What happens when all the current smaller ships are retired with Tampa

[jxtgreek]

Just curious, Tampa cruising has a height limitation for a cruise ship due to the Skyway Bridge.  When the current Paradise and Pride eventually retire (they are over 20 years old), what will Carnival bring to Tampa?  Has Carnival ever said anything?  Tampa is one of my favorite ports.  It will be sad if they stop cruising out of here.

[mondello]

I’d have to think Carnival would have a formula to determine the most cost effective way to continue cruising from Tampa after Paradise. I’ve cruised from Miami, Port Everglades/FLL, Tampa, Galveston, and New Orleans. I’d rather Carnival return to Port Everglades/FLL.

 

Carnival has shown with the rebranding of ships from Costa and the millions spent on Sunshine, Sunrise, and Radiance, they can find a ship for Tampa when needed.

[ray98]

Carnival has to address it at some point.  Tampa is not the only one, others like Jacksonville and Mobile have restrictions.

[Jamman54]

8 minutes ago, ray98 said:

Carnival has to address it at some point.  Tampa is not the only one, others like Jacksonville and Mobile have restrictions.

Also Baltimore. 😎

[Guest BasicSailor]

They could always tender you to where the larger ships berths. But that's talking more expense. One day they will give up on the ports or relocate them as to where they can catch bigger fish. 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by BasicSailor

[groundloop]

1 hour ago, mondello said:

I’d have to think Carnival would have a formula to determine the most cost effective way to continue cruising from Tampa after Paradise......

 

Do you realize that Pride is also sailing from Tampa?  I don't see Carnival retiring the Spirit class for quite a few more years so long as they're filling the ships to a reasonable capacity and making money.

[tidecat]

1 hour ago, ray98 said:

Carnival has to address it at some point.  Tampa is not the only one, others like Jacksonville and Mobile have restrictions.

Mobile doesn't have height restrictions, but the terminal would probably need to be expanded to host a larger ship on a permanent basis. The Conquest and Triumph (now Sunrise) have docked there before. The channel is being dredged and widened to allow for a larger turning basin, but is adequate for cruise ships now.

 

Jacksonville likely would be folded into Port Canaveral.

 

Baltimore would probably be replaced by Norfolk, although New York might be an option as well.

 

Tampa might be the trickier one - Port Canaveral is closest, but it obviously would struggle to do shorter Western Caribbean itineraries. Tampa's service may have to be consolidated into Miami (and/or Fort Lauderdale).

 

We'll sort of get a trial run as Charleston signs off in 2024. The closest port to Charleston is Jacksonville, but the Sunshine can't fit in Jacksonville. It is also possible Carnival sells the Sunshine presumably 3-6 years earlier than planned to avoid the 2024 drydock. Personally I would move the Spirit from Mobile to Jacksonville for the winter months (while continuing to sail to Alaska from Seattle in the summer) and then have the Sunshine spend summers in Norfolk and winters in Mobile.

 

I don't think Tampa will be an issue before 2028 (when Paradise and Elation turn 30), most likely into the start of the 2030s. Given how long most infrastructure projects take, Tampa, Jacksonville, and Baltimore need to be planning now if they needs to break ground potentially as soon as four years from now.

[ShakyBeef]

5 minutes ago, tidecat said:

Mobile doesn't have height restrictions, but the terminal would probably need to be expanded to host a larger ship on a permanent basis. The Conquest and Triumph (now Sunrise) have docked there before. The channel is being dredged and widened to allow for a larger turning basin, but is adequate for cruise ships now.

 

Jacksonville likely would be folded into Port Canaveral.

 

Baltimore would probably be replaced by Norfolk, although New York might be an option as well.

 

Tampa might be the trickier one - Port Canaveral is closest, but it obviously would struggle to do shorter Western Caribbean itineraries. Tampa's service may have to be consolidated into Miami (and/or Fort Lauderdale).

 

We'll sort of get a trial run as Charleston signs off in 2024. The closest port to Charleston is Jacksonville, but the Sunshine can't fit in Jacksonville. It is also possible Carnival sells the Sunshine presumably 3-6 years earlier than planned to avoid the 2024 drydock. Personally I would move the Spirit from Mobile to Jacksonville for the winter months (while continuing to sail to Alaska from Seattle in the summer) and then have the Sunshine spend summers in Norfolk and winters in Mobile.

 

I don't think Tampa will be an issue before 2028 (when Paradise and Elation turn 30), most likely into the start of the 2030s. Given how long most infrastructure projects take, Tampa, Jacksonville, and Baltimore need to be planning now if they needs to break ground potentially as soon as four years from now.

 

As for Baltimore, I would think Carnival will find a way to keep a ship sailing out of it indefinitely.  It is a very profitable embarkation port for the cruise line.  Maryland has the highest median household income of all 50 states ($83,242).  Washington, D.C.'s is even higher ($85,203).  A lot of disposable income is within an hour's drive to the port of Baltimore.   New York and/or Norfolk are not appealing port alternatives to many of us Marylanders.  Many of us would choose another cruise line ported in Baltimore (RCI or NCL, currently) before sailing out of Norfolk or New York.

