Passport needed: closed loop out of San Juan

[Ashland]

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Thanks for pointing that out.  My state's DMV says real ID will be required to fly.   That simply isn't true for those with passports.  

 

I just had to renew my DL.   My choice was to book an appt and go the DMV for a real ID, or renew my DL online.   I did the online renewal.   

This is exactly what we both did also. We'll continue to have current passports and a regular DL.

[sparks1093]

Ok, dusted of the copy of the proposed regulations. Economic impact was considered by OMB as a result of Federal law, which mandates such a study in any regulation that would cost more than $100 million dollars and when considering Alternative 1, requiring all US travelers including children to present a valid passport book this is what it says:

"This alternative would require all U.S. citizens, including minors under 16 and all cruise passengers, to present a valid passport book. The passport card, CBP trusted traveler documents, the MMD, and documents from DHS-approved pilot programs would not be accepted. This would be a more stringent alternative, and it was rejected as potentially too costly and burdensome for low-risk populations of travelers. While the traditional passport book will always be an acceptable document for a U.S. citizen to present upon entry to the United States, DHS and DOS believe that the cost of a traditional passport book may be too burdensome for some U.S. citizens, particularly those living in border communities where land-border crossings are an integral part of everyday life. As stated previously, DHS and DOS believe that children under the age of 16 pose a low security threat in the land and sea environments and will be permitted to present a certified copy of a birth certificate when arriving in the United States at all land and sea ports-of-entry from within the Western Hemisphere. Additionally, DHS and CBP have developed an alternative procedure for children traveling in groups. DHS and DOS have also determined that exempting certain cruise passengers from a passport requirement is the best approach to balance security and travel efficiency considerations in the cruise ship environment."

 

(bolding for emphasis). Too burdensome for groups of low risk populations of travelers (NOT low income populations-- low risk populations).

 

Additionally, if every traveler needed to have a passport this would increase the number of Federal employees because of the increased demand, and while some of those expenses would be offset by user fees some tax dollars would still be in play. If anyone is interested in reading the proposed regulations which I just quoted you can go here Federal Register :: Documents Required for Travelers Departing From or Arriving in the United States at Sea and Land Ports-of-Entry From Within the Western Hemisphere but bring some milk, some of it is very dry reading.

 

These regulations have been in place since 2008 and until the security threat posed by US citizens on closed loop cruises changes the regulations won't change. DHS and DOS have developed procedures to be used since the regulations were written to assist those passengers without passports on a closed loop cruise that need assistance. 

[navybankerteacher]

11 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

So you think they publish that if they don't mean it? You are something. Most TSA employees are not power hungry jerks. They are actually fairly sensable about it verifying ID.  You think they are clueless about how because you are? It could take about 10 or 15 minutes or less.  The reason I knew about this policy that you could travel if you forgot or lost your ID is that I was in a position to interact with the TSA for a bunch of years. Never observed them to deny .

Of course they “mean it” - but if you take a minute to think you would realize that the ID-less traveler would have to have support from someone at home to convince the TSA that the traveler was who he claimed to be. 
 

I too have “interacted” with (and observed in action) the TSA in action.  What you might have “never observed” is kind of immaterial— what you might have observed could be relevant.  Sure - it can be done: but you need enough time for the TSA to be able to reach someone able to prove their credibility and their knowledge of your identity.  
 

[sparks1093]

13 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course they “mean it” - but if you take a minute to think you would realize that the ID-less traveler would have to have support from someone at home to convince the TSA that the traveler was who he claimed to be. 
 

I too have “interacted” with (and observed in action) the TSA in action.  What you might have “never observed” is kind of immaterial— what you might have observed could be relevant.  Sure - it can be done: but you need enough time for the TSA to be able to reach someone able to prove their credibility and their knowledge of your identity.  
 

The same thing applies at the border. It happens around here once or twice a year, someone goes to Canada and while there loses the document required to re-enter the US. When they show up at the border they are sent to secondary inspection where CBP varies who they are. That sometimes does entail having a family member make the drive to the border crossing to deliver other documents or to provide identification. It's good to know that such provisions exist for both CBP and TSA but one would not ordinarily show up sans proper ID.

