Will Princess cruise from Florida with unvaccinated passengers in Jan 2022?

[voljeep]

5 minutes ago, Jemnibabe said:

Excellent post with many good points and now let me add another concern, which is very unpredictable at this point.  Many cruisers are older and have immunsupressed illnesses so they are not necessarily 95% covered for the original covid virus and now, with the spread of the Delta variant, we are only about 64% covered.  And not everyone that is vaccinated is out mixing and mingling with unvaccinated people.  Some people who are vaccinated have fears of the unknown especially since we are hearing more and more about vaccinated people having breakthru cases and dying.  So, I think it is only fair for those of us who might not be the healthiest specimen to be somewhat cautious about sailing with unvaccinated people.  Just my truthful thoughts.

 

Judy from SW Florida

 

good points - and it is up to each individual to decide the risk v reward for sailing with unvaccinated cruisers when you have been vacc'd

 

again - IT IS AN INDIVIDUAL CHOICE ...

[Wishing on a star]

Yes!!!   

We all make choices every day about what we will or can or can not do, to mitigate risks.

 

However, just to mention that this choice, regarding cruising,  could be limited by law, if the CDC prevails.

 

[JF - retired RRT]

19 hours ago, Syracusefan44 said:

The situation in Florida is far from over since Tuesday the US Department of Justice appealed the US District Court Judges decision to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals.  The vast majority of the Court of Appeals decisions are final and binding in the lower courts in the same circuit so Princess will know more when they render a decision.

 

The State of Florida can file the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals decision to the US Supreme Court if they rule in favor of the CDC but the US Supreme Court only hears arguments in fewer than 100 of the 5000 cases appealed to them annually.

And the supremes are out of session until October.

[Iamcruzin]

20 hours ago, maggie777 said:

We have a cruise RT Ft Lauderdale in Jan '22 and will not cruise with unvaccinated passengers. How do you think Princess will handle the situation in Florida?

What is the current vaccine rate in Alabama?  You may be safer on a cruise ship.

[CanuckCurlers]

Cruise companies have run cruises for all kinds of groups in the past so why is it not possible to have cruises for those vaccinated and ones for those who are not. What people seem to think is that being on a ship is the same as being on land. We are all aware of the fact that it isn't. The fact that the virus spread on the Diamond even when people were isolated in their cabins is proof that the ventilation on ships does not stop it's spread and there is no proof that improvements in it are effective. 90% of every ship is indoors. Having unvaccinated on a ship increases the chance that a cruiser, even vaccinated, will have their vacation cut short, will miss ports or even by being exposed to the virus be required to isolate during or after their cruise. What kind of holiday is that? Why can't there be two cruise worlds? With and without. The cruiselines can decide the ratio of each depending on sales.

[voljeep]

2 minutes ago, CanuckCurlers said:

Cruise companies have run cruises for all kinds of groups in the past so why is it not possible to have cruises for those vaccinated and ones for those who are not. What people seem to think is that being on a ship is the same as being on land. We are all aware of the fact that it isn't. The fact that the virus spread on the Diamond even when people were isolated in their cabins is proof that the ventilation on ships does not stop it's spread and there is no proof that improvements in it are effective. 90% of every ship is indoors. Having unvaccinated on a ship increases the chance that a cruiser, even vaccinated, will have their vacation cut short, will miss ports or even by being exposed to the virus be required to isolate during or after their cruise. What kind of holiday is that? Why can't there be two cruise worlds? With and without. The cruiselines can decide the ratio of each depending on sales.

aren't there already cruise lines the ONLY allow vaccinated cruisers ???

[Daniel A]

20 hours ago, beg3yrs said:

Well personally I will cruise with passengers that are not vaccinated but ... it could be that people who insist on fully vaccinated cruises are worried about a repeat of last year's drama if there's an outbreak on board with ships either sitting in a port without being able to disembark or ships sailing almost aimlessly looking for a port that will take them. So much has been learned since then that if there are cases on board, the protocols are in place that those awful scenarios are IMHO highly unlikely. However, there are still those who worry ... it's sad.

My concerns about cruising with unvaccinated passengers include what happens when ports of call on the itinerary refuse entry to their ports because the ship has some documented Covid positive passengers.  I can see strict Covid reporting for most ports of call.  I don't want some unvaccinated passengers ruining my vacation I've spent thousands of my hard earned dollars on.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Daniel A

[CanuckCurlers]

3 minutes ago, voljeep said:

aren't there already cruise lines the ONLY allow vaccinated cruisers ???

At the moment but after the lawsuits ( which I have no way of understanding) who knows?

[voljeep]

9 minutes ago, CanuckCurlers said:

At the moment but after the lawsuits ( which I have no way of understanding) who knows?

