NEW CDC CRUISE GUIDELINES /SENIORS WIYH UNDER LYING MEDICAL CONDITIONS

[Pamster]

On 8/22/2021 at 3:26 PM, Retired Educator said:

Heads up for oxygen users…
Had I not caught that we would have paid the final amount and arrived at the pier with all the required documentation, ready for the nose swab before boarding (yes, you are required to have the negative 72 hour results in hand but they will also do a check pier side) only to be told “SORRY, no oxygen users allowed”.

 

Dian

Where have you seen that Princess will do testing pier side for vaccinated passengers?  Everything I've read has said that they will not in rather absolute sounding language.

[abqmommyof4]

6 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

 

I think these posts go right to the heart of the issue of Florida v CDC lawsuit.  People will accept guidance and advice about whether or not to cruise, but ultimately it is up to the individual whether or not to follow the advice.  Big brother shouldn't be dictating our options.  I want to get advice from my own doctor, not be dictated to by bureaucrats in Atlanta.

We still plan  to  cruise.   I'm  adult  capable  of making  decisions  that are   in my best interest,   several years ago I had major  surgery  less than a month before  the  cruise , my  surgeon  said  it was the best  way  to relax and  recoup.

[Daniel A]

5 minutes ago, Pamster said:

 

Starting in September those who are 8 months from their first dose can start getting boosters.

Can you cite a source for that?  I don't think the FDA has approved boosters for anyone except immune compromised individuals.

[cruzsnooze]

3 hours ago, billco said:

Does your vaccination card now list three vaccinations? 

YES because all 3 were at CVS

My friend got a second card because their first and second shot were not at a CVS

I know proof of some vaccinations are required for travel to several places already. I had to get yellow fever vaccines for my Amazon trip and bring proof. I don't see this as any different. Children have to show proof of their routine vaccines before starting school yet nobody screams it's against my freedom? I wonder how many of these freedom to choose people have taken a flu, shingles, tetnus, polio, Pneumonia, MMR vaccines? 

  Without a vaccine it's your freedom to stay home so those of us who choose to be as safe as possible can cruise and go out doing our normal activities. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by cruzsnooze

[Pamster]

22 hours ago, ontheweb said:

It would be funny except the WHO president is serious about this. No booster shots in the USA will NOT add a single shot in any other country.

 

It reminds me of a Doonesbury cartoon I saw once making fun of American parents who told their children to finish everything on their plate because there were children starving in China. The cartoon had a Chinese parent telling her child to finish everything on her plate because there were children starving in West Virginia.

My parents told me that as a kid - I told them to ship my food to the country where the children were starving.... Once, I told them that...  🙂 

[Pamster]

21 hours ago, Kay S said:

Maybe it was in use.  Maybe she had other issues that required hospitalization.  Who knows.

Hmm - not really sure that hospital ships are staffed for 24 hour care of a patient on a ventilator - which requires specially trained nurses, respiratory therapists, and physicians.  Medications to sedate the patient are required.  They may be able to do it overnight to get a patient to a location where they can be safely removed from the ship, but certainly not long term.  

 

Belize was probably the appropriate place to disembark her for care.

[AZjohn]

4 hours ago, billco said:

Does your vaccination card now list three vaccinations? 

I'm not who you asked but, my wife got her booster last week and they did add the 3rd dose on her original card. I think there is one or two more spaces for additional vaccines on the original card also.

[PrincessLuver]

On 8/22/2021 at 4:08 PM, marden1970 said:

Hi Dian,  my DH is also on an oxygen concentrator. I did see the news about it extending until the end of the year.  We also have a Hawaiian cruise scheduled but not leaving until the end of March 2022.  However our final payment is due in the middle of December; I won't be making it unless I can get something in writing saying that those with oxygen can sail in 2022.  I'll be super disappointed if we can't go but that's life.  He's more important to me than any cruise.

 

Are there other cruise lines that are not being as restrictive in regards to oxygen concentrators as Princess and would still allow you and your spouse the enjoyment of cruising?

[1965]

Nini what a really nice post. ❤ 

[Pamster]

We are 75 and 85 and are not without underlying conditions.  We will have had a booster by the time of our October 30, 2021 cruise.  At this point I think that boosted and tested on an essentially fully vaccinated ship is safer than just about anywhere else except our apartment.  

 

We drive to the port, so no flying.  We don't participate in much on the ship, just sit in an out of the way spot and read.  We're club class so dining will most likely be no line, and not crowded.  We don't get off the ship, so port days there won't be any crowds.  And we'll be wearing our masks.

 

At this point, looks like the lady on the Carnival ship was before testing and masking onboard.  So even though she was fully vaccinated, she could have picked it up traveling to the port or in Texas.  However, if there seem to be additional break outs on ships since the testing and masking, that would give me pause.

