11/4 Port Key West changed to Nassau

[Cinerama]

Just received the following email. We were booked on a MSC cruise to Key West and the cruise got cancelled. Booked this cruise and now the port is changed to Nassau. The whole reason for doing the cruise was to go to Key West.

 

Dear Valued Travel Partner,

We look forward to welcoming your clients aboard Celebrity Summit®, for their Caribbean cruise. Before we depart, we have some important information to share regarding their itinerary. Celebrity Cruises has been working closely with health and government authorities, in each country we sail from, to outline a clear path for cruising with new health and safety measures. As we return to service, we are evaluating all current itineraries and the status of travel conditions around the world. This means some of our sailings will need to be modified.

Specific to your clients future sailing, in order to accommodate pending municipal port regulations our scheduled called to Key West, Florida will be replaced with Nassau, Bahamas. For your convenience, we've included your revised itinerary below.

 

 

Excursions for Key West, Florida booked through Celebrity Cruise Planner, will automatically be refunded to your clients original form of payment. Guests with independent arrangements should contact their tour operators as soon as possible to make needed adjustments. Please note, families touring with unvaccinated children may only go ashore when participating in a Celebrity Cruises Shore Excursion.

We apologize for any inconvenience these changes may cause. We look forward to welcoming your clients aboard soon for an amazing Celebrity Cruises vacation.

Sincerely,
Celebrity Cruises

 

 

[Jeremiah1212]

With the legal circumstances surrounding cruise ships and Key West, I would not recommend planning on a cruise for the sole purpose of KW for quite some time. 

[lola2013]

I booked Equinox for the 1/3/2022 cruise specifically to visit Key West.  This past weekend, I decided not to count on that happening and switched to Reflection on 1/19/2022.  Since the news changes daily about ships being able to stop in Key West, it was too iffy to count on that stop.  I'm glad now that I made the switch!

[tunaman2011]

Greetings

 

The city of Key West and the state of Florida are in a "disagreement" as to cruise ships coming into Key West harbor.  The two parties have yet to reach a settlement.  In addition, while the city believes it has the right to control the Mallory Square dock and the Outer Mole Dock (Navy Pier) the center dock is privately owned.  If the city tries to stop the owners from using that dock then the city might well be libel for the revenue losses (dockage fees) that the company suffers.

 

In the future the only dock for cruise ships might be the private center dock limiting the port to one ship per day.  There would then be a "disagreement" amongst the cruise lines as to who gets the berth on any given date.

 

This could get very messy before the final outcome is known.  You cannot be sure when and/or if any particular cruise will stop in Key West until this is settled.

 

Good Sailing

Tom

 

[Cinerama]

15 minutes ago, tunaman2011 said:

Greetings

 

The city of Key West and the state of Florida are in a "disagreement" as to cruise ships coming into Key West harbor.  The two parties have yet to reach a settlement.  In addition, while the city believes it has the right to control the Mallory Square dock and the Outer Mole Dock (Navy Pier) the center dock is privately owned.  If the city tries to stop the owners from using that dock then the city might well be libel for the revenue losses (dockage fees) that the company suffers.

 

In the future the only dock for cruise ships might be the private center dock limiting the port to one ship per day.  There would then be a "disagreement" amongst the cruise lines as to who gets the berth on any given date.

 

This could get very messy before the final outcome is known.  You cannot be sure when and/or if any particular cruise will stop in Key West until this is settled.

 

Good Sailing

Tom

 

 

Thanks for the info Tom. Do you have a link where I can see this?

 

 

[PTC DAWG]

I would never recommend booking a cruise to to go "one place".  Way too many variables.  

[PTC DAWG]

1 minute ago, Cinerama said:

 

Thanks for the info Tom. Do you have a link where I can see this?

 

 

Google is your friend, this has been in limbo for some time.  Key West as a cruise port, that is.  

[Fouremco]

OP, as you live in Florida, why don't you just take a couple of days before or after your cruise and drive down to Key West. We've visited on cruises but we've also driven down once before a cruise and spent a couple of nights there. You could even skip the cruise altogether if Key West was the only reason for taking it.

[marieps]

Especially convenient since she'll already be as far as Miami.  It's 7 hours from her town but half that from POM.

