Puerto Vallarta

[RuthC]

45 minutes ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

I believe it’s allowed if the ship returns to the same port it started from, with no US stops - like any sightseeing tour. What they CAN’T do is act as a means of transport from one US port to another.

Ah, no.

The PVSA requires non-US flagged ships sailing from and two a US port stop at a foreign port. Either a near or distant foreign port is necessary is determined by the beginning/ending port(s). 

The sightseeing tour boats you reference would be US registered. 

[Horizon chaser 1957]

1 hour ago, RuthC said:

Ah, no.

The PVSA requires non-US flagged ships sailing from and two a US port stop at a foreign port. Either a near or distant foreign port is necessary is determined by the beginning/ending port(s). 

The sightseeing tour boats you reference would be US registered. 

Ah, thank you. I didn’t know that. Come to think of it, it DOES make sense that the daytripper  boats wouldn’t be foreign flagged.🤔

I wonder how they handle cruise ships that were scheduled to stop in Mexico, but were denied entry? As long as any one port allows them entry, it won’t be a problem.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Horizon chaser 1957

[nocl]

4 hours ago, RuthC said:

Ah, no.

The PVSA requires non-US flagged ships sailing from and two a US port stop at a foreign port. Either a near or distant foreign port is necessary is determined by the beginning/ending port(s). 

The sightseeing tour boats you reference would be US registered. 

Not quite.  A foreign registered ship can do a cruise to nowhere, if its crew has US work Visa's, the ship obeys US labor and tax laws, and the US income taxes are paid on the corporate level on such cruises (just as they have to pay US income tax on Alaska Land tours).  None of which are normally complied with.

 

The cruise lines used to do them out of the US, before the CBP made the determination that US work rules would apply to any cruise to nowhere.   Once that happened the cruise lines all stopped cruises to nowhere.

 

If the cruise stops at another US port, then the law requires the stop  at a foreign port before completing the closed loop cruise.

[RuthC]

23 minutes ago, nocl said:

None of which are normally complied with.

Exactly. Which is a nuance I decided not to go into in my initial reply.  

[Greysandy]

We weren’t the only ones embarking today on the Koningsdam that didn’t get our test results in time. There is a whole separate line for people in this position and HAL is doing the test at no charge. They have 6 stations set up and are moving us through pretty quickly. We arrived at noon and are just waiting a few minutes for our results. They didn’t care that we have a 2:20 embarkation time. They’re just trying to get people on the ship. 

[Florida_gal_50]

1 hour ago, Greysandy said:

We weren’t the only ones embarking today on the Koningsdam that didn’t get our test results in time. There is a whole separate line for people in this position and HAL is doing the test at no charge. They have 6 stations set up and are moving us through pretty quickly. We arrived at noon and are just waiting a few minutes for our results. They didn’t care that we have a 2:20 embarkation time. They’re just trying to get people on the ship. 

That’s good that they did that.  I can just imagine the hassle of getting a test done on Christmas Eve or day when most places would be closed or operating with less people.

[PSR]

2 hours ago, Greysandy said:

We weren’t the only ones embarking today on the Koningsdam that didn’t get our test results in time. There is a whole separate line for people in this position and HAL is doing the test at no charge. They have 6 stations set up and are moving us through pretty quickly. We arrived at noon and are just waiting a few minutes for our results. They didn’t care that we have a 2:20 embarkation time. They’re just trying to get people on the ship. 

 

Were they testing just people that didn't get their results in time, or also people who couldn't (or didn't try to) manage to get a test?

[Boatdrill]

On 12/23/2021 at 9:51 AM, Ine said:

I read last week Carnival Panorama was not allowed to dock in Cabo San Lucas. 

That's a relief considering there isn't a cruise ship dock in Cabo San Lucas.   🙂

[Boatdrill]

On 12/23/2021 at 10:54 AM, trixiee said:

Hmm… what do you all think are the odds then of cancellation of the next couple of cruises? 

ZERO.

[Boatdrill]

10 hours ago, Heartgrove said:

We will never know the complete story. Perhaps the number of infected crew and/or passengers last week was higher than the previous cruises. It may have broken the allowed number that authorities had established. 

 

Their port. Their rules.

And their price.  How much is it worth to the cruise lines to allow pax off the ship in PV ? 

