Coach passengers testing positive at terminal

[molecrochip]

Sadly, I understand that at least one passenger who had travelled on a shared coach service to Iona yesterday tested positive to both the lateral flow and PCR test at the terminal. This person never boarded the ship and has been offered assistance by the P&O team in line with prepared protocols. I hope this person has a swift recovery.

 

In line with pre-determined protocols, anyone who was on the shared coach is deemed to have been a close contact. Accordingly, with ultimate caution, these individuals have been contacted and asked to disembark immediately, before Iona departed Southampton. This is really sad for them and they will be looked after. Return travel to their homes is being arranged per individual travel group, largely by taxi.

 

For those on board, the science says that the risk of someone catching Covid on the coach, it developing to a transmissible level in that person and then actually being transmitted to other ship passengers - all within 12 hours - is exceptionally close to zero. The risk of catching Covid posed on other passengers if someone did develop Covid to a transmissible level over the coming 3/4 days is however higher hence the ultimate caution.

[wowzz]

That must gave been heart breaking for all concerned. 

I can understand why P&O did it, but it must put people  off  using coach transfers in the future.

[Harry Peterson]

That’s a horrendous situation for all those concerned, but entirely understandable from a P&O standpoint.

 

As wowzz says, this makes coach travel a very risky option.

[molecrochip]

The coach operators are supposed to ask for proof of a negative lateral flow test before boarding but social media comments elsewhere indicate they are not doing this.

 

I'm sure there will be strong words from P&O.

[Pink-belle]

I read on FB one lady and her family who had to be disembarked.  She and her family were in a taxi on their way home having been advised when they were at dinner.  Feel sorry for the passengers but what a logistical nightmare for P&O. 

[Pink-belle]

4 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

The coach operators are supposed to ask for proof of a negative lateral flow test before boarding but social media comments elsewhere indicate they are not doing this.

 

I'm sure there will be strong words from P&O.

The lady that I mentioned in the post above actually stated that they were required to present proof of their LFT that they had uploaded to the NHS site, and had been required to wear masks for their journey.  So it seems that the driver in this case was following procedure. 
Sadly, in the work place, I have heard some “boasting” that they just scan the QR on the home LFT and enter a negative test, not having even done the test!  But surely someone who knows that there will be an administered test at the end of the journey wouldn’t be foolish enough to do that? 

[Harry Peterson]

3 minutes ago, Pink-belle said:

I read on FB one lady and her family who had to be disembarked.  She and her family were in a taxi on their way home having been advised when they were at dinner.  Feel sorry for the passengers but what a logistical nightmare for P&O. 

Absolutely. How absolutely awful. Let’s hope there was no transmission while passengers affected were onboard.

[Pink-belle]

Just now, Harry Peterson said:

Absolutely. How absolutely awful. Let’s hope there was no transmission while passengers affected were onboard.

Yes, that was my first thought, in this case they boarded at 3pm and were not advised until 7pm.  I think this is an example of why we can expect Social distancing and mask wearing to continue onboard for the foreseeable future. 

[molecrochip]

7 minutes ago, Pink-belle said:

I read on FB one lady and her family who had to be disembarked.  She and her family were in a taxi on their way home having been advised when they were at dinner.  Feel sorry for the passengers but what a logistical nightmare for P&O. 

So, P&O have a list of passengers on each coach. They will try cabins, then mobile phone numbers, ship announcements and can even put a message on their system so that using a cruise card / checking in for dinner will flag a need to contact reception.

 

2 minutes ago, Pink-belle said:

The lady that I mentioned in the post above actually stated that they were required to present proof of their LFT that they had uploaded to the NHS site, and had been required to wear masks for their journey.  So it seems that the driver in this case was following procedure. 
Sadly, in the work place, I have heard some “boasting” that they just scan the QR on the home LFT and enter a negative test, not having even done the test!  But surely someone who knows that there will be an administered test at the end of the journey wouldn’t be foolish enough to do that? 

Irresponsible and doesn't deserve to travel if they are trying to fool the system. As much for their own protection as others.

 

1 minute ago, Harry Peterson said:

Absolutely. How absolutely awful. Let’s hope there was no transmission while passengers affected were onboard.