Edited October 12, 2021 by marieps

[tunaman2011]

17 minutes ago, Cinerama said:

 

Thanks for the info Tom. Do you have a link where I can see this?

 

 

Greeting

 

We just returned from a stay there.  This discussion was in a lot of the local publications.  The citizens of Key West are not all on the same page WRT to cruise ships.  There are also many reports on-line.

 

Good Sailing

Tom

[Cinerama]

40 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

OP, as you live in Florida, why don't you just take a couple of days before or after your cruise and drive down to Key West. We've visited on cruises but we've also driven down once before a cruise and spent a couple of nights there. You could even skip the cruise altogether if Key West was the only reason for taking it.

 

My wife is the one that wanted to go to Key West. It's a long drive - 388 miles from our home so, I thought why not take a cruise. MSC had the lowest price but they cancelled the cruise. Celebrity will not refund so we are going. The drive from Miami port to Key West is about 3 and 1/2 hrs. Driving back home about 6/1/2 hours. Sorry too long for me. 

[D C]

2 hours ago, tunaman2011 said:

Greetings

 

The city of Key West and the state of Florida are in a "disagreement" as to cruise ships coming into Key West harbor.  The two parties have yet to reach a settlement.  In addition, while the city believes it has the right to control the Mallory Square dock and the Outer Mole Dock (Navy Pier) the center dock is privately owned.  If the city tries to stop the owners from using that dock then the city might well be libel for the revenue losses (dockage fees) that the company suffers.

 

In the future the only dock for cruise ships might be the private center dock limiting the port to one ship per day.  There would then be a "disagreement" amongst the cruise lines as to who gets the berth on any given date.

 

This could get very messy before the final outcome is known.  You cannot be sure when and/or if any particular cruise will stop in Key West until this is settled.

 

Good Sailing

Tom

 

This is technically incorrect as ships docking in Key West is in no way in violation of any existing law or ordinance in place right now.

 

The people of Key West passed a referendum in Nov 2020 to significantly limit cruise ship traffic.

The legislature/governor enacted a law that prohibits the regulation of marine commerce through a referendum.  Signed July 1, 2021.  

 

As soon as that law was signed, cruise ships were legally permitted in Key West as if the referendum never happened.

 

The Key West City Council then realized that if they unilaterally implement an ordinance restricting cruise ships, it does not run afoul of that July 1st law.  They instructed the city attorney to draft such an ordinance.  https://www.wlrn.org/news/2021-07-13/key-west-commission-tells-staff-to-create-cruise-ship-limits-like-those-approved-by-voters

 

This is where it gets tricky with Pier B being privately owned, and there being a perpetual contract between the Pier B owner and the Ciry of Key West.  It takes an agreement of BOTH parties to end the contract without breach. Under that contract, there is a sharing of port fees that amount to millions of dollars per year.  (ignoring for a moment that Outer Mole is owned by the US Govt which could create other issues).    

 

Once an ordinance is created (if the city can find anyone willing to walk into that hornet's nest) and passed, there will invariably be a lawsuit brought by the owner of Pier B.   In July, city attorney Shawn Smith said, "I think Pier B sues us. I don’t think it’s a threat. I think it’s legitimate. And I think it’ll be for breach of contract and an interstate commerce claim. This will be Duck Tours on steroids."  (the city previously paid out $8 million to settle a claim by Duck Tours.  Seems there was a contract in place with the Conch Train owners that sought to prevent competition.  

 

As for the ordinance drafting, it seems to be stuck in a rut.  Several law firms flat out declined to be involved, and the only attorney willing to help has conflicts of interest that may be detrimental.  Good recent article here: https://keysweekly.com/42/conflicts-of-interest-complicate-key-wests-defense-of-cruise-ship-limits/

 
That being said, the state law and the lack of an ordinance apparently hasn't stopped the city council and mayor from trying to impose those restrictions on the cruise lines.  This is a letter from the CEO of Caribe Nautical to the city commissioners and mayor, outlining the actions taken by the commissioners and mayor against the cruise lines without the support of any apparent legal footing:
keywest.legistar.com/gateway.aspx?M=F&ID=f0895f91-b6ea-4c85-8abf-b3b4d727128f.pdf
Essentially, the city is telling cruise lines that they can't dock unless their ships meet the terms of the invalid November referendum.