[Charles4515]

15 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

Real ID is supposed to go into effect on May 03, 2023. Might actually happen this time.

 

LOL. I did say supposed. The Real ID deadline was extended today to May 07, 2025!

 

https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/releases/2022/12/05/dhs-announces-extension-real-id-full-enforcement-deadline

Edited December 5, 2022 by Charles4515

[sparks1093]

8 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

LOL. I did say supposed. The Real ID deadline was extended today to May 07, 2025!

 

https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/releases/2022/12/05/dhs-announces-extension-real-id-full-enforcement-deadline

One of these days they will get it fully implemented. At least all states are now issued REAL ID compliant licenses.

Edited December 5, 2022 by sparks1093

[GeezerCouple]

9 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

One of these days they will get it fully implemented. At least all states are now issued REAL ID compliant licenses.

 

For states with ID compliant licenses, can a license get renewed without becoming a REAL ID compliant license?  Or can some people just keep endlessly renewing an "old fashioned" license?

 

GC

[Charles4515]

1 minute ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

For states with ID compliant licenses, can a license get renewed without becoming a REAL ID compliant license?  Or can some people just keep endlessly renewing an "old fashioned" license?

 

GC

 

Depends on the sate. Some states make it optional. The state I live in now only issues Real ID so on renewal only option is a  Real ID  DL.  My previous state issued only Real ID for office renewals but not for mail in renewals. But every other renewal had to be an office renewal. The mail in renewals were also a shorter duration. So in time all would have Real ID. Also seniors had to do office renewals in previous state. Given the extensions to 2025 possibly  all licenses issued there will be Real ID.

[sparks1093]

33 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

For states with ID compliant licenses, can a license get renewed without becoming a REAL ID compliant license?  Or can some people just keep endlessly renewing an "old fashioned" license?

 

GC

In Vermont they can do that if they wish. They are only limiting what they can do with that ID. I don't know how long it will remain an option. I've had a REAL ID compliant license since 2014 when I got my first EDL (which of course is a different animal than the REAL ID compliant license and is only issued by 5 states).

[ldubs]

42 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

For states with ID compliant licenses, can a license get renewed without becoming a REAL ID compliant license?  Or can some people just keep endlessly renewing an "old fashioned" license?

 

GC

 

The answer is currently yes for my state (California).  I just renewed my regular license on line because getting the real ID required a visit to DMV and a test.  I was too lazy to do that.  

 

The ability to still get the old DL's technically would not be a reason to stop implementation off Real ID.   Of course,  without widespread Real ID use, it will be the worst air travel day in history when they throw the switch.  

Edited December 5, 2022 by ldubs

[Ashland]

44 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

For states with ID compliant licenses, can a license get renewed without becoming a REAL ID compliant license?  Or can some people just keep endlessly renewing an "old fashioned" license?

 

GC

Our posts #49 & #51...Thanks California for making this an easy option for those of us that can renew online and opt out of getting the REAL ID. Our current passport will work just fine for traveling...and what we prefer.

[Charles4515]

17 minutes ago, Ashland said:

Our posts #49 & #51...Thanks California for making this an easy option for those of us that can renew online and opt out of getting the REAL ID. Our current passport will work just fine for traveling...and what we prefer.

Eventually you will have to renew at an office. 

 

I prefer not to travel domestically with a passport book. I have the Real ID DL. Did not have any choice but it wan not a problem getting one. I had no online option so no choice but I would have went to an office anyway. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Charles4515

[Charles4515]

21 minutes ago, ldubs said:

The ability to still get the old DL's technically would not be a reason to stop implementation off Real ID.   Of course,  without widespread Real ID use, it will be the worst air travel day in history when they throw the switch.  

Edited 9 minutes ago by ldubs

During Covid many DMVs did not have office hours for renewals. That is the reason given for the delay. I read that about 50% of US DLs are Real ID. 

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, Charles4515 said:

Eventually you will have to renew at an office. 

 

Yes, we will.   The current option is because our governor extended the covid rule intended to protect us old folks (70 & up) from having to visit a public place like the DMV.    That law says a DL written test is required for renewals at 70 years old.  That is also waived through the end of this year.   So us age advantaged folks can renew online without taking the test.  Had me worried because I can never remember what the yellow curb means.  