Edited December 26, 2021 by Boatdrill

[Heartgrove]

39 minutes ago, Boatdrill said:

And their price.  How much is it worth to the cruise lines to allow pax off the ship in PV ? 

 

And I heard today on a YouTube vlogger's channel that there was one crewmember infected on December 19th aboard the Koningsdam. That swelled to 21 crewmembers by the 23rd.

 

While we were aboard the Koningsdam two weeks ago while tendering in Cabo, crewmembers who had been ashore (not the tender crew)were a bit lax with masks compared to the mandatory compliance while onboard. An officer had to remind them.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Heartgrove

[CruiserBruce]

14 minutes ago, Heartgrove said:

 

And I heard today on a YouTube vlogger's channel that there was one crewmember infected on December 19th aboard the Koningsdam. That swelled to 21 crewmembers by the 23rd.

 

While we were aboard the Koningsdam two weeks ago while tendering in Mazatlan, crewmembers who had been ashore (not the tender crew)were a bit lax with masks compared to the mandatory compliance while onboard. An officer had to remind them.

Tendering in Mazatlan? That is usually a docking location. Do you mean Cabo?

[whogo]

A Washington Post article about six affected cruises gave a favorable report from a Koningdam cruiser who thought Holland America was doing everything to keep them safe.

 

In contrast, a Carnival Freedom cruiser felt she was aboard a petri dish. https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2021/12/25/christmas-cruises-covid/

[Heartgrove]

4 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Tendering in Mazatlan? That is usually a docking location. Do you mean Cabo?

 

Correct! I got in under the wire to edit the port and changed to Cabo San Lucas.

[jakers]

I returned from the Koningsdam today. Everybody needs to back off and get their paranoia under control. 13 crew members tested positive. The positive crew members were taken off the ship by a tender and transferred to the Crown princess which is anchored in the San Diego Bay. The captain said that any passengers that came into contact with the crew members were also tested. No passengers tested positive. The crew members will be allowed to rejoin the ship once they complete quarantine and test negative. The crew members either had mild symptoms or were asymptomatic. Even in Mexico the local authorities have to answer to their citizens and an "abundance of caution" is the only answer that will pacify everybody. This is no time to spread irrational fear or rumors. IMO the captain handled everything properly. Every passenger received a $50 OBC and the bars were open (with limitations) for 1 1/2 hours. Per the captain "the Koningsdam is now sailing Covid free".

 

[Florida_gal_50]

24 minutes ago, jakers said:

I returned from the Koningsdam today. Everybody needs to back off and get their paranoia under control. 13 crew members tested positive. The positive crew members were taken off the ship by a tender and transferred to the Crown princess which is anchored in the San Diego Bay. The captain said that any passengers that came into contact with the crew members were also tested. No passengers tested positive. The crew members will be allowed to rejoin the ship once they complete quarantine and test negative. The crew members either had mild symptoms or were asymptomatic. Even in Mexico the local authorities have to answer to their citizens and an "abundance of caution" is the only answer that will pacify everybody. This is no time to spread irrational fear or rumors. IMO the captain handled everything properly. Every passenger received a $50 OBC and the bars were open (with limitations) for 1 1/2 hours. Per the captain "the Koningsdam is now sailing Covid free".

 

I think the press was having a cow more than anyone on this board.  Thank you for the information.

[Heartgrove]

The crew members were transferred after the Koningsdam docked. They used a tender from the Crown Princess (#TB19) probably to eliminate the need to disinfect one of the Koningsdam's tenders after the transfer.

[cruiserchuck]

57 minutes ago, jakers said:

Per the captain "the Koningsdam is now sailing Covid free".

Given how fast Omicron is spreading, I doubt that any large cruise ship currently sailing with passengers is COVID free. 

[nocl]

2 hours ago, jakers said:

I returned from the Koningsdam today. Everybody needs to back off and get their paranoia under control. 13 crew members tested positive. The positive crew members were taken off the ship by a tender and transferred to the Crown princess which is anchored in the San Diego Bay. The captain said that any passengers that came into contact with the crew members were also tested. No passengers tested positive. The crew members will be allowed to rejoin the ship once they complete quarantine and test negative. The crew members either had mild symptoms or were asymptomatic. Even in Mexico the local authorities have to answer to their citizens and an "abundance of caution" is the only answer that will pacify everybody. This is no time to spread irrational fear or rumors. IMO the captain handled everything properly. Every passenger received a $50 OBC and the bars were open (with limitations) for 1 1/2 hours. Per the captain "the Koningsdam is now sailing Covid free".

