Thoughts.

[clarets]

On a couple of things.

Just got back from a cruise on iona which we enjoyed but like others thought the ship perhaps a little too big.

 

point 1,

              Shorts, why put it on the webpage that shorts are not allowed at night and then have no one to enforce this?

              I buy tailored shorts mainly from M&S that are as expensive as the chinos i have bought from the same store

              so i think the rule is a little daft in the hot weather, but my point is that i left most of my shorts at home, just taking

              enough for trips off ship only to find quite a lot of men in shorts at night and some in my view were scruffy shorts

              that had been worn all day around the pool ( 3/4 shorts/pants even worse)

 

Point 2,

             Not Many will agree with this but black tie nights are so 1920 to 1940 not 2022.

              i took more than enough quality shirts for every night but no suit whilst a lot of others took a suit and seemed to

              be in the same clothes night after night.

              My problem was we were stopped going in certain bars due to not having a tie on and yet paid the same and more

              for our cruise.

              

[Wonky]

So it’s not smart enough or too smart?!

[yorkshirephil]

36 minutes ago, Wonky said:

So it’s not smart enough or too smart?!

And the rules aren't enforced or they are enforced

[Megabear2]

2 hours ago, clarets said:

On a couple of things.

Just got back from a cruise on iona which we enjoyed but like others thought the ship perhaps a little too big.

 

point 1,

              Shorts, why put it on the webpage that shorts are not allowed at night and then have no one to enforce this?

              I buy tailored shorts mainly from M&S that are as expensive as the chinos i have bought from the same store

              so i think the rule is a little daft in the hot weather, but my point is that i left most of my shorts at home, just taking

              enough for trips off ship only to find quite a lot of men in shorts at night and some in my view were scruffy shorts

              that had been worn all day around the pool ( 3/4 shorts/pants even worse)

 

Point 2,

             Not Many will agree with this but black tie nights are so 1920 to 1940 not 2022.

              i took more than enough quality shirts for every night but no suit whilst a lot of others took a suit and seemed to

              be in the same clothes night after night.

              My problem was we were stopped going in certain bars due to not having a tie on and yet paid the same and more

              for our cruise.

              

The rules on shorts are quite clear. If you were unhappy (as I would be) at shorts in the dining room , particularly if you were being refused entry in other areas for no tie, you were at liberty to politely inform staff about the situation.  It would seem odd for you to be singled out for the "lesser cardinal sin".  May I ask which areas these shorts were being worn in and were they the same places you were barred from?

 

You don't mention your age group or whether this is your first cruise but Iona is fairly relaxed compared with the other P&O ships with only one formal night a week.  I assume you are referring to those nights for your ban.  If so the rules are spelt out quite clearly before booking.

 

I hope that apart from these minor troubles you enjoyed yourselves and had a good cruise.

[emam]

I don't understand people who book on P&O knowing about the formal nights then complain about them. If you don't want to do formal you don't have to, we missed one night out of four and regretted it. If a restaurant on land stipulated you had to wear a tie would you go without one?🤔

 

There are complaints about formal nights and that P&O don't have amusements on the ships. People know this when they book, so why complain about it later. Every cruise line has different amenities, go with the one nearest to what you want and accept that there could be some things you don't want. 😀

No company will keep 3,000-5,000 people happy but they must be getting most things right as they still sail every week. 

[GSPG]

I don’t enjoy formal nights, but dress up as the others do and think what’s the point, who is all this for. Sceptical mind thinks more money for the company through the photographers. I also don’t like the way people behave looking quite judgemental in their £2,000 jackets compared to something from next. A fair amount of looking down one’s nose.

 

As regards P&O getting things right through the amount of passengers now, I just don’t know.

 

From my take on the ship the last fortnight, I got the impression loyal guests did not enjoy the experience through cutbacks, lack of food quality, technology for booking food and shows, families who got up very early to reserve beds and dominated in the infinity pools.

Many people are still cruising first time out of covid, or just taken the cruise using up their FCC.

But it’s not the same experience and product pre covid with cost cutting and what appears to be new customer target for the company in families. Trouble was apart from the pools, there wasn’t much there for the kids.