'the lawsuits' - just Florida, correct ??

[Daniel A]

4 minutes ago, voljeep said:

'the lawsuits' - just Florida, correct ??

There was also the Alabama Realtor's lawsuit challenging CDC's ability to order a nationwide moratorium on evictions.

[deliver42]

Alaska pulled out, but the judge has repeatedly said Florida, and nowhere else.

[CanuckCurlers]

Don't know the American system but assumed whatever the results would be upheld at all American ports.

[Daniel A]

3 minutes ago, CanuckCurlers said:

Don't know the American system but assumed whatever the results would be upheld at all American ports.

A court would need to put on the record that the injunction is nationwide.  In this instance, the Court expressly stated that the injunction applies to cruise ships in Florida.

[CanuckCurlers]

3 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

A court would need to put on the record that the injunction is nationwide.  In this instance, the Court expressly stated that the injunction applies to cruise ships in Florida.

So Republican states would uphold it and Democratic states would not? Just asking. Could Princess then do Caribbean all vaccinated cruises out of New York?

[Daniel A]

9 minutes ago, CanuckCurlers said:

So Republican states would uphold it and Democratic states would not? Just asking. Could Princess then do Caribbean all vaccinated cruises out of New York?

I think you're conflating two different issues:

 

1.   Florida is suing the CDC saying that the CDC lacks the legal authority to shut down the entire cruise industry.

2.   Florida passed a law prohibiting discrimination based on vaccine status.  So far this is not being challenged in court, but I think they would need to first levy fines against somebody in order for a suit to be filed.

 

The two issues are not connected (although the CDC tried to connect them in their 'Hail Mary' motion to appeal the injunction.)

 

There isn't a Republican/Democrat element to the application of an injunction, it is more a matter of geographical jurisdictional boundaries for different levels of courts.  Yes, Princess can do all vaccinated cruises out of every state but Florida. (And I do hope they end up being permitted in Florida as well.)

[Steelers36]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

My concerns about cruising with unvaccinated passengers include what happens when ports of call on the itinerary refuse entry to their ports because the ship has some documented Covid positive passengers.  I can see strict Covid reporting for most ports of call.  I don't want some unvaccinated passengers ruining my vacation I've spent thousands of my hard earned dollars on.

If a port/country doesn't let unvaccinated off the ship, I don't see a problem.  They stay on the ship and the rest of us go ashore.  I am more than satisfied with Princess' protocols to deal with any unvaccinated pax or positive tests.  I am almost 100% not concerned at all since we are due to cruise in OCT 2022.

[Daniel A]

8 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

If a port/country doesn't let unvaccinated off the ship, I don't see a problem.  They stay on the ship and the rest of us go ashore.  I am more than satisfied with Princess' protocols to deal with any unvaccinated pax or positive tests.  I am almost 100% not concerned at all since we are due to cruise in OCT 2022.

Well, again, my concern is that a port won't permit the ship to even enter the port at all - vaccinated passengers or not.  As you are aware, Canada won't permit any cruise ships to even enter their waters let alone dock - even if all are vaccinated.  Cayman Islands are off limits to cruise ships and I'm sure there are many other jurisdictions that won't permit a cruise ship to enter with even one case of Covid onboard.

[Wishing on a star]

Okay,  the current lawsuit involves FL,  with some other states trying to join in.  But, I am thinking that, for right now, the current lawsuit is FL.  FL - vs - Feds/CDC.

 

I have not heard that there are any lawsuits regarding the current, but appealed, FL law.

Yes, there are those who mention that they have these waiting in the wings....

As mentioned, I think that there are those. (like the cruise lines and cruise passengers) who would have to say that they have been denied their right to operate their business in a way that they see fit to ensure safety, or that they have been denied service, or that constitutional rights have been denied.

I would think that these lawsuits could then come after there is any final ruling on FL - vs - CDC, if FL were to prevail.

 

It is a complex and total mess!!!!!

 

The thing is, once there is a final Federal ruling, then this becomes a Nationwide thing, right???

This would set a Nationwide precedent.

Once there is a Federal final ruling, then this is going to determine federal law.

 

So, yes, FOR NOW, there is nothing to stop cruise lines from sailing from NY.

However, remember, there are hundreds of cruise ships.  Many dozens.   NY would have a very limited port capacity.   Yes, cruise lines can, and might, pull out of FL...  but that would be limited by how many ships should be taken in by other ports in States that would not prohibit the vaccine mandate.

 

Right now, yes, several ships are sailing in the Caribbean!!!

You could fly down and board at a Caribbean Port.

You could sail on one of the few cruises that have done the Test Cruise, or who are simply sailing under their own guidelines.  