 

Of course it would be interesting to see if their are any more positives when the next round of tests are done on the crew (every 7 days).  Odds are that more will turn up in the next full round of tests. They will need to go through 2 weekly rounds of tests without any more positives to have any degree of certainty.

 

Pretty much the same with any cruise ship with Omicron.

Edited December 27, 2021 by nocl

[jakers]

4 minutes ago, nocl said:

Of course it would be interesting to see if their are any more positives when the next round of tests are done on the crew (every 7 days).  Odds are that more will turn up in the next full round of tests. They will need to go through 2 weekly rounds of tests without any more positives to have any degree of certainty.

 

Pretty much the same with any cruise ship with Omicron.

While the entire crew is tested within 7 days, they are not all tested on the same day.

[nocl]

1 hour ago, jakers said:

While the entire crew is tested within 7 days, they are not all tested on the same day.

Never said that they were tested on the same day, only it would be interesting if any other turns up as they are during the next cycle.  Based upon incubation they would need two full rotations of testing (after the last positive) to have some degree of certainty about being clear.

 

 

 

Back when the shutdown started and when there was only crew on board you still had cases on the ships into August.  Clearly there is far more known today with more established crew procedures, including the use of cohorts. 

 

Rather unclear if HAL is using PCR or antigen testing for crew.  Antigen testing sensitivity is less than 50% when detecting asymptomatic cases, compared to PCR.   While not good enough to detect every positive if antigen is being used it would be good enough to determine an idea of how many cases are on board.

 

One would hope that with the actual cases that they are using PCR for crew testing at this point.

 

As far as passenger go, in most cases we will not know for sure, because most are not tested.  Though there are certainly reports from the Royal side of things of people testing after returning home with positive results.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by nocl

[syesmar]

On 12/25/2021 at 12:20 AM, Deep68 said:

Stuck on the cruise ship is certainly dramatizing the situation. We spent a typical  day at sea today and yesterday. 

I’ve seen several misleading headlines about the Koningsdam, e.g., “Stranded at Sea”, “Forced back to San Diego” or “Outbreak sends cruise back to San Diego” when it actually returned as normal on the 26th. The situation aboard Koningsdam wasn’t anything like the multiple ones on RCCL, especially Odyssey or Symphony (multiple ports missed, offerings have been cut way back due to dozens of crew testing positive, according to first-hand reports on the RCCL CC board, see this and  this for examples). HAL seems to be handling their situations well.

 

Glad it was still an enjoyable sailing! Best wishes to all!

Edited December 27, 2021 by syesmar

[AKJonesy]

On 12/25/2021 at 2:32 PM, MartySD said:

These ports kill me. Covid (Delta & Omicron) are all over P.V. and everywhere else on earth. How they think that turning away cruise ships will somehow "protect" their people is ridiculous.

 

They still have long memories of the Diamond Princess.  

[AKJonesy]

15 minutes ago, syesmar said:

I’ve seen several misleading headlines about the Koningsdam, i.e., “Stranded at Sea”, “Forced back to San Diego” or “Outbreak sends cruise back to San Diego” when it actually returned as normal on the 26th. The situation aboard Koningsdam wasn’t anything like the multiple ones on RCCL, especially Odyssey or Symphony (multiple ports missed, offerings have been cut way back due to dozens of crew testing positive, according to first-hand reports on the RCCL CC board, see this and  this for examples). HAL seems to be handling their situations well.

 

Glad it was still an enjoyable sailing! Best wishes to all!

It's the press.  They love to stir the pot for their own benefit...advertising $  😞

[mcrcruiser]

Looking to the future of our cruising   ,starting Dec 3 ,2022 ,we are apprehensive with  the  cruise ships getting cpvid cases .We can 't chance this virus dies to ur ages &  underlying medical conditions .We certainly hope things will change by September  our final paymemt month  ,it is just so uncertain with these new variants popping up . All we can do now is pray for this virus to   loose it's potency   . Ships imo are the worse place to be with a highly contagious virus