 

 

 

[JDB78]

2 hours ago, GSPG said:

I don’t enjoy formal nights, but dress up as the others do and think what’s the point, who is all this for. Sceptical mind thinks more money for the company through the photographers. I also don’t like the way people behave looking quite judgemental in their £2,000 jackets compared to something from next. A fair amount of looking down one’s nose.

 

As regards P&O getting things right through the amount of passengers now, I just don’t know.

 

From my take on the ship the last fortnight, I got the impression loyal guests did not enjoy the experience through cutbacks, lack of food quality, technology for booking food and shows, families who got up very early to reserve beds and dominated in the infinity pools.

Many people are still cruising first time out of covid, or just taken the cruise using up their FCC.

But it’s not the same experience and product pre covid with cost cutting and what appears to be new customer target for the company in families. Trouble was apart from the pools, there wasn’t much there for the kids.

 

 

 

I think identity is a problem for P&O at the minute. You've got 1 group of people, the more traditional cruisers many of whom dont like the move to bigger ships, more families onboard and the more relaxed and informal holiday in general. Then you've got the other end of the spectrum who hate dressing up, want a laid back informal experience and will say there's very few facilities on board especially for kids.

 

Maybe P&O don't have to be all 1 or the other but the new direction does seem to be causing a bit of upset for some. They could be accused of trying to please everyone, but pleasing no-one - the booking levels suggest this isn't the case however.

 

IMO prices have been very reasonable, probably too low. If, as expected, prices have to rise to return to profitability, you may start to see people question if P&O are still worth for them. Me, being an accountants son, admittedly I am a bit price sensitive and usually put value above looking for a specific experience. It would be price that would affect me booking in future rather than the rules and regs onboard. Always take a tux for the formal nights but mainly just to fit it - mainly book just to get away from work and hopefully a bit of sunshine, so pretty laid back and will just go with the flow when comes to dress codes etc

[Port out]

I'm one of the old brigade having cruised for more than 30 years with P&O. Frankly things and passengers have changed so much and not all for the good imo. I fully understand the need for P&O to fill their ships but to offer out prices of cabins which represent such cheap deals and attracts folk who can't afford to live up to the standards of a quality holiday is disappointing. Unfortunately these deals impact on those of us who enjoy a good standard of dress especially in the evening and this brings the whole enjoyment of the cruise down several points which is such a shame.

[Bazrat]

8 hours ago, GSPG said:

I don’t enjoy formal nights, but dress up as the others do and think what’s the point, who is all this for. Sceptical mind thinks more money for the company through the photographers. I also don’t like the way people behave looking quite judgemental in their £2,000 jackets compared to something from next. A fair amount of looking down one’s nose.

 

As regards P&O getting things right through the amount of passengers now, I just don’t know.

 

From my take on the ship the last fortnight, I got the impression loyal guests did not enjoy the experience through cutbacks, lack of food quality, technology for booking food and shows, families who got up very early to reserve beds and dominated in the infinity pools.

Many people are still cruising first time out of covid, or just taken the cruise using up their FCC.

But it’s not the same experience and product pre covid with cost cutting and what appears to be new customer target for the company in families. Trouble was apart from the pools, there wasn’t much there for the kids.

 

 

 

I have actually no idea what a £2000 jacket looks nor do I care, my suit was on sale got it cheap happy to wear it

Edited October 27, 2022 by Bazrat

[Host Sharon]

15 hours ago, clarets said:

On a couple of things.

Just got back from a cruise on iona which we enjoyed but like others thought the ship perhaps a little too big.

 

point 1,

              Shorts, why put it on the webpage that shorts are not allowed at night and then have no one to enforce this?

              I buy tailored shorts mainly from M&S that are as expensive as the chinos i have bought from the same store

              so i think the rule is a little daft in the hot weather, but my point is that i left most of my shorts at home, just taking

              enough for trips off ship only to find quite a lot of men in shorts at night and some in my view were scruffy shorts

              that had been worn all day around the pool ( 3/4 shorts/pants even worse)

 

              My problem was we were stopped going in certain bars due to not having a tie on and yet paid the same and more

              for our cruise.