 

Some are requiring full vaccination.

There was/is a wonderful itinerary on WindStar on their newly outfitted, stretched,  ships.

They do require vaccination.  (probably in accordance to the country where the cruise embarks?)

Prices are high!  Not anywhere near a one week Princess cruise.

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Wishing on a star

[Wishing on a star]

True, Daniel.

But, note that these countries/ports are not a part of these major cruise itineraries that would depart from the U.S.

 

We do have the new variants and other concerns.

I imagine that under some circumstance a country/port could change their policies instantaneously, like mid-cruise.   But, I don't think that this is a known concern for any departing cruise. 

 

If a cruise line didn't have agreements and alternatives and contingencies...  I wouldn't want to be sailing them anyhow.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Wishing on a star

[Steelers36]

14 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Well, again, my concern is that a port won't permit the ship to even enter the port at all - vaccinated passengers or not.  As you are aware, Canada won't permit any cruise ships to even enter their waters let alone dock - even if all are vaccinated.  Cayman Islands are off limits to cruise ships and I'm sure there are many other jurisdictions that won't permit a cruise ship to enter with even one case of Covid onboard.

Okay, but PCL and other lines are not going to schedule cruises where they cannot go.  The Canada thing will be gone for next summer (set to expire in Winter and we are going to be sufficiently vaccinated before then.  Even though, our Feds have been real stick-in-the-mudders for the land border, I can't foresee the cruise ship ban covering next season.  

[nocl]

19 hours ago, Wishing on a star said:

I don't know how likely it will be that the Court of Appeals will rule in favor of the CDC...  Or that it would rule in favor of FL...  Or that the Supreme Court would take the case on fast-track, if at all.

 

And, there are other possibilities and scenarios.

FL could win appeal, and then cruise lines like Princess could begin their own legal suits.

 

Right now the language on Princess web-site states that they 'intend' to go with the up-to-5% exceptions.  But, that is meaningless language.  As it seems that there are no exceptions being considered.

 

The only thing that we know is that we really DON'T know.

 

About the masks and protocols...  Some cruise lines are outlining protocols for those who do not provide adequate proof of vaccination.   So, this would have minimal effect on vaccinated cruisers.  That would really negate that point about not wanting to 'cruise with unvaccinated passengers' because of how that would effect the enjoyment of the cruise.   I would make a guess that this does have something to do with fear.  

 

This ain't over till it's over!

 

 

The exceptions are probably for the legally required ones such as religious (real ones, not the people that claim it when their religion does not) or where the person has a valid medical condition preventing them from receiving the vaccine.  They are probably keeping the 95% rule as required by the CDC which would allow legal exceptions, but not someone just asking to cruise without being vaccinated.

[Wishing on a star]

From what I understand,  no they are not considering any exceptions.

[Wishing on a star]

About unVax  (or possible Covid positive cruisers) and Ports.

 

This just in...  seems credible

A couple of unvaccinated cruisers on the Celebrity Edge were ushered off the ship at St. Martin. This was because they violated the policy of going ashore outside of the cruise ship sponsored excursion 'bubble'. 

 

 I assume they now will be flying home immediately on their own dme.

Which seems to be how the cruise lines and ports are handling this issue.

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Wishing on a star

[ontheweb]

Just now, nocl said:

The exceptions are probably for the legally required ones such as religious (real ones, not the people that claim it when their religion does not) or where the person has a valid medical condition preventing them from receiving the vaccine.  They are probably keeping the 95% rule as required by the CDC which would allow legal exceptions, but not someone just asking to cruise without being vaccinated.

But how do you determine someone's religious reason is real or not? Freedom of religion is guaranteed by the First Amendment. The government can't say we do not recognize your religion because we think it is a fringe religion or just your personal belief while recognizing other religions because they are organized and more commonplace.

 

That is why when there was a measles outbreak years ago in NY state, the law that was passed requiring measles shots to attend school outlawed all religious exemptions . (Medical exemptions were still allowed allowing those in that category to benefit from the herd immunity that came from everyone else being vaccinated.)

[nocl]

Just now, Wishing on a star said:

From what I understand,  no they are not considering any exceptions.

You would not know unless you actually have the legal or medical status that I indicated and actually went through the appropriate department. Or you actually contacted the cruise line and had a discussion with the appropriate department.

 

As with many other things the cruise line is not going to publish the list of exceptions.  They would be addressed on a case by case basis.

 

Though if you did contact the appropriate department of Princess to have such a discussion I expect that you would find out that yes it is possible for a very specific set of circumstances.  Though they will not volunteer that information. For example I think (from the last time that I looked this up) that there is only one church that would qualify for the religious grounds, Christian Scientist).