 

Also, the accommodation of a larger ship in Baltimore would not be accomplished with any amount of groundbreaking on Baltimore's part.  The ship size limitation is based on the clearance of the Key Bridge (185') and the Chesapeake Bay Bridge (186').  Groundbreaking ain't gonna change that.😉

 

Spirit Class is perfect for Baltimore, IMO.  But if/when the Spirit Class ships are retired, who's to say that a new similarly-sized ship won't be built or bought by Carnival to port in Baltimore?  Must all new builds be behemoths? 

[ledges1]

I am surprised that Mobile has survived.  When Ecstasy leaves in October, Mobile will lose a $6 million revenue stream for it's parking deck and a bond debt to service. Carnival has promised the Spirit and taking reservations, however promises have been broken before. I would expect 

Carnival to favor Tampa over Mobile.

[tidecat]

40 minutes ago, ShakyBeef said:

Also, the accommodation of a larger ship in Baltimore would not be accomplished with any amount of groundbreaking on Baltimore's part.  The ship size limitation is 

Spirit Class is perfect for Baltimore, IMO.  But if/when the Spirit Class ships are retired, who's to say that a new similarly-sized ship won't be built or bought by Carnival to port in Baltimore?  Must all new builds be behemoths? 

The problem is no one can build a smaller ship for anywhere near $200,000 per lower berth (in today's dollars). So even if Carnival builds something comparable to the Spirit class, it can't charge Carnival prices. Carnival Pride cost $375 Million in 2002, which would be around $618 Million today, or just under $291,000 per lower berth. Mardi Gras was just under the $180,000 mark when she was delivered in 2020, although that would be just over $200,000 in 2022 dollars.

 

Although if Maryland and DC has so much money, I guess they can afford it. 😉

[jetsfan58]

It's called future expansion plans. Every major company has a team of usually higher paid suits to figure these things out. We all have to wait and see what happens. Could be new ports being built further from these suspension bridges, could be dredging machines/vessels lowering the water levels during sail away or could be moving to another port location? 

 

They will figure it all out rather than losing revenue. Trust me on this one!     

[nybumpkin]

57 minutes ago, ShakyBeef said:

 

New York and/or Norfolk are not appealing port alternatives to many of us Marylanders.  Many of us would choose another cruise line ported in Baltimore (RCI or NCL, currently) before sailing out of Norfolk or New York.

New York is fine for us (but hey, look where we're coming from), but we like sailing from Baltimore as well. Last time we left Baltimore around 7:45 and were home a little after lunchtime.

 

Norfolk? No way. Oldest son lives in Virginia Beach and works in Norfolk, and it's a horrid drive for us. Actually, it's a horrid drive for him as well.😮

[tidecat]

11 minutes ago, ledges1 said:

I am surprised that Mobile has survived.  When Ecstasy leaves in October, Mobile will lose a $6 million revenue stream for it's parking deck and a bond debt to service. Carnival has promised the Spirit and taking reservations, however promises have been broken before. I would expect 

Carnival to favor Tampa over Mobile.

Mobile's real problem is its proximity to New Orleans.

 

Spirit has to be put somewhere during the winter months. There is no room at Long Beach (Miracle, Radiance, Panorama). San Diego just cannibalizes Long Beach. Carnival could have done a third ship in Tampa or New Orleans alternating 5/4/5 day sailings with the Paradise or Valor, but Carnival chose Mobile. The things that worked in Mobile's favor is that there are no 3-day itineraries on the Gulf Coast, and that Carnival is wanting to have the Spirit do 6-8 day itineraries rather than 4-5 day itineraries. Since both Tampa and New Orleans have another ship doing 6-8 day cruises, they can't accommodate a ship doing 5 day cruises unless if you do something silly like have 7 day cruises departing on Tuesday or Wednesday.

[ShakyBeef]

8 minutes ago, tidecat said:

The problem is no one can build a smaller ship for anywhere near $200,000 per lower berth (in today's dollars). So even if Carnival builds something comparable to the Spirit class, it can't charge Carnival prices. Carnival Pride cost $375 Million in 2002, which would be around $618 Million today, or just under $291,000 per lower berth. Mardi Gras was just under the $180,000 mark when she was delivered in 2020, although that would be just over $200,000 in 2022 dollars.

 

Although if Maryland and DC has so much money, I guess they can afford it. 😉

 

That's a good point about building costs.  I hadn't thought about that aspect of it.  Everything is so much more expensive these days.  I guess that leaves constant upkeep/refurb & aggressive maintenance to keep its Baltimore-capable smaller ships afloat for as long as possible.  Or purchasing newer small builds from other lines / rebranding (ala Luminosa) ships from within the Carnival Corp. lines.  However it is accomplished, I predict Carnival will do what it needs to in order to keep sailing out of Baltimore for the foreseeable future.

