Chances of Fuel Surcharges coming up?

[Married90]

We sail Sunday (3/6).   Last time Oil went over $100 a barrel NCL started charging a last minute fuel Surcharge.  If you read the "term and conditions" they reserve the right to anytime oil is above $65/barrel.   While I hope  it will happen before Sunday, what are the chances it will be happening soon.   Fuel is one of their largest expenses each trip and god knows occupancy rates are not keeping them afloat presently....

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, Married90 said:

We sail Sunday (3/6).   Last time Oil went over $100 a barrel NCL started charging a last minute fuel Surcharge.  If you read the "term and conditions" they reserve the right to anytime oil is above $65/barrel.   While I hope  it will happen before Sunday, what are the chances it will be happening soon.   Fuel is one of their largest expenses each trip and god knows occupancy rates are not keeping them afloat presently....

That is not quite correct.  The last time NCL charged a fuel surcharge was in 2007 or so, and oil was over $100/barrel in 2014/2015.  Since 2007, the cruise lines have taken advantage of bunker futures more, to shield them from market volatility.  There is also a lag between crude prices and bunker prices, and with the new IMO fuel regulations, the old HSFO has a smaller market, but one that the cruise lines in particular are placed to take advantage of (they have more scrubbers than other ships), so this fuel, which has seen a 50% increase in price differential to low sulfur fuel just since the start of the year, can shelter their fuel costs as well.  Long story short, unless oil goes above $140, there won't likely be a surcharge, and another outcome of the 2007 surcharge is that it cannot be imposed after final payment.

[Dcoy]

I don’t think any cruise line wants to be the first to start this up again. 

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Dcoy said:

I don’t think any cruise line wants to be the first to start this up again. 

But once one does, unless there is a huge negative reaction, the rest may follow suit.

 

Let us hope no line decides to be the first to try to implement a fuel surcharge.

[BermudaBound2014]

Oil prices are up 40% in the last week. Unless something drastic happens, a surcharge appears inevitable. Looks like NCL is set to $10 per person per day. 

 

Royal Caribbean, Carnival, and Norwegian May Add an Extra Charge - TheStreet

 

[dhanakorn]

I notice this on the recent quotation from my TA. 

 

CRUISE DISCLAIMER The cruise line reserves the right to re-instate a fuel supplement for all guests at up to US $9 per person, per day if the price of light sweet crude oil on the New York Mercantile Exchange (NYMEX) exceeds US$70 per barrel.

 

 

[davencl]

On 3/2/2022 at 9:22 AM, chengkp75 said:

That is not quite correct.  The last time NCL charged a fuel surcharge was in 2007 or so, and oil was over $100/barrel in 2014/2015.  Since 2007, the cruise lines have taken advantage of bunker futures more, to shield them from market volatility.  There is also a lag between crude prices and bunker prices, and with the new IMO fuel regulations, the old HSFO has a smaller market, but one that the cruise lines in particular are placed to take advantage of (they have more scrubbers than other ships), so this fuel, which has seen a 50% increase in price differential to low sulfur fuel just since the start of the year, can shelter their fuel costs as well.  Long story short, unless oil goes above $140, there won't likely be a surcharge, and another outcome of the 2007 surcharge is that it cannot be imposed after final payment.

Thanks for the past history.   It seems the terms and conditions say it could be charged after final payment but glad to hear that is not the case.   Sadly above $140 barrel is in sight.

[At Sea At Peace]

14 minutes ago, davencl said:

Thanks for the past history.   It seems the terms and conditions say it could be charged after final payment but glad to hear that is not the case. 

 

 

Well, there are other views on this first part.

 

https://www.thestreet.com/investing/royal-caribbean-carnival-norwegian-fuel-surcharge-oil

 

14 minutes ago, davencl said:

Sadly above $140 barrel is in sight.

 

 

Also, the barrel is one thing, the bunker prices (depending on what type of fuel the ships use) are rising, as well as the GAP between the two.

 

https://www.seatrade-maritime.com/bunkering/bunker-prices-breaching-1000-tonne-key-ports

 

[Laszlo]

22 minutes ago, davencl said:

Thanks for the past history.   It seems the terms and conditions say it could be charged after final payment but glad to hear that is not the case.   Sadly above $140 barrel is in sight.

 

My bets are on $180-$200 within 60-90 days

[david_sobe]

The article I read today stated the major lines including NCL will charge a $10 per day fuel charge added to your bill.

[casofilia]

I can certainly see it happening more's the pity.   

[davencl]

Just to clarify I'm not basing my thoughts on any news articles but NCL's stated policy from this link:

 

https://www.ncl.com/ca/en/cruise-faq/fuel-supplement

 

Apparently applying this to fully paid fare's may not be legal according to chengkp75. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by davencl

[chengkp75]

11 hours ago, davencl said:

Just to clarify I'm not basing my thoughts on any news articles but NCL's stated policy from this link:

 

https://www.ncl.com/ca/en/cruise-faq/fuel-supplement

 

Apparently applying this to fully paid fare's may not be legal according to chengkp75. 

It could not be applied to fully paid fares, until they changed the terms and conditions to what you've linked.

