heck I don’t hero worship the oft maligned (here)  Dr Fauci who is going against his normal stance by saying a vaccine booster is not the most pressing concern.

Edited July 10, 2021 by TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail

[cruisingguy007]

1 hour ago, MrMarc said:

If his ruling stands, then the CDC does not have rulemaking authority and no one else gets the authority.  There will be no COVID-19 protocol requirements, only unenforceable recommendations.  My guess is that if they try and create new ones, this Judge will have to approve them.  But that assumes that Florida wins a final ruling and the Appeals Court upholds the Judgement.  Then the stay would become an injunction that would affect all States, until that point it is just Florida.  I will not predict anything, because this Judge's ruling totally caught me off guard.  Especially the part where the CDC does not have the power to issue a CSO, except if he approves it.  I was certain they had the power to do so, but I was wrong.  What I really worry about is not cruising, but the potential unintended consequences of such a ruling on the CDC's authority overall.

 

I responded to your post in depth but It looks like it was removed and have no clue why but I don't care to waste my time going into depth again. Suffice to say, this only ends well if it stands as it is IMO. The other two options are not in the cruise lines (or investors) interest. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[MrMarc]

18 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

I responded to your post in depth but It looks like it was removed and have no clue why but I don't care to waste my time going into depth again. Suffice to say, this only ends well if it stands as it is IMO. The other two options are not in the cruise lines (or investors) interest. 

I have had the same thing happen.  Do you mean with or without the CDC CSO?

[SidneyHuff1950]

On 7/8/2021 at 3:54 PM, BlerkOne said:

Some seem blind to the fact that cruising HAS begun. The lawsuit is irrelevant. Cruise lines can run their business how they see fit, which is to run cruises SAFELY.

Except for Disney Cruise Line who is back in the red due to CDC rules which force cruise lines to treat inconsistent test results from tests with high false positive rates as true positives. But who cares about them, right?

[sailingships]

2 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

I other industries were permitted to open with precautions and safety measures or never even shut down.  Like the airlines, who were only given recommendations on cleaning and hygiene. 

http://myfloridalegal.com/webfiles.nsf/WF/TDGT-BZVLFJ/$file/Fla+v+HHS+and+CDC+complaint.pdf

 

 

My cabin was usually very clean when I (use to) cruise  and there was always someone cleaning somewhere.  Im sure they would have made sure everything was spotless and safe. Meanwhile Ive travelled in filthy planes in the past. often with someone else's dirt and rubbish on the tray and seat pocket , and not one of the back seats either. A nice smell just covers up the grime. 

[cruisingguy007]

1 hour ago, MrMarc said:

I have had the same thing happen.  Do you mean with or without the CDC CSO?

 

The CDC CSO as it is, is the best case scenario IMO. The other two options, a state by state free for all or the lines getting reclassified as common passenger transportation, are not good; either of those would not end well.   

Edited July 10, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[ontheweb]

7 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

The CDC CSO as it is, is the best case scenario IMO. The other two options, a state by state free for all or the lines getting reclassified as common passenger transportation, are not good; either of those would not end well.   

With cruises having already started on a limited basis, this lawsuit seems more and more irrelevant as to cruise lines and more about limiting the scope of power of the CDC. And I do agree with you that if the cruise lines had to adhere to different laws state by state instead of federal regulations it would be a real pain in the a$$ for them.

[jimbo5544]

10 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

The CDC CSO as it is, is the best case scenario IMO. The other two options, a state by state free for all or the lines getting reclassified as common passenger transportation, are not good; either of those would not end well.   

If only they worked with the cruise lines instead of against them (which the judge ruled as true).  The CSO will wither up and die as the legal ping pong continues.  By end of third quarter, pandemic declared over the CDC crawls back to their cave.  

[florida eagle]

13 hours ago, evandbob said:

As long as you are willing to pay for extra testing fees and see no problem for on board COVID restrictions for unvaxxed cruisers, sure.

There will be most likely be a drop in the percentage of cruisers who are not as trusting of our government/media as you and others on this forum are. This may increase cruise fares and other costs as cruises may not fill up as much. Those shorter cruises that are good deals also help to keep the longer ones down in prices.

[firefly333]

8 minutes ago, florida eagle said:

There will be most likely be a drop in the percentage of cruisers who are not as trusting of our government/media as you and others on this forum are. This may increase cruise fares and other costs as cruises may not fill up as much. Those shorter cruises that are good deals also help to keep the longer ones down in prices.

I dont know the percentage of cruisers who dont trust govt can drop. I absolutely had no trust in them before covid. Still dont. Every time the govt interferes in my life I'm mad about it. I want the cso gone, i havent been silent.

 

That being said I still have families on my sept cruise without a clue what protocols will be. Carnival wouldnt say beyond the end of august and everyone beyond is left hanging. A mom posted hey which excursions should I bring my 5 and 7 year old to. I dont think carnival does anyone favors to not come out with 90 days at least of protocols. We are well past final payment. Families assume they can all get these exemptions they heard about. They dont even know right now they can only do bubble excursions. Not everyone is on cc and reads what I've read or they would be worried if they have any in their group not vaccinated. 

[BlerkOne]

40 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

If only they worked with the cruise lines instead of against them (which the judge ruled as true).  The CSO will wither up and die as the legal ping pong continues.  By end of third quarter, pandemic declared over the CDC crawls back to their cave.  

They did. No cruise line joined the suit and said they preferred to continue negotiating with the CDC. As a result, I am cruising today, and the lawsuit continues to be a publicity stunt.

 

Meanwhile, covid cases continue to increase in the US with over 20,000 new cases for the 4th consecutive day. The pandemic continues to set the schedule and can't be conspired out of existence.

[jimbo5544]

8 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

They did. No cruise line joined the suit and said they preferred to continue negotiating with the CDC. As a result, I am cruising today, and the lawsuit continues to be a publicity stunt.

 

Meanwhile, covid cases continue to increase in the US with over 20,000 new cases for the 4th consecutive day. The pandemic continues to set the schedule and can't be conspired out of existence.

Yeah sure they did 6 months of silence till Desantis took them to court.  He is the hero in all this.  FACT. As mentioned hundreds of times, the virus will end when it ends.  THE POINT is cruising is cruising, as it should have been months ago.  I agree it is publicity stunt by the lowly CDC.  Missed you by a couple weeks for the drinks…..

Edited July 10, 2021 by jimbo5544

[Joebucks]

16 hours ago, evandbob said:

I wonder who the unvaxxed cruisers will thank for all the extra fees and restrictions they will face on board a ship after this ruling?

 

 

What is the point of this post? Unvaccinated people weren't allowed to sail at all before. Now they at least have the option to. Are you saying this made it worse for them? 

 

Because the fact is, no "science and expert" proof existed to deny any cruisers anything. Bars are back, restaurants are back, shopping is back, events are back. Planes will lose their mask mandate soon. Cruise companies will drop the vaccine requirement eventually, you can write that down. With the intense scrutiny, they just wanted to get back to sea. They will not alienate half of society forever to appease the fearmongers.