[dolphinsfan246]

I remember years ago there was talks about Tampa building a terminal on the other side of the Sunshine Skyway, I guess those talks never materialized into anything. I’m sure Tampa is in a good spot to always have at least a Spirit class ship for quite some time, getting the Luminosa also helps. IF Carnival really wants to expand their smaller ship fleet, they still have 2 Spirit class ships in the Costa fleet that are literally sitting idle (supposed to be used for a Chinese start up) Also the Luminosa has an identical sister. But that would require purging the Costa fleet even more than it already has been. 

[ShakyBeef]

8 minutes ago, nybumpkin said:

New York is fine for us (but hey, look where we're coming from), but we like sailing from Baltimore as well. Last time we left Baltimore around 7:45 and were home a little after lunchtime.

 

Norfolk? No way. Oldest son lives in Virginia Beach and works in Norfolk, and it's a horrid drive for us. Actually, it's a horrid drive for him as well.😮

 

Funny thing, I live about exactly equidistant from Norfolk and Baltimore.  But I am not likely to cruise out of Norfolk.  You're right, the traffic around that area is horrid.  Not that Baltimore traffic is fabulous, but it's much better than that mess around Norfolk / Hampton Roads at rush hour. 

[mondello]

2 hours ago, groundloop said:

 

Do you realize that Pride is also sailing from Tampa?  I don't see Carnival retiring the Spirit class for quite a few more years so long as they're filling the ships to a reasonable capacity and making money.

Yeah, I’m not the one even posting the question. End of the line in Tampa is definitely far off. They have plenty of options as to how they will handle future ships based on Tampa.

[Guest BasicSailor]

 Fort Lauderdale will return as Carnival will surely need it. Tampa as others have said is a very nice/great port and I for one wish they could get a larger ship there. What would be the extent of it, build a higher bridge or another port 😁

[ledges1]

Based on where I live, Tampa provides the same destinations as New Orleans and Mobile. Therefore, I have not cruised out of Tampa. I prefer New Orleans over Mobile, parking is cheaper ($54 vs $100 for 5 days) and better ships. I do think Tampa is a more valuable port to Carnival than Mobile. For personal reasons, I would like to see Ft Lauderdale return. Easy access on Silver airlines. The last time out of FLL I went to Antiqua. I wish Carnival would add it back along with St Lucia and Barbados. 

[wannagonow123]

We sailed on the Miracle out of Tampa a few years ago. We did get advisory right before we sailed that if there were any weather disturbances (high tides due to storms) our departure could be delayed up to 24 hours as we had to leave during low tide.

[Pyrate13]

I seem to recall someone at one time looking for a spot past the bridge in Tampa for a new cruise port but there weren't any viable locations. Building a new bridge was projected to be too expensive. As for lowering the water level as someone else posted, how do you lower the water in the entire Tampa Bay other than the natural tides?  You sure can't lower the water just under the bridge and dredging only lowers the seabed, not the water.

[Essiesmom]

The Carnival stable also has the AIDA brand, and at leas 2/3 of their fleet of 12 are Fantasy class or smaller, and the oldest built in 2003.  Might keep them on the radar… EM

[sanmarcosman]

2 hours ago, nybumpkin said:

Norfolk? No way. Oldest son lives in Virginia Beach and works in Norfolk, and it's a horrid drive for us. Actually, it's a horrid drive for him as well.😮

You got that right. Norfolk hasn't even found safe and secure parking in that town. I grew up in Tiredwater (spelled correctly) and glad I left. 

[rwilk1129]

• Love sailing out of Tampa but would like a newer not bigger ship to sail. Will continue to sail Pride and Paradise and drive to FLL for newer (Princess) ships
•  

[starstruck05]

4 hours ago, tidecat said:

Mobile's real problem is its proximity to New Orleans.

 

Spirit has to be put somewhere during the winter months. There is no room at Long Beach (Miracle, Radiance, Panorama). San Diego just cannibalizes Long Beach. Carnival could have done a third ship in Tampa or New Orleans alternating 5/4/5 day sailings with the Paradise or Valor, but Carnival chose Mobile. The things that worked in Mobile's favor is that there are no 3-day itineraries on the Gulf Coast, and that Carnival is wanting to have the Spirit do 6-8 day itineraries rather than 4-5 day itineraries. Since both Tampa and New Orleans have another ship doing 6-8 day cruises, they can't accommodate a ship doing 5 day cruises unless if you do something silly like have 7 day cruises departing on Tuesday or Wednesday.

It's proximity to New Orleans is a good AND bad thing for Moblie. We just took a cruise last week from Moblie because it fit my time off better than New Orleans. But The good thing for Moblie is that Carnival as to work around Royal Caribbean and Disney's schedule in NOLA. (We also get the World ship and a few other luxury lines here as port stops) That's pretty much is what hinders us from getting a 3rd ship. Also parking but that may be resolved soon. Moblie since it's 2 hours away allows a "third" Gulf ship. (I'm not counting Texas in this of course) . I suspect it's the same concept to them with Tampa. My thought would be Carnival would rebrand and ship over building a new smaller ship. It just makes more sense cost wise.