See my earlier post - very small risk.

[Pink-belle]

1 minute ago, molecrochip said:

So, P&O have a list of passengers on each coach. They will try cabins, then mobile phone numbers, ship announcements and can even put a message on their system so that using a cruise card / checking in for dinner will flag a need to contact reception.

 

Irresponsible and doesn't deserve to travel if they are trying to fool the system. As much for their own protection as others.

 

See my earlier post - very small risk.

Cheating the system had nothing to do with travelling Molecrochip, I was just saying we have to test before in person work meetings, but some are quite happy to say they don’t, and basically “lie”. 
so if this company did follow the protocol of checking uploaded test results, I would assume there was a asymptomatic passenger who had a negative LFT test on boarding the coach. Possibly because it was a false negative or the test not completed correctly. Rather than someone having told a lie. 
 

3pm to 7pm is still a longtime to take to track down a pax. Hence my comment on being a logistical nightmare. 

[molecrochip]

17 minutes ago, Pink-belle said:

Cheating the system had nothing to do with travelling Molecrochip, I was just saying we have to test before in person work meetings, but some are quite happy to say they don’t, and basically “lie”. 
so if this company did follow the protocol of checking uploaded test results, I would assume there was a asymptomatic passenger who had a negative LFT test on boarding the coach. Possibly because it was a false negative or the test not completed correctly. Rather than someone having told a lie. 
 

3pm to 7pm is still a longtime to take to track down a pax. Hence my comment on being a logistical nightmare. 

I take your point but I'm not a fan of anyone playing the system in any circumstances.

 

As for it taking a long time. If the first negative passenger boarded at 3pm, lets assume that the positive passenger was alerted at the same time. Secondary testing (rapid PCR test) would then be undertaken. This process takes about an hour. So, 4pm. At that point the terminal staff need to look after the individual concerned and also instigate their positive passenger protocol.

 

I believe this is the first time that a coach passenger has tested positive. It will take time to collate the relevant passenger list for the coach. You then have to contact each family. If you are one of the last families then this could easily be a couple of hours later. Bear in mind that if you received the call, you're probably not immediately going to say yes, You will want to know what happened, why, your risk, the risk to the ship, how you will get home and how you will be compensated. Easily a 15 minute conversation and only a limited number of staff to make said calls.

 

As I said, the risk of being transmissible to other passengers within 12 hours of close contact with a positive case is very very minimal. The speed of response and thus the number of staff P&O deploy on such a situation has to be balanced with that very minimal risk.

 

Additionally, I don't know if anyone else was found to be positive in the same time period as that would pull resources further.

[pete14]

4 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

I take your point but I'm not a fan of anyone playing the system in any circumstances.

 

As for it taking a long time. If the first negative passenger boarded at 3pm, lets assume that the positive passenger was alerted at the same time. Secondary testing (rapid PCR test) would then be undertaken. This process takes about an hour. So, 4pm. At that point the terminal staff need to look after the individual concerned and also instigate their positive passenger protocol.

 

I believe this is the first time that a coach passenger has tested positive. It will take time to collate the relevant passenger list for the coach. You then have to contact each family. If you are one of the last families then this could easily be a couple of hours later. Bear in mind that if you received the call, you're probably not immediately going to say yes, You will want to know what happened, why, your risk, the risk to the ship, how you will get home and how you will be compensated. Easily a 15 minute conversation and only a limited number of staff to make said calls.

 

As I said, the risk of being transmissible to other passengers within 12 hours of close contact with a positive case is very very minimal. The speed of response and thus the number of staff P&O deploy on such a situation has to be balanced with that very minimal risk.

 

Additionally, I don't know if anyone else was found to be positive in the same time period as that would pull resources further.

It seems to me as though P&O have acted with commendable speed and efficiency in this instance and should be applauded. The consequences of not having done so would potentially have seen many more cases on board and ‘plague ship’ media coverage. 

[Angel57]

30 minutes ago, pete14 said:

It seems to me as though P&O have acted with commendable speed and efficiency in this instance and should be applauded. The consequences of not having done so would potentially have seen many more cases on board and ‘plague ship’ media coverage. 