 

What happens as a result of the city commissioners and mayor acting in an apparently illegal manner is yet to be determined.  I wouldn't be surprised by a lawsuit from Caribe Nautical or someone else who is financially harmed by the lack of cruise ships. 

 

There have also been recent talks of a "compromise" and "bringing all parties to the table" which is interesting, given that there are no legal barriers to the ships stopping in Key West at this time.  

[1025cruise]

Key West is not currently accepting cruise ships. Combination of them not wanting them, and Covid.

[tunaman2011]

35 minutes ago, D C said:

This is technically incorrect as ships docking in Key West is in no way in violation of any existing law or ordinance in place right now.

 

The people of Key West passed a referendum in Nov 2020 to significantly limit cruise ship traffic.

The legislature/governor enacted a law that prohibits the regulation of marine commerce through a referendum.  Signed July 1, 2021.  

 

As soon as that law was signed, cruise ships were legally permitted in Key West as if the referendum never happened.

 

The Key West City Council then realized that if they unilaterally implement an ordinance restricting cruise ships, it does not run afoul of that July 1st law.  They instructed the city attorney to draft such an ordinance.  https://www.wlrn.org/news/2021-07-13/key-west-commission-tells-staff-to-create-cruise-ship-limits-like-those-approved-by-voters

 

This is where it gets tricky with Pier B being privately owned, and there being a perpetual contract between the Pier B owner and the Ciry of Key West.  It takes an agreement of BOTH parties to end the contract without breach. Under that contract, there is a sharing of port fees that amount to millions of dollars per year.  (ignoring for a moment that Outer Mole is owned by the US Govt which could create other issues).    

 

Once an ordinance is created (if the city can find anyone willing to walk into that hornet's nest) and passed, there will invariably be a lawsuit brought by the owner of Pier B.   In July, city attorney Shawn Smith said, "I think Pier B sues us. I don’t think it’s a threat. I think it’s legitimate. And I think it’ll be for breach of contract and an interstate commerce claim. This will be Duck Tours on steroids."  (the city previously paid out $8 million to settle a claim by Duck Tours.  Seems there was a contract in place with the Conch Train owners that sought to prevent competition.  

 

As for the ordinance drafting, it seems to be stuck in a rut.  Several law firms flat out declined to be involved, and the only attorney willing to help has conflicts of interest that may be detrimental.  Good recent article here: https://keysweekly.com/42/conflicts-of-interest-complicate-key-wests-defense-of-cruise-ship-limits/

 
That being said, the state law and the lack of an ordinance apparently hasn't stopped the city council and mayor from trying to impose those restrictions on the cruise lines.  This is a letter from the CEO of Caribe Nautical to the city commissioners and mayor, outlining the actions taken by the commissioners and mayor against the cruise lines without the support of any apparent legal footing:
keywest.legistar.com/gateway.aspx?M=F&ID=f0895f91-b6ea-4c85-8abf-b3b4d727128f.pdf
Essentially, the city is telling cruise lines that they can't dock unless their ships meet the terms of the invalid November referendum.

 

What happens as a result of the city commissioners and mayor acting in an apparently illegal manner is yet to be determined.  I wouldn't be surprised by a lawsuit from Caribe Nautical or someone else who is financially harmed by the lack of cruise ships. 

 

There have also been recent talks of a "compromise" and "bringing all parties to the table" which is interesting, given that there are no legal barriers to the ships stopping in Key West at this time.  

Ok  I didn't want to get bogged down in that much detail.  You covered it much deeper than I.  Bottom line is a big cluster and lots of unknowns.  We are suppose to be there on a ship in January, but who knows.  We will go back down after Fantasy Fest (too busy then) to visit family and friends.  I have had family there since the mid 1800's.

 

Good Sailing

Tom

[Team Stag]

1 hour ago, Cinerama said:

 

My wife is the one that wanted to go to Key West. It's a long drive - 388 miles from our home so, I thought why not take a cruise. MSC had the lowest price but they cancelled the cruise. Celebrity will not refund so we are going. The drive from Miami port to Key West is about 3 and 1/2 hrs. Driving back home about 6/1/2 hours. Sorry too long for me. 

One thing you could consider - Fort Myers has a ferry that runs to Key West.  You could drive to Ft. Myers, take the ferry to KW & stay a couple days there.  Just an alternate solution to driving. That drive is brutal.

