Celebrity requiring all passengers 12+ to show proof of vaccine in defiance of FL Law?

[Babr]

1 minute ago, canderson said:

If in play (which is the question on the rable), yes - exactly.  Doesn't require too much imagination to know what kind of chocolate mess would ensue if the test was positive and the passenger declined.  I expect that's covered somewhere under the same Ts&Cs whether the test is a regularly scheduled one for unvax'd pax or one that comes up for other reasons.

Testing positive requires quarantine. From what I’ve seen so far, that means being confined to quarters, maybe in your cabin but most likely in one equipped for that purpose. 
 

In terms of the HIPAA discussion, I was thinking of someone who seeks a test as a result of experiencing symptoms.

 

But refusing to cooperate with protocols, which could include testing, means being confined to quarters until you can be disembarked at the nearest port with no refund for unused days and no financial assistance for forward travel. Pretty sure that is in Ts&Cs.

[Babr]

12 minutes ago, nocl said:

The one time I used a clinic on ship they gave me a detailed statement, including ICD 10 codes to provide to my insurance company. 

Yes, that is what I meant. If they don’t give it to you without being asked, it could be  difficult to track it down after you return home.

[CHEZMARYLOU]

We have 20 cruises with celebrity and have been required to complete a health questioner on almost all of them in order to be able to sail. How is showing proof of vaccine different?

I think I've responded enough to this thread. Back to my book. Have a great cruise everyone.

[mayleeman]

Ships are required to report cases of a number of diseases, including covid. You have no HIPAA rights that overrule disclosures to public health authorities of such diseases  on a ship wishing to port in the US.

 

Embark on a ship? You either consent or will be deemed to have consented to any disclosure required by law, including by CDC  regulation.

 

Done here, too.

Edited August 22, 2021 by mayleeman

[terrydtx]

9 hours ago, _Rick_ said:

I am so tired of seeing these discussions on this board.

Then why do you read them?

[LGW59]

1 minute ago, terrydtx said:

Then why do you read them?

He earlier said he likes click bait 

[terrydtx]

12 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

He earlier said he likes click bait 

I guess I fell for the Troll, lol

[cruise kitty]

10 hours ago, dkjretired said:

Disagree, see what happens if they deny boarding to someone with a legitimate service dog.

If they can't provide the service dog's vaccination proof, you bet they can 😉

 

[nocl]

3 hours ago, canderson said:

When operating out of a US port?  Counterpoint: The gambling rules in Malta and Liberia are different, too, but the lines can't open the casinos until outside of U.S. waters.

Not sure if that would impact it or not. For example ADA did not apply to cruise lines until there was a supreme court ruling, but even after the ruling it does not all apply, only reasonable accommodation. 

 

If a cruise line clinic did financial transactions through a US clearing house (to bill insurance for example) then HIPAA might apply.  However, I believe that the clinics bill directly to the passenger and do not file for insurance, instead giving that paperwork that would be needed to fill for insurance  directly to the passenger.

 

As the HHS lists it the privacy rule  "This Rule set national standards for the protection of individually identifiable health information by three types of covered entities: health plans, health care clearinghouses, and health care providers who conduct the standard health care transactions electronically"

 

A cruise ship clinic that bills directly does not seem to fit into any of the categories. 

 

[LynnTTT]

On 8/21/2021 at 11:15 AM, PTC DAWG said:

Cruising is not a right. Cruise lines can deny anyone from boarding for any reason. 

  I agree.  There are cruise companies that are not requiring vaccination. Go for them

[LMHSRN]

On 8/21/2021 at 11:14 AM, dkjretired said:

Some of these vaccinations requirements may be in violation of Federal laws. Cruise lines follow ADA as far as service animals, what if someone can’t get the shots for a medical reason and get denied boarding.  Could have another discussion on Hippa.

HIPAA

[LMHSRN]

On 8/21/2021 at 1:31 PM, canderson said:

Just had an odd thought.  HIPPA rules with regard to the ship's infirmary.  What would HIPPA allow them to share, and with whom?

International Waters - HIPAA does not apply.

[LMHSRN]

On 8/21/2021 at 2:11 PM, davekathy said:

No problem!  Hell, we will gladly show our vaccination cards. Celebrity also needs to mandate everyone no matter their age, medical condition(s) or excuse(s) being vaccinated in order to board their ships. 

Amen!

[terrydtx]

Just read that now Royal is requiring all passengers over 12 to show proof of vaccination or no boarding from Florida. They cite the same reasons as Celebrity, the 100% ship vaccination requirements for most ports like Nassau and St Thomas. Previously Royal didn't have a vaccination % requirement because they are much more family oriented. 

 

It is becoming more and more Get Stuck or Stay Home, which is fine with us. We are safer now on a cruise ship than shopping  or eating in a restaurant at home with so many unvaccinated. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by terrydtx

[gbphipps]

On 8/21/2021 at 6:05 PM, Babr said:

I’ve wondered that myself since it seems that even groups I thought unlikely are encouraged to vaccinate. The only thing I could find referred to people who had an allergic reaction to the first vaccine or perhaps people with Guillian-Barre Syndrome. I’d think it is a fairly small group.  Other than that, it is up to the advice of one’s doctor. 

As a survivor of Guillain-Barré syndrome I struggled with whether or not to get vaccinated.  Ultimately I decided a potential recurrence of Guillain-Barre which I survived once was less a threat to my life than covid and I have had 2 shots of Moderna.  Fortunately, it was the right decision for me as I have had no major side effects from the shots.  I feel more comfortable living my life (including cruising) having been fully vaccinated.  When the time comes I will also get a booster shot.

