Lost Birth Certificate

[sparks1093]

4 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Oh yes, much better to believe what you read from someone on an Internet forum.  

I do tend to give credence to what a government agency posts on their website (although there are also enough government websites that are ambiguous, or down-right wrong and in those cases I try to find the underlying regulation or law and read that). 

[sparks1093]

7 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

The story is sad, and the groom's action is incomprehensible.  It does give readers a snippet of real life behind the scenes at a cruise terminal. 

 

The toughest boarding  denials are the ones that could have been avoided - like cruise passengers not having a passport or their birth certificate. A fair number passengers instead rely (incorrectly) on their own interpretation of the travel ID needed.  They think that just a driver's license, or a Real ID driver's license is all they need.  There isn't a cruise day that doesn't go by that staff has document issues to deal with.  In fact, there is a dedicated team who just works with these passengers helping them deal with initial shock of needing proof of citizenship, accepting that they have to stop arguing that no one told them, and then helping them figure out who back home can help them by finding a copy of their birth certificate.  It's quite the emotional process.  There is joy when the birth certificate copy is electronically sent and accepted, and they embark.  Or, sadness or anger when it doesn't work out and they are denied boarding.  They then have to figure out what to do, where to spend the night, etc.  The worst is when security, or the police need to escort denied passengers out of the terminal at the end of the day.

Sometimes that person will come here and post about their experience, I do recall reading about a gentleman from Texas that showed up with just his REAL ID compliant license thinking that was sufficient. Fortunately for him he was able to have his birth cert faxed to the port. (I also read about a lady that lost her passport en route to the cruise and she was able to have her birth certificate faxed as well). When we go on a cruise there is always someone that knows where our documents are, just in case.

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

The story is sad, and the groom's action is incomprehensible.  It does give readers a snippet of real life behind the scenes at a cruise terminal. 

 

The toughest boarding  denials are the ones that could have been avoided - like cruise passengers not having a passport or their birth certificate. A fair number passengers instead rely (incorrectly) on their own interpretation of the travel ID needed.  They think that just a driver's license, or a Real ID driver's license is all they need.  There isn't a cruise day that doesn't go by that staff has document issues to deal with.  In fact, there is a dedicated team who just works with these passengers helping them deal with initial shock of needing proof of citizenship, accepting that they have to stop arguing that no one told them, and then helping them figure out who back home can help them by finding a copy of their birth certificate.  It's quite the emotional process.  There is joy when the birth certificate copy is electronically sent and accepted, and they embark.  Or, sadness or anger when it doesn't work out and they are denied boarding.  They then have to figure out what to do, where to spend the night, etc.  The worst is when security, or the police need to escort denied passengers out of the terminal at the end of the day.

When DW applied for a passport before our first cruise (Western Mediterranean) she found out that she had the "wrong" birth certificate. Her mother had done cleaning and sent her her hospital birth certificate and unfortunately thrown out her real government issued birth certificate. We had time and she was able to apply for a copy in the township where she was born. But, I bet with the wrong one she would have had a real problem at your terminal. Or would there be some wiggle room with that?

[mjkacmom]

13 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

And some old passports still have unexpired visas in them so the traveler needs to carry both old and new.

I kept my expired passport for a few years until I renewed it.

[Ferry_Watcher]

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

But, I bet with the wrong one she would have had a real problem at your terminal. Or would there be some wiggle room with that?

 

Unfortunately there would not be any wiggle room.  The hospital issued birth certificates are considered commemorative, not official.

 

I think that if the cruise lines were less ambiguous about what documentation is needed on closed loop cruises, it would save a lot of stress and heartbreak.  They should just list in plain words on their website what US passengers need to show as proof of citizenship.  Most people understand that for foreign travel they need a passport. On the flipside,  many get confused about what is needed for the closed loop cruise - they don't understand why proof of citizenship  is required.

 

  I think last summer's Alaska cruises must of set a record for the number of passengers (especially early in the season) who arrived at the pier without a passport or birth certificate.  Many believed that since there was no stop in Canada, they only needed a basic photo ID (just a driver's license).  Passengers even told us their travel agents assured them that no passport or BC was needed since there was no foreign (Canadian) stop.  When passengers asked why they did need proof of citizenship, we would explain that they were on a foreign flagged vessel going into international waters.