[fox02554]

On 3/2/2022 at 12:22 PM, chengkp75 said:

another outcome of the 2007 surcharge is that it cannot be imposed after final payment.

https://www.ncl.com/cruise-faq/fuel-supplement?fbclid=IwAR37krh_uTNFeduaBOE9uCx8RtLBfOqLR9gB5XCeOvGmG1gEuZfWj5mP3IE  I'm going to go with the 2022 policy rather then a 15 year old guess. $ 10 X 7 = 70  X 4 = $240  cheaper then filling up hubby's pickup 

Edited March 9, 2022 by fox02554
add photo

[Laszlo]

24 minutes ago, fox02554 said:

https://www.ncl.com/cruise-faq/fuel-supplement?fbclid=IwAR37krh_uTNFeduaBOE9uCx8RtLBfOqLR9gB5XCeOvGmG1gEuZfWj5mP3IE  I'm going to go with the 2022 policy rather then a 15 year old guess. $ 10 X 7 = 70  X 4 = $240  cheaper then filling up hubby's pickup 

Funny you posted that photo, my company makes those pump toppers and others just like it. Last week we had a flurry of activity in sales. Exxon / Mobil, BP, Conoco.... ALL requesting extra digits of 5,6 and 7's to be sent to their dealers. I guess you know where those extra digits are going

[fox02554]

3 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

ALL requesting extra digits of 5,6 and 7's to be sent to their dealers. I guess you know where those extra digits are going

Oh dear Lord do not send us any 6's or 7's 🤣😂

[Jersey42]

This link appears to be the current Terms and Conditions. The wording matches the links to the FAQs posted by others. Not sure if this is a recent change??

 

https://www.ncl.com/about/additional-terms-and-conditions 

 

Guarantee and Rate

Once we have received your deposit or full payment, the cruise rate is secure except in the event of substantial increases in operating costs, tariffs or taxes prior to the sailing date. In such cases, we reserve the right to add a surcharge. If you select an Air/Sea package, additional governmental taxes and customs fees may apply. All assessed government or quasi-government fees and taxes are subject to change without notice at any time, and we reserve the right to add a surcharge for these fees and taxes whether you have a confirmed booking under deposit or have made final payment. All rates and information in this brochure were in effect at time of printing and are subject to change. Norwegian Cruise Line reserves the right to charge a fuel supplement without prior notice should the closing price of West Texas Intermediate Fuel increase above $65 per barrel on the NYMEX (New York Mercantile Exchange Index). In the event a fuel supplement is charged, Norwegian Cruise Line will have sole discretion to apply the supplementary charge to both existing and new bookings, regardless of whether such bookings have been paid in full. Such supplementary charges are not included in the cruise fare. The fuel supplement charge will not exceed $10.00 per passenger per day.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Jersey42

[At Sea At Peace]

18 minutes ago, Jersey42 said:

This link appears to be the current Terms and Conditions. The wording matches the links to the FAQs posted by others. Not sure if this is a recent change??

 

https://www.ncl.com/about/additional-terms-and-conditions 

 

In the event a fuel supplement is charged, Norwegian Cruise Line will have sole discretion to apply the supplementary charge to both existing and new bookings, regardless of whether such bookings have been paid in full. Such supplementary charges are not included in the cruise fare. The fuel supplement charge will not exceed $10.00 per passenger per day.

 

Thanks.  It always is good to read posts that  go right to the source.

 

I wonder, next, if that $10 per passenger per day will be changed on a 'forward basis' soon?

 

It looks like the 'pain at the pump' is more than rooted in GEOpolitical factors so it's likely here to stay for awhile.  The recommendation in the State's is to 'buy an EV" instead.  That's an option for some.  Not for cruise lines with ships.

 

Before I place my order for, when available, a LR-RRS EV, when I go to the EV charging stations on the 1,700 mile trek from So. FL to NH in the Spring (and back in the Fall), where exactly will those EV stations be getting the E to put in my V?  😉

 

[CWMixer]

20 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

Before I place my order for, when available, a LR-RRS EV, when I go to the EV charging stations on the 1,700 mile trek from So. FL to NH in the Spring (and back in the Fall), where exactly will those EV stations be getting the E to put in my V?  

 

[chengkp75]

34 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

Before I place my order for, when available, a LR-RRS EV, when I go to the EV charging stations on the 1,700 mile trek from So. FL to NH in the Spring (and back in the Fall), where exactly will those EV stations be getting the E to put in my V?

From what I've seen, it's not so much where will the electricity come from (and I'm wondering what the chart in the above post means in relation to your post), but how.  I see that Vermont has a moratorium on solar projects because the infrastructure to carry more electrical power isn't there.  As more things go electric, it has to be transmitted somehow, and our grid isn't sufficient to meet additional demand.

[CWMixer]

The chart answers the question "where does the E come from": on a national basis, ~25% is from renewables and hydro, and ~75% from fossil fuels and nuclear.  I don't believe this is widely understood.

And I agree that the larger issue, from what I've read, is grid capacity, which I also believe isn't widely understood.

[njkate]

It wouldn't surprise me, I already see increased air fares in routes I normally fly.

Savannah to Newark back in Oct I paid $486 for two economy tickets.

I need to go up in May and the fare was just over $900, thank goodness points is paying for that flight.

[Middleager]

4 hours ago, fox02554 said:

 cheaper then filling up hubby's pickup

You seem cheerful to talk about your husband's pickup.  Wonder what my wife would say about my pickups.😁

Edited March 9, 2022 by Middleager