 

Having said that, I won't guarantee that I won't still cancel it depending on world events.   I canceled our cruise last March 3 days before embarkation because that's when the first ship wasn't allowed back in San Francisco.  That cruise was subsequently canceled on embarkation day as all the passengers were waiting in the terminal.  

 

Right now I'm still in the hopes of a cruise in the near future, despite the CDC recommendations. 

 

 

[marden1970]

25 minutes ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

Are there other cruise lines that are not being as restrictive in regards to oxygen concentrators as Princess and would still allow you and your spouse the enjoyment of cruising?

Hi, I've not yet looked into that; I'm hoping that in a few months they will remove that restriction.  We prefer Princess because we can cruise out of San Fran with no flying ( we take Amtrak).  Much easier for him.  I do thank you for your repsonse.  Safe Crusing!

[Ombud]

On 8/22/2021 at 3:26 PM, Retired Educator said:

Heads up for oxygen users…
This is not meant to discount anyone’s prior comments, just a simple fact.

We were booked on the Grand Princess Hawaiian cruise from L A on 12/20/21.  Our final payment was due on 9/21/21.  I thought it smart to re-read through all the changes Princess is implementing for the health and safety of their passengers and crew.  It is an impressive amount of work and I am very pleased with the things they have put in place, although it will change the overall experience seasoned cruisers might be expecting.

One thing caught my attention…passengers who use OXYGEN (even concentrators) WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO BOARD THE SHIP‼️  Had I not caught that we would have paid the final amount and arrived at the pier with all the required documentation, ready for the nose swab before boarding (yes, you are required to have the negative 72 hour results in hand but they will also do a check pier side) only to be told “SORRY, no oxygen users allowed”.

if any of you rely on oxygen be sure to read or call Princess for information.  The original notice said for cruises through 10/31/21 but when I called Friday they said it has been extended for all cruises departing through 12/31/21.

Enjoy your cruises, wherever, whenever.  Have fun and stay safe.

Dian

If you completed the health questionnaire on the MC App you would not have been cleared. Hopefully everyone can access that before their final payment is due

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Ombud

[MamaFej]

2 hours ago, JF - retired RRT said:

For sure, but I'm willing to bet they're not as sophisticated a ventilator as is used in hospital ICUs. Most likely, the ship ventilators simply blow air into the airway at a pressure that's not as high as hospital vents. and without the fancy additions of things like high level O2 and PEEP (positive end expiratory pressure) and more. The simple vents. can do a limited job for a limited time. That's what they're designed for, but I wouldn't want to have to put my life on the line for one for more than a day or 2.

Sort of like a temporary (donut) spare tire that's meant to help you get to a place where it can be replaced with a proper full sized tire, but isn't meant for any significant distance or time?

[nocl]

2 hours ago, JF - retired RRT said:

For sure, but I'm willing to bet they're not as sophisticated a ventilator as is used in hospital ICUs. Most likely, the ship ventilators simply blow air into the airway at a pressure that's not as high as hospital vents. and without the fancy additions of things like high level O2 and PEEP (positive end expiratory pressure) and more. The simple vents. can do a limited job for a limited time. That's what they're designed for, but I wouldn't want to have to put my life on the line for one for more than a day or 2.

Back before COVID the many ships had the kind of ventilators that you mentioned.  Some were even manual.  But the CDC guidelines require the cruise lines to meet the same requirements as an acute care facility for COVID.  That means ICU caliber ventilators for the care of COVID patients under CSO protocols for sailing out of the US.

[JF - retired RRT]

6 minutes ago, nocl said:

Back before COVID the many ships had the kind of ventilators that you mentioned.  Some were even manual.  But the CDC guidelines require the cruise lines to meet the same requirements as an acute care facility for COVID.  That means ICU caliber ventilators for the care of COVID patients under CSO protocols for sailing out of the US.

Interesting. Hopefully, the nurses/doctors on board will know how to use them properly...because they sure rely on the Respiratory Therapists on land. At least at the hospitals where I worked.

[nocl]

2 minutes ago, JF - retired RRT said:

Interesting. Hopefully, the nurses/doctors on board will know how to use them properly...because they sure rely on the Respiratory Therapists on land. At least at the hospitals where I worked.

Well the guidelines, which refers to the same requirements/manual as for setting up COVID treatment facilities also discuss training, so one would think that they should have training for operation of the required equipment.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by nocl

[Ombud]

On 8/22/2021 at 4:40 PM, Ride-The-Waves said:

Everybody has some form of underlying condition.  