[sparks1093]

19 minutes ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

 

Unfortunately there would not be any wiggle room.  The hospital issued birth certificates are considered commemorative, not official.

 

I think that if the cruise lines were less ambiguous about what documentation is needed on closed loop cruises, it would save a lot of stress and heartbreak.  They should just list in plain words on their website what US passengers need to show as proof of citizenship.  Most people understand that for foreign travel they need a passport. On the flipside,  many get confused about what is needed for the closed loop cruise - they don't understand why proof of citizenship  is required.

 

  I think last summer's Alaska cruises must of set a record for the number of passengers (especially early in the season) who arrived at the pier without a passport or birth certificate.  Many believed that since there was no stop in Canada, they only needed a basic photo ID (just a driver's license).  Passengers even told us their travel agents assured them that no passport or BC was needed since there was no foreign (Canadian) stop.  When passengers asked why they did need proof of citizenship, we would explain that they were on a foreign flagged vessel going into international waters.

It would also help if the CBP website gave clear, accurate information. That's the way it started out, then someone (who doesn't seem to have read the regulations) rewrote the page and it's now a mess.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

 

Unfortunately there would not be any wiggle room.  The hospital issued birth certificates are considered commemorative, not official.

 

I think that if the cruise lines were less ambiguous about what documentation is needed on closed loop cruises, it would save a lot of stress and heartbreak.  They should just list in plain words on their website what US passengers need to show as proof of citizenship.  Most people understand that for foreign travel they need a passport. On the flipside,  many get confused about what is needed for the closed loop cruise - they don't understand why proof of citizenship  is required.

 

  I think last summer's Alaska cruises must of set a record for the number of passengers (especially early in the season) who arrived at the pier without a passport or birth certificate.  Many believed that since there was no stop in Canada, they only needed a basic photo ID (just a driver's license).  Passengers even told us their travel agents assured them that no passport or BC was needed since there was no foreign (Canadian) stop.  When passengers asked why they did need proof of citizenship, we would explain that they were on a foreign flagged vessel going into international waters.

Yes, it make sense that they should spell out the regulations without any ambiguity. It's really a shame if passengers made that mistake based on conversations with their TA. And it is probably you at the pier turning them down that gets to feel the brunt of their anger though you are just doing your job.😒

[Capt_BJ]

sidebar comment:

 

When our first was born they came to us in the hospital and asked how many birth certificates we wanted. At first glance this seemed a silly question but then I thought about how we'd tried to find Mrs and mine a lil while back when getting our passports.

 

I asked for FIVE .. they only cost a few dollars each. BTW they are all 'originals' with raised seals etc etc

 

Each kid<2> holds TWO of their own and one for their sibling .... and we still hold 2 for each child.

 

Overkill? YOU BET but having to go thru the b.s. of trying to get Mrs replaced when no original was to be found when there was a last minute cruise requirement change .......

 

prior planning and all that stuff . . . 

 

5 may be too much but ONE is silly ain't it?

 

PASS ON to your kids .......

Edited January 12, 2022 by Capt_BJ

[Ferry_Watcher]

3 hours ago, Capt_BJ said:

Each kid<2> holds TWO of their own and one for their sibling .... and we still hold 2 for each child.

What a great idea!

[eyecantwait]

On 1/10/2022 at 7:41 PM, Ferry_Watcher said:

 

Another crazy story (which staff still talks about) is the bride who was left behind. 

 

A couple married off site on the day of their honeymoon cruise. Apparently the post wedding plans included members of the bridal party (or at least the groomsmen) joining the happy couple on the cruise.  The bride was not a US citizen, did not have a green card, and unfortunately was a citizen of a country that needed a Canadian visa - which she did not have.    Since the bride didn't have the Canadian visa she was denied boarding.  Everyone in the terminal knew what was going on because the bridal party were still in their wedding clothes. What did the groom do?  He went on the cruise without his new bride, but with his buddies.  We were dumbfounded to see the groom check in and walk on to the ship without the bride.   To this day we wonder if that marriage lasted.  

Brave groom!