Totally agree. There could have been a much worse outcome if the proper protocols had not been in place to deal with this scenario. 

[Charleyben]

A much worse outcome could still happen.  Who knows what contact those who were disembarked had with other guests.  Social distancing protocols are all well and good but how often do you see them disregarded.

 

in all reality whilst it is possible that the virus can be transmitted between people who have received the vaccines, it is unlikely.  Even if some passengers contracted the virus they are unlikely to develop serious symptoms.

 

The line has to be drawn somewhere and I personally think that in this case P & O have gone over the top.  There are bound to be certain passengers who have picked up the virus and are tested before the markers show to produce a positive test.  Also there are the false negative LFTs to be put into the equation.

 

If I had been sat having dinner and been asked to disembark under these circumstances, I would be apoplectic.

 

 

[molecrochip]

3 minutes ago, Charleyben said:

A much worse outcome could still happen.  Who knows what contact those who were disembarked had with other guests.  Social distancing protocols are all well and good but how often do you see them disregarded.

 

in all reality whilst it is possible that the virus can be transmitted between people who have received the vaccines, it is unlikely.  Even if some passengers contracted the virus they are unlikely to develop serious symptoms.

 

The line has to be drawn somewhere and I personally think that in this case P & O have gone over the top.  There are bound to be certain passengers who have picked up the virus and are tested before the markers show to produce a positive test.  Also there are the false negative LFTs to be put into the equation.

 

If I had been sat having dinner and been asked to disembark under these circumstances, I would be apoplectic.

 

 

I do have massive sympathy for those caught up in this however... at this time, when restarting an industry which has been dead for 15 months, ultimate caution is necessary no matter how much upset it causes.

 

From the point passengers got of the coach they would have been wearing masks and everyone else will have been wearing masks so the transmission risk in the terminal is very low. The problem is that there are reports that mask wearing was not enforced on the coach and hence transmission more likely.

 

As for false negatives, the sensitive of a LFT means that a false negative is very unlikely but a false positive is more likely - this is why a rapid PCR is carried out before a final denial of boarding decision is made.

 

Personally, if I had been told that I've potentially caught Covid and won't know for sure until day 3 or 4, I'd rather be at home so I can recuperate and get any assistance required rather than be on board ship. Equally the only other option for P&O was to quarantine people for the first half of their cruise. Except this isn't an option as the UK restart rules dictate that the ship doesn't leave port with passengers in isolation (boarding crew are fine to be in quarantine).

[Fossie13]

Molecrochip that sounds like a nightmare.I am on the 10th dec flight to Barbados to cruise on Azura.

If what you say is correct then if anyone failing a lateral test at Barbados then the whole filght of 200 plus would be repatriated.

A logistical nightmare for P&O

[Well boy 91]

Very upsetting for all concerned. I don’t Know the Coach procedures ,but going forward,will all passengers on the bus have to wait until all on board return negative tests,irrespective of their boarding times ?  This would solve the problem of tracing passengers from the coach who have already boarded. As was the situation yesterday,if the reports are correct .

[P&O SUE]

23 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

I do have massive sympathy for those caught up in this however... at this time, when restarting an industry which has been dead for 15 months, ultimate caution is necessary no matter how much upset it causes.

 

From the point passengers got of the coach they would have been wearing masks and everyone else will have been wearing masks so the transmission risk in the terminal is very low. The problem is that there are reports that mask wearing was not enforced on the coach and hence transmission more likely.

 

As for false negatives, the sensitive of a LFT means that a false negative is very unlikely but a false positive is more likely - this is why a rapid PCR is carried out before a final denial of boarding decision is made.

 

Personally, if I had been told that I've potentially caught Covid and won't know for sure until day 3 or 4, I'd rather be at home so I can recuperate and get any assistance required rather than be on board ship. Equally the only other option for P&O was to quarantine people for the first half of their cruise. Except this isn't an option as the UK restart rules dictate that the ship doesn't leave port with passengers in isolation (boarding crew are fine to be in quarantine).

Interesting that last sentence, I didn’t know that. 
 