              

I'm not sure what cost has to do with how appropriate an item of clothing is. It was the same when jeans were not allowed in the evenings and people said theirs were designer jeans and cost more than other people's evening gowns. The dress code is very clearly laid out in the brochure and on the web site, although the new definition of 'Comfy casual wear' is particularly confusing.

[Camberley]

Don’t mind formal nights but in my experience the enforcing of the “rules” depends on which staff are there in certain venues. But it does irritate when folk who are determined not to dress up (fine, their choice) are still hell-bent on trying the venues where dress code is expected and feel the need to create a scene.
 

I do find the formal nights and the supposed level of sophistication it might bring to those evenings are perhaps at odds with the slight element of naffness the company has arguably gone down. Well, to a point: I still like P&O but it is a cheap and (sometimes) cheerful company rather than an elegant cruise company - but cheap and cheerful is sometimes very much in order 🤣

Edited October 27, 2022 by Camberley

[Froxfield]

I guess I am in the minority here. Having decided to quit P&O after a miserable cruise on Oriana due to cold: ship not fit for purpose! We tried Iona this May and loved the ship and its multiple dining options. Maybe it wasn't full, but we are going again in November and will see if an increased passenger load changes the experience. Frankly, we found we enjoyed this bigger ship far more than previous P&O cruises on Arcadia and Oriana.  Maybe a few touches have gone missing, but nothing we miss particularly.

[jeanlyon]

I do wonder who we are dressing up for.  Quite honestly, I wear a dress, not long, or black trousers mostly.  That is what I would normally wear to go out for dinner.  I don't do the long ball gown stuff.  It does seem a bit outlandish in this day and age.  Smart casual should be enough.  not shorts though.

[Bazrat]

The problem is there is a dress code everyone knows what it is, there is no obligation to follow it but you also must obey the rules about where about on the ship you go.

The next thing is smart casual why not include shorts string vest etc, as long as they cost over a certain value you can say they are tailored.

[9265359]

P&O is between a rock and a hard place.

 

Going back in time my father would come home from his manual work job, change for the evening and would usually put on a tie. If we went out for a meal he would always be wearing a jacket and tie, even if it was just to a pub.

 

Go into any office now and not only will nobody be wearing a suit, let alone a tie, most people won't actually be in the office but working remotely from home dressed in tracksuit bottoms and a sweatshirt.

 

Go into just about any restaurant in the UK and I doubt you will find anyone wearing a tie let alone a suit.

 

The traditional people who cruised and for many years made up the majority of their customers and enjoyed the formal evenings and 'dressing up' in general are from my father's generation.

 

Unfortunately that generation are either dying off or have temporarily ceased cruising because of the pandemic and they are not willing to 'risk' getting on a cruise ship.

 

This change in customer base was inevitable but the pandemic has just accelerated the process.

 

Another issues with the older customer base not booking is they would pay the higher prices and so P&O have had to discount heavily to fill the cabins.

 

Recently P&O have been selling select price cruises for as little as £60 per night including £11.50 onboard credit and free parking worth £150+ so effectively a little over £40 a night for accommodation, travel, three (or more) meals, entertainment, etc. Those are 'bargain bucket' prices you couldn't get in a holiday camp in the UK, so do the customers booking them expect to 'dress up' more than they would on a holiday camp.

 

If P&O tries to do a 'Cunard' and insist on ties and jackets all the time then even selling cruises at those prices will fail and so it is trying to reach a compromise by reducing the number of formal nights to once a week on the newer ships.

 

But the next stage that will come in the next few years will be the optional 'dress to impress' that some other cruise lines operate and will replace the single formal night, as more and more people take the view that buying and taking a Dinner Jacket or a single night isn't worth it.

 

And there is nothing anyone can do to stop it, and the traditionalists ceasing to book because they are not getting the formality they experienced in the past will only hasten its demise.

[Harry Peterson]

2 hours ago, 9265359 said:

P&O is between a rock and a hard place.

 

Going back in time my father would come home from his manual work job, change for the evening and would usually put on a tie. If we went out for a meal he would always be wearing a jacket and tie, even if it was just to a pub.

 

Go into any office now and not only will nobody be wearing a suit, let alone a tie, most people won't actually be in the office but working remotely from home dressed in tracksuit bottoms and a sweatshirt.