🙄 my money is on no, the marriage probably didn't last

[Ferry_Watcher]

3 hours ago, eyecantwait said:

Brave groom!

🙄 my money is on no, the marriage probably didn't last

Brave groom?  Leaving your denied boarding bride (still in her wedding dress) and going on the cruise without her?  Doesn't say much about his character, IMO.

Sadly, my money would also be on the marriage not lasting.

[SmoothFlying]

1 hour ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

Brave groom?  Leaving your denied boarding bride (still in her wedding dress) and going on the cruise without her?  Doesn't say much about his character, IMO.

(Rasing hand) I, well,  sorta had the same situation happen to me. While we weren't newlyweds (married twenty years, at this time) I was employed by Delta, 25 years at this time, and trying to fly to 'Lost Wages' (Las Vegas) on employee stand--by, which means IF a seat pops up empty, and YOU are the highest in seniority (by hire date) you GO. They were finishing up boarding a flight and it didn't look like no SBy's were gonna make the flight. So the wife said she was going to the 'powder room'. As I was sitting here, the ticket agent called me to the counter and said, 'Mr. so and so, we have ONE seat available in FIRST class, IF you want it, you HAVE to go down the boarding gangway NOW ! Tey're about to close the door, GO !'  I was shocked ! I stammered, 'But what about my wife, she's not here and won't know where.. He merely said it again, 'IF you want a seat on THIS plane, GO ! I'll tell her what's happened'. Feeling VERY guilty, I picked up my carry on and rushed down the jetway, only to have the greeting F/Attendant say, 'I'm sorry, we miscounted, the flight WAS full, we 've already informed the counter, I'm so sorry'. Ohhhh goodness, I thought to myself, IF my wife's back WHAT will she think, Needless to say when I walked back up, out in the waiting area, THERE she stood, arms CROSSED, head COCKED to one side, a mock grim frown on her face, Sooo, gonna 'ditch' me here and MEET your 'girlfriend' in Las Vegas, huh ??' Believe me, I TRIED to explain, OVER and over WHAT transpired, finally she laughed, saying, I guess you really didn't KNOW what to do'. But for almost a year afterwards, she would re-tell this embarassing situation over and over to friends and family who hadn't heard it. Believe ME if this situation ever happens again, I know WHAT I'll say and do.

 

Mac

[Ferry_Watcher]

@SmoothFlyingwhat a lovely story!  Wishing you two many more happy and fun years together!

[Ferry_Watcher]

Another honeymoon cruise story - pre Covid:  A couple of 20 somethings are brought to my station and I am told that there seems to be a Check-in/manifest problem.  They both had appropriate ID, so I begin the check-in process on the computer to try to figure out what is going on.  While I am doing this I am chatting with them and I find out that it's their honeymoon and that they were just married days ago.  I find his information and I am able to check him in.  But I can't find her in the system.  There are different ways of searching, but it's proving fruitless.

I run his last name again and I get two hits: his information (let's say his last name is Smith); and the second listing of his last name (Smith), and the initials TBD as the first name.  I cross check with the cabin number and it's the bride.  So I click on Smith, TBD and basically that was all the information listed for this passenger. 

TBD is To Be Determined, and that was listed as the bride's first name

She is listed under his last name, but all her ID is in her maiden name

There was no gender checked;

The birthday listed was the same as the groom's,

No contact information (address, phone number, credit card)

NOTHING that would indicate that this booking  was for this lovely young woman standing in front of me.

I am thinking, OMG what are we going to do?  This is their honeymoon, and she isn't on the manifest in any discernable way.  I gather up all the documents and find basically the station manager for the cruise line, explain the situation, and luckily she went to work on it.  She called Miami and after some considerable time got the bride registered/added correctly to the manifest.  They did get to go on their honeymoon cruise.

 

What happened was that it was the groom's responsibility to take care of booking the  cruise.  He basically just put his information into the system, and just added a second guest with just a last name, and no first name, and nothing else.  I don't know what he was thinking  They never knew how close they came to not going, and we never let on how dire it was looking.  Honestly, if it wasn't a honeymoon, and the fact it happened a few years ago (when there was a bit more flexibility), saved the honeymoon cruise.