[Babr]

16 minutes ago, gbphipps said:

As a survivor of Guillain-Barré syndrome I struggled with whether or not to get vaccinated.  Ultimately I decided a potential recurrence of Guillain-Barre which I survived once was less a threat to my life than covid and I have had 2 shots of Moderna.  Fortunately, it was the right decision for me as I have had no major side effects from the shots.  I feel more comfortable living my life (including cruising) having been fully vaccinated.  When the time comes I will also get a booster shot.

No doubt it was a difficult decision. Glad you are doing well.

[Gatordad1967]

On 8/21/2021 at 12:32 PM, karl_nj said:

 

Celebrity is a now not just a cruise line, but also a health care provider or a health insurance company?  Who knew!

You don't need to be a heath care provider, or insurance company to violate HIPAA.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Gatordad1967

[canderson]

59 minutes ago, LMHSRN said:

International Waters - HIPAA does not apply.

A few posts late.  Referring to when docked in US ports, especially tests at B2B, but that's all thread water under the bridge now.

[canderson]

14 minutes ago, Gatordad1967 said:

You don't need to be a heath care provider, or insurance company to violate HIPAA.

Quite correct.  Ask any retail manager, for example, regarding HIPAA training for employee health information. Everyone who manages employees just about anywhere has to deal with it.

[Bo1953]

On 8/21/2021 at 11:00 AM, fstuff1 said:

Got this email for my cruise out of Ft Lauderdale this Fri (8/27):

 

"The governments of Antigua, Dominica and the US Virgin Islands, have now advised all passengers ages 12 and older, traveling aboard a cruise ship, must be fully vaccinated in order for the ship to be allowed entry into St. Johns, Roseau, St. Thomas, St. Croix, or St. John.

 

To comply with this requirement, guests ages 12 and older must provide documentation of full vaccination at the terminal as a condition for boarding."

 

 

Celebrity is defying FL law that says you cant make people show vax card!

NCL winning their lawsuit vs that law only applies to them. No other cruise line was part of their lawsuit.

 

so What am i missing?

Or is Celebrity willing to pay the fine?

 

What are you missing? What are you missing?? What are you missing???

 

Are you really asking this question in all seriousness???

 

You are missing the fact that X is enforcing the laws of the countries in which they are docking, as an airline will do from an airport before one boards the plane.

 

What you are missing is the fact that the fines which the state of Florida may or may not enforce YET these international ports can ban X from docking there?

 

Giving up docking ports vs a silly and vindictive state Executive Order/law, ONLY IMO, I laud them for going with the 100% vaccination route as will quite a few others here on CC or not.

 

What you are missing, ONLY IMO, is that X will now not have to try and police adults who may choose to not be vaccinated, from getting off the ship in these ports and possibly losing privileges and fines and etc... or extreme hospitalizations as a result of an un-vaccinated passengers illness, should it be required.

 

What you are missing, ONLY IMO, is that X can fill cabins, quite possibly, with fully vaccinated passengers vs trying to wrangle compliance from adults who are not.

 

What you are missing, ONLY IMO, is that there will be quite a few of us past passengers who support this move regardless of Florida law and feel much better about sailing X, even given the potential of the break through factor.

 

In health and bon voyage

[Bo1953]

On 8/21/2021 at 1:29 PM, Turtles06 said:

Agreed. It’s astonishing how much misinformation about HIPPA is floating around.

Or is it a lack of understanding of HIPPA and what it applies to?

 

In health and bon voyage

[Bo1953]

On 8/21/2021 at 2:11 PM, dkjretired said:

Yes, I guess the lawyers in NY don’t know anything since they have put HIPPA and ADA in their lawsuits.

When suing large entities who supposedly have deep pockets, attorneys will cast as wide a net as possible in order to try and catch something for the clients represented.

 

This does not mean these are valid claims by any means because they are included as part of the summary of suit.

 

In health and bon voyage

[Bo1953]

On 8/21/2021 at 4:10 PM, canderson said:

The cruise lines got caught up in a much larger issue for the State of Florida.  It's rare that legislators don't screw up with the 'law of unintended consequences', but yes, this is another example.

 

The objective was to prevent FLA cities from enacting just the sort of protocols that NYC put into place in the last week.  At least Florida's citizens don't have to worry about showing a vax card before entering a restaurant.

.... or hospital, as it would be presumed 'unvaccinated' at this time.

 

In health and bon voyage

[graphicguy]

To be succinct...

 

-this has nothing to do with either ADA nor HIPPA...neither is in play on this.

-Celebrity doesn't demand anything regarding Vaccine status.  If you don't provide it, that's up to you.  But, everyone over 12 years old has to be vaccinated to board.  Everyone over 2 years old has to show a negative COVID test result to board.  Don't want to provide it?  Can't provide it?  Lost it? Lied about it?  Faked it?  Didn't do it?  You can't board.

-Regarding FL's "place" in all of this...NCL got their injection to allow them to require Vaccine status proof.  FL has a world of trouble over and above all of this regarding COVID.  My guess is this will pass into the "remember when the Governor tried......?" and it will never become a distant memory.  I think for optics, FL said they would appeal.  To my knowledge, they have yet to do so.  I'm not in FL so I don't know if they have or haven't, however. 

[mayleeman]

1 hour ago, Bo1953 said:

What are you missing? What are you missing?? What are you missing???

 

Are you really asking this question in all seriousness???

 

My wife and I really hope to meet you one of these days!! I'd pretend to buy you a drink for this post alone! (but you'd be AI, so it's the thought that counts)