 

Go into just about any restaurant in the UK and I doubt you will find anyone wearing a tie let alone a suit.

 

The traditional people who cruised and for many years made up the majority of their customers and enjoyed the formal evenings and 'dressing up' in general are from my father's generation.

 

Unfortunately that generation are either dying off or have temporarily ceased cruising because of the pandemic and they are not willing to 'risk' getting on a cruise ship.

 

This change in customer base was inevitable but the pandemic has just accelerated the process.

 

Another issues with the older customer base not booking is they would pay the higher prices and so P&O have had to discount heavily to fill the cabins.

 

Recently P&O have been selling select price cruises for as little as £60 per night including £11.50 onboard credit and free parking worth £150+ so effectively a little over £40 a night for accommodation, travel, three (or more) meals, entertainment, etc. Those are 'bargain bucket' prices you couldn't get in a holiday camp in the UK, so do the customers booking them expect to 'dress up' more than they would on a holiday camp.

 

If P&O tries to do a 'Cunard' and insist on ties and jackets all the time then even selling cruises at those prices will fail and so it is trying to reach a compromise by reducing the number of formal nights to once a week on the newer ships.

 

But the next stage that will come in the next few years will be the optional 'dress to impress' that some other cruise lines operate and will replace the single formal night, as more and more people take the view that buying and taking a Dinner Jacket or a single night isn't worth it.

 

And there is nothing anyone can do to stop it, and the traditionalists ceasing to book because they are not getting the formality they experienced in the past will only hasten its demise.

Exceedingly well put. I fully agree.

[Bazrat]

3 hours ago, 9265359 said:

P&O is between a rock and a hard place.

 

Going back in time my father would come home from his manual work job, change for the evening and would usually put on a tie. If we went out for a meal he would always be wearing a jacket and tie, even if it was just to a pub.

 

Go into any office now and not only will nobody be wearing a suit, let alone a tie, most people won't actually be in the office but working remotely from home dressed in tracksuit bottoms and a sweatshirt.

 

Go into just about any restaurant in the UK and I doubt you will find anyone wearing a tie let alone a suit.

 

The traditional people who cruised and for many years made up the majority of their customers and enjoyed the formal evenings and 'dressing up' in general are from my father's generation.

 

Unfortunately that generation are either dying off or have temporarily ceased cruising because of the pandemic and they are not willing to 'risk' getting on a cruise ship.

 

This change in customer base was inevitable but the pandemic has just accelerated the process.

 

Another issues with the older customer base not booking is they would pay the higher prices and so P&O have had to discount heavily to fill the cabins.

 

Recently P&O have been selling select price cruises for as little as £60 per night including £11.50 onboard credit and free parking worth £150+ so effectively a little over £40 a night for accommodation, travel, three (or more) meals, entertainment, etc. Those are 'bargain bucket' prices you couldn't get in a holiday camp in the UK, so do the customers booking them expect to 'dress up' more than they would on a holiday camp.

 

If P&O tries to do a 'Cunard' and insist on ties and jackets all the time then even selling cruises at those prices will fail and so it is trying to reach a compromise by reducing the number of formal nights to once a week on the newer ships.

 

But the next stage that will come in the next few years will be the optional 'dress to impress' that some other cruise lines operate and will replace the single formal night, as more and more people take the view that buying and taking a Dinner Jacket or a single night isn't worth it.

 

And there is nothing anyone can do to stop it, and the traditionalists ceasing to book because they are not getting the formality they experienced in the past will only hasten its demise.

You are correct in your assessment but currently on Britannia the dress code seams to be enjoyed my many generations of cruisers, the current debate about should P&O change they are the new ships coming on stream the black tie nights or celebration night are virtually extinct.

The real point is would you like P&O to be no different to any other cruise lines, some on here wouldn’t mind than they could complain about falling standards than reminisce about the good old days.

[Britboys]

Whenever I see this discussion on the board, the thing that always occurs to me is that in many cases P&O are operating two different cruise lines under the same name. My cruise aboard Aurora last month was - by and large - a traditional cruise experience. We had 5 Formal nights and the dress code was overwhelmingly adhered to and most pax very much lived up to the term "smart casual". Yes, there were a few exceptions but very much in the minority. The fact that it was 19 nights in duration probably very much attracted an older, more traditional demographic.