 

Sometimes I wonder if that marriage survived.  :  )

Edited January 15, 2022 by Ferry_Watcher

[ontheweb]

49 minutes ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

Another honeymoon cruise story - pre Covid:  A couple of 20 somethings are brought to my station and I am told that there seems to be a Check-in/manifest problem.  They both had appropriate ID, so I begin the check-in process on the computer to try to figure out what is going on.  While I am doing this I am chatting with them and I find out that it's their honeymoon and that they were just married days ago.  I find his information and I am able to check him in.  But I can't find her in the system.  There are different ways of searching, but it's proving fruitless.

I run his last name again and I get two hits: his information (let's say his last name is Smith); and the second listing of his last name (Smith), and the initials TBD as the first name.  I cross check with the cabin number and it's the bride.  So I click on Smith, TBD and basically that was all the information listed for this passenger. 

TBD is To Be Determined, and that was listed as the bride's first name

She is listed under his last name, but all her ID is in her maiden name

There was no gender checked;

The birthday listed was the same as the groom's,

No contact information (address, phone number, credit card)

NOTHING that would indicate that this booking  was for this lovely young woman standing in front of me.

I am thinking, OMG what are we going to do?  This is their honeymoon, and she isn't on the manifest in any discernable way.  I gather up all the documents and find basically the station manager for the cruise line, explain the situation, and luckily she went to work on it.  She called Miami and after some considerable time got the bride registered/added correctly to the manifest.  They did get to go on their honeymoon cruise.

 

What happened was that it was the groom's responsibility to take care of booking the  cruise.  He basically just put his information into the system, and just added a second guest with just a last name, and no first name, and nothing else.  I don't know what he was thinking  They never knew how close they came to not going, and we never let on how dire it was looking.  Honestly, if it wasn't a honeymoon, and the fact it happened a few years ago (when there was a bit more flexibility), saved the honeymoon cruise.

 

Sometimes I wonder if that marriage survived.  :  )

You and the station manager were their heroes, and they did not even realize it. A big 👍 for both of you.

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

Brave groom?  Leaving your denied boarding bride (still in her wedding dress) and going on the cruise without her?  Doesn't say much about his character, IMO.

Sadly, my money would also be on the marriage not lasting.

 

Might have been for the best thing for the bride, if as a result the wedding didn't happen.  

[SmoothFlying]

2 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

@SmoothFlyingwhat a lovely story!  Wishing you two many more happy and fun years together!

LOLLLLLLL !! I thank you so much for that! Luckily 'time DOES heal all wounds' and by now she's forgotten the 'incident' (Hopefully !) I know I will NEVER mention it

 

Mac 

[Elaine5715]

On 1/10/2022 at 7:52 PM, sparks1093 said:

That's probably news to the State Department as this is included in their FAQ (emphasis mine):

Yes, in most cases, we will return the old, canceled passport to you. The old passport may be sent separately from your new passport. We recommend keeping your old passport in a safe place as it is considered proof of your U.S. citizenship.

Because you do not want your expired passport stolen.  It can be still used by crooks to steal your identity and do very bad things. 

[Elaine5715]

5 hours ago, SmoothFlying said:

(Rasing hand) I, well,  sorta had the same situation happen to me. While we weren't newlyweds (married twenty years, at this time) I was employed by Delta, 25 years at this time, and trying to fly to 'Lost Wages' (Las Vegas) on employee stand--by, which means IF a seat pops up empty, and YOU are the highest in seniority (by hire date) you GO. They were finishing up boarding a flight and it didn't look like no SBy's were gonna make the flight. So the wife said she was going to the 'powder room'. As I was sitting here, the ticket agent called me to the counter and said, 'Mr. so and so, we have ONE seat available in FIRST class, IF you want it, you HAVE to go down the boarding gangway NOW ! Tey're about to close the door, GO !'  I was shocked ! I stammered, 'But what about my wife, she's not here and won't know where.. He merely said it again, 'IF you want a seat on THIS plane, GO ! I'll tell her what's happened'. Feeling VERY guilty, I picked up my carry on and rushed down the jetway, only to have the greeting F/Attendant say, 'I'm sorry, we miscounted, the flight WAS full, we 've already informed the counter, I'm so sorry'. Ohhhh goodness, I thought to myself, IF my wife's back WHAT will she think, Needless to say when I walked back up, out in the waiting area, THERE she stood, arms CROSSED, head COCKED to one side, a mock grim frown on her face, Sooo, gonna 'ditch' me here and MEET your 'girlfriend' in Las Vegas, huh ??' Believe me, I TRIED to explain, OVER and over WHAT transpired, finally she laughed, saying, I guess you really didn't KNOW what to do'. But for almost a year afterwards, she would re-tell this embarassing situation over and over to friends and family who hadn't heard it. Believe ME if this situation ever happens again, I know WHAT I'll say and do.