[ldubs]

5 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

During Covid many DMVs did not have office hours for renewals. That is the reason given for the delay. I read that about 50% of US DLs are Real ID. 

 

That makes a heck of a lot of sense. Thanks!

[Flatbush Flyer]

19 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

How do you suppose someone who shows up “…without ANY  ID…”  could satisfy the TSA as to their identity?

Actually it can. My daughter once misplaced her wallet at the airport on her way to fly out on a domestic flight (SFO-LIH). TSA interviewed her and cleared her to leave. She also had to go through the same process on her return. A bit less hassle in that direction since the SFPD had her wallet and could verify her too.

[Charles4515]

18 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Yes, we will.   The current option is because our governor extended the covid rule intended to protect us old folks (70 & up) from having to visit a public place like the DMV.    That law says a DL written test is required for renewals at 70 years old.  That is also waived through the end of this year.   So us age advantaged folks can renew online without taking the test.  Had me worried because I can never remember what the yellow curb means.  

In my current state they don't require seniors to take a written test but at age 79 and above they have someone "evaluate" you. Sounds subjective. In my previous state no written test only a vision test.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Charles4515

[ldubs]

4 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

In my current state they don't require seniors to take a written test but at age 79 and above they have someone "evaluate" you. Sound subjective. In my previous state no written test only a vision test.

 

At my annual physical this year my Doc said they were required to do some kind of mental acuity eval because of my age.  I don't know if it is a law or just their policy.  Or, maybe something Mrs Ldubs asked them to do, IDK.   Fortunately, I knew what day it was and was able to answer the questions.  They gave me a clipboard and asked me to write any sentence.  Good thing I get plenty of practice here on the forums.  Haha.  

[LHT28]

Must  be Full Moon  time again 😁

[GeezerCouple]

18 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

At my annual physical this year my Doc said they were required to do some kind of mental acuity eval because of my age.  I don't know if it is a law or just their policy.  Or, maybe something Mrs Ldubs asked them to do, IDK.   Fortunately, I knew what day it was and was able to answer the questions.  They gave me a clipboard and asked me to write any sentence.  Good thing I get plenty of practice here on the forums.  Haha.  

 

Are you closer to 55 or to 85?

 

I wonder if we are heading for a writing test.

Ever since I started using my laptop for just about *everything*, my handwriting has deteriorated significantly.  Even my own signature isn't what it used to be.  That's embarrassing.  If it appears that I misspelled my own name, was it because my signature is almost illegible or ... did I actually misspell my own name!? 😳

 

GC

[ldubs]

4 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Are you closer to 55 or to 85?

 

I wonder if we are heading for a writing test.

Ever since I started using my laptop for just about *everything*, my handwriting has deteriorated significantly.  Even my own signature isn't what it used to be.  That's embarrassing.  If it appears that I misspelled my own name, was it because my signature is almost illegible or ... did I actually misspell my own name!? 😳

 

GC

 

I am turning 71 this month.  

 

Oh yeah, I agree about handwriting.  Mine is horrible.  While my good friend Arthur Itus might be partially to blame, I also think lack of practice plays a big part.   

[reeinaz]

On 12/4/2022 at 6:13 PM, Charles4515 said:

 

This is how.........😆

 

Forgot Your ID?

In the event you arrive at the airport without valid identification, because it is lost or at home, you may still be allowed to fly. The TSA officer may ask you to complete an identity verification process which includes collecting information such as your name, current address, and other personal information to confirm your identity. If your identity is confirmed, you will be allowed to enter the screening checkpoint. You will be subject to additional screening, to include a patdown and screening of carry-on property.

You will not be allowed to enter the security checkpoint if your identity cannot be confirmed, you choose to not provide proper identification or you decline to cooperate with the identity verification process.

TSA recommends that you arrive at least two hours in advance of your flight time.

 

Yep. Equifax is used to electronically confirm identity using information from a person's credit report. Not sure if this is used by TSA but it is used by at least 1 other government agency that I am aware of.