The new ships are designed and priced to attract a much wider demographic. We all approach "smart casual" from our own perspective. My approach is 'formal' trousers, long-sleeve shirt (sometimes short-sleeve especially if a warm climate) and 'formal' leather shoes. I don't generally wear chinos or polo shirts. Others feel jeans, t-shirt and casual shoes fit the bill.

I understand why P&O need to widen their appeal but as others have said, this approach can easily lead to some feeling 'disgruntled'.

It is an issue that won't go away and is likely to become more widespread as new cruisers attracted to the new ships try out their older 'stable-mates'.

[Megabear2]

Unfortunately smart is in the eye of the beholder.  My friend was shocked to see a lady of her own age (31) wearing what she termed a dress for a tart when we cruised earlier in the year.  The dress in question was skin tight with large keyhole cut outs where the boobs were proudly on display while so low cut there was little to the imagination.  It was also incredibly short and stark white.  It was accompanied by Laboutine spiked red shoes.  No man of any age could draw their eyes off her.

 

I thought she was brave and extremely confident to carry it off, my young friend on the other hand called her a virtual whore!

 

The lady however felt she was following the dress code as it was clearly what she considered formal.  I'd no problem but others probably did judging by their strange looks and nudges.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Megabear2

[devonuk]

I’m currently on the Ventura and shock/horror… baseball caps in the Bay Tree Restaurant even on the Gala night 🤦‍♂️ I must say that they weren’t worn back to front though 😉

[9265359]

1 hour ago, Britboys said:

It is an issue that won't go away and is likely to become more widespread as new cruisers attracted to the new ships try out their older 'stable-mates'.

You assume that the older ships will remain in the long term, which I seriously doubt they will.

[davecttr]

55 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Unfortunately smart is in the eye of the beholder.  My friend was shocked to see a lady of her own age (31) wearing what she termed a dress for a tart when we cruised earlier in the year.  The dress in question was skin tight with large keyhole cut outs where the boobs were proudly on display while so low cut there was little to the imagination.  It was also incredibly short and stark white.  It was accompanied by Laboutine spiked red shoes.  No man of any age could draw their eyes off her.

 

I thought she was brave and extremely confident to carry it off, my young friend on the other hand called her a virtual whore!

 

The lady however felt she was following the dress code as it was clearly what she considered formal.  I'd no problem but others probably did judging by their strange looks and nudges.

With the drift towards dress to impress what you would wear to go out clubbing on the weekend would be acceptable. For me that means what I wear in the social club, only joking 😉

[Bazrat]

As a side note we have just had lunch in the horizon restaurant, on the way out we was passed by a young woman in a bikini and a group of lads with there t-shirts over there shoulders, are we being old fashioned in thinking that's not right or is that moving with the times.

Yes we eat in the buffet judge us if you will 🤣

[The Wolfman]

As for 'black tie nights are so 1920 to 1940 not 2022.'  I understand this to mean that in 2022 standards have completely gone out of the window so why bother to have black-tie nights. What a shame that cruising is essentially being bought down to lowest levels and standards of dress by those who are 'newcomers' attracted by the low prices of cruises. It's all about standards darling, that's why it's not appropriate to come shabbily dressed to decent restaurants and hang out in the clothes that you would go to the local pub dressed in.

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

Unfortunately smart is in the eye of the beholder.  My friend was shocked to see a lady of her own age (31) wearing what she termed a dress for a tart when we cruised earlier in the year.  The dress in question was skin tight with large keyhole cut outs where the boobs were proudly on display while so low cut there was little to the imagination.  It was also incredibly short and stark white.  It was accompanied by Laboutine spiked red shoes.  No man of any age could draw their eyes off her.

 

I thought she was brave and extremely confident to carry it off, my young friend on the other hand called her a virtual whore!

 

The lady however felt she was following the dress code as it was clearly what she considered formal.  I'd no problem but others probably did judging by their strange looks and nudges.

Do you have a picture?  Asking for a friend.