 

Mac

I was third on the First Class upgrade list on a Delta at the gate and there was one unclaimed seat.  Ahead of me on the list was a couple and sure enough, they got called up to the desk and told there was one seat in First, did one of them want it?  They both looked at each other for the longest time before the husband, said no, they wanted to sit together.  Yeah for me!

[Ferry_Watcher]

15 hours ago, ldubs said:

Might have been for the best thing for the bride, if as a result the wedding didn't happen

Sadly, he left his bride behind after the wedding ceremony, and went on the cruise with his groomsmen, but without her.  As you remarked, it too bad that she didn't see his true character before they married.

[sparks1093]

13 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Because you do not want your expired passport stolen.  It can be still used by crooks to steal your identity and do very bad things. 

But that isn't what the State Department website says...it says you need to safeguard it because it is still proof of citizenship, it doesn't say that you need to safeguard it to protect your identity (although that is also a good reason to safeguard it as well).

[SmoothFlying]

13 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

I was third on the First Class upgrade list on a Delta at the gate and there was one unclaimed seat.  Ahead of me on the list was a couple and sure enough, they got called up to the desk and told there was one seat in First, did one of them want it?  They both looked at each other for the longest time before the husband, said no, they wanted to sit together.  Yeah for me!

LOL !!! 🙂  Yup, good for YOU !  :)) I remember the wife I were on employee standby to Las Vegas and after they boarded all paying passengers they started the stand by list,  They announced my name and asked if I would come to the podium. Walking up, I handed them our stand by temp passes that's issued to all SBY passengers, the agent grinned and said, 'We have ONE seat in first and one in coach for yall, what do you wanna do ? At this I was getting sixx weeks of vacation a year, she only two, so many times I'd travel alone and sometimes I'd get first, so there was NO hesitation, I told the agent, 'Let her have it' and explained my reason. The agent grinned, like she knew what I'd say because she then handed me the boarding ALREADY printed out with my wife in 1st, me in coach. But my wife gave me the dickens for THAT decision ! Even complaining to the smiling agent, I stood by my decision, she deserved it IF that situation ever happened, and sometimes it did. I have never regretted it either.

Mac

[Elaine5715]

51 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

But that isn't what the State Department website says...it says you need to safeguard it because it is still proof of citizenship, it doesn't say that you need to safeguard it to protect your identity (although that is also a good reason to safeguard it as well).

They should not need to list every reason why.  If they tried, someone would want to argue 

[Sea Hag]

On 1/11/2022 at 4:05 AM, ontheweb said:

When DW applied for a passport before our first cruise (Western Mediterranean) she found out that she had the "wrong" birth certificate. Her mother had done cleaning and sent her her hospital birth certificate and unfortunately thrown out her real government issued birth certificate. We had time and she was able to apply for a copy in the township where she was born. But, I bet with the wrong one she would have had a real problem at your terminal. Or would there be some wiggle room with that?

I also had the "wrong one." I had what I thought was my birth certificate, and that went missing. I'd gone on more than one Mexican Riviera cruise using it. When I tried to get a replacement for it, I hit a brick wall. My parents had never really registered my birth. The state I was born in had no record of my existence. After chasing down many, many blind alleys, I was able to get a passport based on a copy of the census done when I was a small child and notarized statements from my dad and my older brother attesting to the fact that I did, indeed, exist. I think that nowadays the "wrong" one wouldn't work anymore, but it did way back when.

[sparks1093]

1 hour ago, Elaine5715 said:

They should not need to list every reason why.  If they tried, someone would want to argue 

They list the most important reason, that is enough.