[Cinerama]

Thank you everyone for information and suggestions.

 

For the FT. Myers Ferry:

Leaves at 8am, 3.5 hours to Key West, so 11:30.

Leaves at 6pm, arrives around 9:30. 

Not bad, about $140 each. 

 

Thanks!

[davekathy]

Nassau for Key West, huge bummer! 👎🤢 IMO. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by davekathy

[FLCruiser97]

1 hour ago, tunaman2011 said:

Ok  I didn't want to get bogged down in that much detail.  You covered it much deeper than I.  Bottom line is a big cluster and lots of unknowns.  We are suppose to be there on a ship in January, but who knows.  We will go back down after Fantasy Fest (too busy then) to visit family and friends.  I have had family there since the mid 1800's.

 

Good Sailing

Tom

Tom, so your family are Conch's. Same here. Our family was one of the original 7 families to settle KW. 

We also have a cruise in NOV with a call in KW but it was changed to Bimini. Not sure what to do in Bimini. Never been.

Edited October 12, 2021 by FLCruiser97

[D C]

2 hours ago, tunaman2011 said:

Ok  I didn't want to get bogged down in that much detail.  You covered it much deeper than I.  Bottom line is a big cluster and lots of unknowns.  We are suppose to be there on a ship in January, but who knows.  We will go back down after Fantasy Fest (too busy then) to visit family and friends.  I have had family there since the mid 1800's.

 

Good Sailing

Tom

Understood, but a lot of people seem to be under the impression that cruise ships are not permitted because of last November's referendum. It's really an evolving case where the devil is in the details, and the details get more interesting each day. 

[Cinerama]

I received the following info from the Director of the Key West port:

 

 

Because of the possible regulations that will limited passengers numbers both on ships and getting off ships most ships are not scheduling Key West at this time. The regulations were approved by referendum but then the Governor stepped in and said communities could not impose restrictions by referendums. However I believe ships are not willing at this time to risk their reputation and come into Key West when their passenger numbers go against the passed referendum limitations.

 

 

[Oville]

6 hours ago, Cinerama said:

Thank you everyone for information and suggestions.

 

For the FT. Myers Ferry:

Leaves at 8am, 3.5 hours to Key West, so 11:30.

Leaves at 6pm, arrives around 9:30. 

Not bad, about $140 each. 

 

Thanks!

Of course you could spend a night or two in Key West.  Take your cruise hat off and realize you can spend a few days rather that a few hours in KW.😉 
 

[D C]

24 minutes ago, Cinerama said:

I received the following info from the Director of the Key West port:

 

 

Because of the possible regulations that will limited passengers numbers both on ships and getting off ships most ships are not scheduling Key West at this time. The regulations were approved by referendum but then the Governor stepped in and said communities could not impose restrictions by referendums. However I believe ships are not willing at this time to risk their reputation and come into Key West when their passenger numbers go against the passed referendum limitations.

 

 

If you look at the actions of the mayor and city council commissioners, they're apparently telling cruise lines that they HAVE TO follow the now-irrelevant referendum.  It seems to have little to do with cruise lines wanting to obey what is not an enforceable law.  

[nocl]

50 minutes ago, Cinerama said:

I received the following info from the Director of the Key West port:

 

 

Because of the possible regulations that will limited passengers numbers both on ships and getting off ships most ships are not scheduling Key West at this time. The regulations were approved by referendum but then the Governor stepped in and said communities could not impose restrictions by referendums. However I believe ships are not willing at this time to risk their reputation and come into Key West when their passenger numbers go against the passed referendum limitations.

 

 

The law Florida passed was pretty limited only preventing referendums.  The City is looking at other mechanisms.

 

The major hurdle the city faces is the privately owned Pier B.  The other two docks could be limited by the city without much risk. One approach that the city might take is to limit what docks at the other two docks, but leave Pier B open.  That would cut down both ship traffic and passengers compared to pre-pandemic with only one large ship being able to dock and potentially blocking the other two if a large ship is scheduled in B.

[Cinerama]

Cancelled this cruise, getting future cruise credit.

[Cinerama]

11/4 cruise changed from Key West to Nassau but 11/6 and many others still going to Key West - https://www.celebritycruises.com/itinerary-search?portsOfCall=EYW