Not really. CDC does not consider over 60 a 'condition' unless there is also some medical issue

[Pamster]

On 8/23/2021 at 2:05 PM, nocl said:

Actually part of the COVID protocols for cruise ships sailing from the US is the requirement for those cruise ships be equipped to treat Covid including having one or more ventilators on board.

Where can I read those protocols?  I’m curious about how they’re written. 

[nocl]

33 minutes ago, Pamster said:

Where can I read those protocols?  I’m curious about how they’re written. 

When I used the term protocols I am referring to the set of documents generated by the CDC for safe crew exchange, port negotiations, test cruises, and restricted cruises (those done under the CSO).  Those documents describe a number of requirements that cruise lines need to meet (testing, PPE, lab supplies, crew quarantine procedures, etc)

 

 

You need to go to the CDC web site.  Look in the documents for restricted cruises (basically the cruises that occur under the CSO).  In that document there is a section about medical that states that indicates that the medical center should be set up in accordance with another document (one that was put together by HHS as a reference for setting up different COVID care facilities, including acute care. Do not have the name on hand but it is in the CDC document. 

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by nocl

[Pamster]

55 minutes ago, nocl said:

When I used the term protocols I am referring to the set of documents generated by the CDC for safe crew exchange, port negotiations, test cruises, and restricted cruises (those done under the CSO).  Those documents describe a number of requirements that cruise lines need to meet (testing, PPE, lab supplies, crew quarantine procedures, etc)

 

 

You need to go to the CDC web site.  Look in the documents for restricted cruises (basically the cruises that occur under the CSO).  In that document there is a section about medical that states that indicates that the medical center should be set up in accordance with another document (one that was put together by HHS as a reference for setting up different COVID care facilities, including acute care. Do not have the name on hand but it is in the CDC document. 

 

Well that took some digging around but I did find the document about setting up Alternate Care Sites. But I there are 3 levels and I couldn’t figure out which level the CDC was saying needed to be set up. This has peaked my interest though. May need to investigate further. 
 

Thanks for the info. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Pamster

[nocl]

22 minutes ago, Pamster said:

Well that took some digging around but I did find the document about setting up Alternate Care Sites. But I there are 3 levels and I couldn’t figure out which level the CDC was saying needed to be set up. This has peaked my interest though. May need to investigate further. 
 

Thanks for the info. 

It would be acute care.

 

It is unfortunate that we do not have the actual protocols submitted by each cruise line to get their cruise certificate, only the CDC side.

[caribill]

10 hours ago, Pamster said:

 

 

The other thing is that even testing at the pier won't pick up the infections of those who acquire it in route - which is probably the biggest risk.  The unfortunate woman on the Carnival cruise was tested on the 4th day of the cruise - that is most likely wouldn't have shown up at the pier, either, if it was from travel.

 

It would have shown up based on what was in the Houston paper:

 

"Carnival confirmed the death on Tuesday, though the cruise line said Tackett was already symptomatic and did not disclose that fact when she boarded on July 31, an explanation accepted by the Galveston County health authority."

 

[caribill]

10 hours ago, Pamster said:

Where have you seen that Princess will do testing pier side for vaccinated passengers?  Everything I've read has said that they will not in rather absolute sounding language.

 

It is only in the UK for the "seacation" cruises from Southampton.

[mcrcruiser]

We are booked B2B  Dec 3 & 10th ,2022  on Discovery Princess. We are hoping that this virus will be arrested  before then  & we all can get back to normal travels 

We believe that the boosters as they  become available will  be the way to stop the spread as long as most of us in the USA are vaccinated & do get the boosters 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by mcrcruiser

[mcrcruiser]

18 minutes ago, Pamster said:

 

Well, as an ex-ICU nurse it's really hard for me to imagine that the medical/nursing staff on a cruise ship has the capability of handling a covid patient on a ventilator.  Even the most experienced hospital staff have difficulty.  And it's more than a matter of training, it's even more a matter of experience, and daily use.

 

I agree, I would love to see what pieces of that toolkit were actually implemented by the cruiselines.  That's a huge expense.

We agree . Although I  do not have a medical back ground , I have been in enough cruise ship medical centers  for bronchitis  inhalation treatments   to know that not all the cruise lines medical teams are equally trained & or educated . in fact once a Columbian doctor  on a ship  misdiagnosed me  & I wound up luckily in a Florida hospital  that cured me  with proper medicines   .I was really very sick then . No cruise ship hires American   doctors & nurse staffs  .Only once is close to the 90 cruises we have been on did I ever meet one female American doctor on a cruise ship

 

 Now I use   a electronic device around my neck that pilots use to keep virus away . This device is called a  "Air Tamer ".Google it & you can buy them from the Texas distributor . I paid $150 best money I ever spent as I no longer get bronchitis attacks anywhere .It is rechargeable using a USB cable that comes with it