Awful for the people involved, gutting to have the negative test then after relaxing and getting onboard having to leave 😢

Edited August 15, 2021 by P&O SUE

[molecrochip]

2 minutes ago, Well boy 91 said:

Very upsetting for all concerned. I don’t Know the Coach procedures ,but going forward,will all passengers on the bus have to wait until all on board return negative tests,irrespective of their boarding times ?  This would solve the problem of tracing passengers from the coach who have already boarded. As was the situation yesterday,if the reports are correct .

I think the approach taken by P&O may have been different if mask wearing had been enforced on the coach. This appears to have contributed to the issue.

 

3 minutes ago, Fossie13 said:

Molecrochip that sounds like a nightmare.I am on the 10th dec flight to Barbados to cruise on Azura.

If what you say is correct then if anyone failing a lateral test at Barbados then the whole filght of 200 plus would be repatriated.

A logistical nightmare for P&O

I'm expecting, but can't confirm, some type of lateral flow test at the airport before flying.

[Pink-belle]

16 minutes ago, Well boy 91 said:

Very upsetting for all concerned. I don’t Know the Coach procedures ,but going forward,will all passengers on the bus have to wait until all on board return negative tests,irrespective of their boarding times ?  This would solve the problem of tracing passengers from the coach who have already boarded. As was the situation yesterday,if the reports are correct .

I think that sounds very sensible.  Treat the coach of passengers as a travelling party, until all have had negative LFT’s at the port.  So all tests results to be back before boarding. 

[Dermotsgirl]

I can see the sense of a coach group being kept together until all of them were confirmed negative.

 

What happened yesterday is all part of cruising in the Covid era. If people want to cruise, they will need to be aware of all the risks. Unfortunately this is part of ‘living with it’ 

[Dermotsgirl]

24 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

I think the approach taken by P&O may have been different if mask wearing had been enforced on the coach. This appears to have contributed to the issue.

 

It’s such an easy thing to do, to wear a mask to protect those around us.

 

I know some people are genuinely exempt - but, as everyone on the coach knew they’d have to wear a mask on the cruise, nobody had any reason not to wear a mask on the coach. 
 

Not wearing a mask when you are in public enclosed spaces   is rather selfish, and it looks like it has had consequences on this occasion 

[Windsurfboy]

Cruising under covid is about taking a calculated risk. It is now obvious that going by cruise line coach adds to this risk . Benefit if your late cruise line is responsible which removes a different risk.  If you go independently on a coach or other public transport,   P&O will not know if someone on same coach or train caught covid, but on other hand if it's late it's your fault. 

 

Ideally if you can afford it , travel on your own and if a long distance away stay over nigh

[ace2542]

3 hours ago, molecrochip said:

For those on board, the science says that the risk of someone catching Covid on the coach, it developing to a transmissible level in that person and then actually being transmitted to other ship passengers - all within 12 hours - is exceptionally close to zero. The risk of catching Covid posed on other passengers if someone did develop Covid to a transmissible level over the coming 3/4 days is however higher hence the ultimate caution.

Unless the person tested positive from the coach was positive when they got onboard the coach? In that case everyone will be infected after 12 hours. If a cruise ship coach is going to be a spreading event I am trying imagine how bad the football supporters coaches will be with the amount of things that happen on them.

[Dermotsgirl]

1 hour ago, Charleyben said:

A much worse outcome could still happen.  Who knows what contact those who were disembarked had with other guests.  Social distancing protocols are all well and good but how often do you see them disregarded.

 

in all reality whilst it is possible that the virus can be transmitted between people who have received the vaccines, it is unlikely.  Even if some passengers contracted the virus they are unlikely to develop serious symptoms.

 

The line has to be drawn somewhere and I personally think that in this case P & O have gone over the top.  There are bound to be certain passengers who have picked up the virus and are tested before the markers show to produce a positive test.  Also there are the false negative LFTs to be put into the equation.

 

If I had been sat having dinner and been asked to disembark under these circumstances, I would be apoplectic.

 

 

Your post confuses me.

 

On the one hand you’ve acknowledged the potential for virus transmission, yet on the other hand you say it’s over the top to have removed the people from the ship who potentially could be at risk inadvertently spreading the virus.