Arvia - Impressions from Maiden

[Interestedcruisefan]

20 minutes ago, lincslady said:

I'm Auntie Ethel, and although obviously I use a computer for emails, websites and ordering online - and Cruise Critic - I have not got a smart phone, and am unwilling to carry a phone or similar around.  However, I think anyone cold cope with a pager, if it could be handed to you not at the restaurant door for obvious reasons, it could be coped with by even the most ancient and technophobe of us.

Myself having suggested alternative places to get pagers I'm trying to second guess why they don't do it 

 

I'm guessing if pagers became too easy and too convenient less people would move to the app

 

Obviously Plan A is to have as many guests as possible self sufficient and using the app

 

Introducing more pagers and more convenient ways to get them might be a short term gain but long term pain in the respect of encouraging as many people as possibe to use the app

 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Snow Hill]

37 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Just out of curiosity, are you happy to trust an anonymous VPN with personal information which could in itself compromise your financial or other security?

 

Not sure I would. 

A VPN is a Virtual Private Network, apart from your contact details and payment given they know nothing else about you. Traffic passing through a VPN is encrypted and goes via proxy servers across the world making it difficult for you data to be stolen whilst it is in transit, something that can happen when you connect to an unprotected public network. The vast majority of VPN providers don’t store any details of sites visit or where you accessed those sites from.

 

https://surfshark.com/blog/wifi-vpn

Edited January 20, 2023 by Snow Hill

[Interestedcruisefan]

9 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Interestingly I'm just watching the Billion Dollar Cruise based on Symphony of the Seas.  They have club dining with set times alongside their equivalent of freedom, which incidentally looks more restrictive.

 

When I booked my Celebrity Beyond cruise for this Christmas it had three dining times - I recall Bazrat saying he looked at it but because only 8.30pm dinner was available he decided not to book.

 

Clearly RC and Celebrity have realised shoving thousands around on these big ships needs different handling.

Based on the debate we are having you have to imagine the cruise lines spend thousands of hours discussing the best way to make it smoother for everyone 

 

However, as we all know it's incredibly hard to try and please all of the people all of the time

 

[Eglesbrech]

4 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Interestingly I'm just watching the Billion Dollar Cruise based on Symphony of the Seas.  They have club dining with set times alongside their equivalent of freedom, which incidentally looks more restrictive.

 

When I booked my Celebrity Beyond cruise for this Christmas it had three dining times - I recall Bazrat saying he looked at it but because only 8.30pm dinner was available he decided not to book.

 

Clearly RC and Celebrity have realised shoving thousands around on these big ships needs different handling.

MSC have a different system as well, they have 3 dining set dining seatings in the main Bella / Fantastica restaurant. Freedom dining is available in Aurea and Yacht Club grades.

 

The set dining times don’t suit everyone and the middle one is the most popular with Brits but the Spanish and Portuguese etc prefer the late on which is I believe 9.30pm.

 

You can’t have thousands of people all expecting to eat when they want, it won’t work. If everyone turns up late one evening then some will not be seated. The idea of all freedom sounds good but perhaps it is just not practical in reality. It’s also an oxymoron given the reports of queuing, nothing freedom about it.

 

Celebrity only let so many have freedom as well.

 

Perhaps P&O should revert to some seating for dinner and offer the choice as a perk for select fares or early bookers.

 

[Snow Hill]

5 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

A VPN is a Virtual Private Network, apart from your contact details and payment given they know nothing else about you. Traffic passing through a VPN is encrypted and goes via proxy servers across the world making it difficult for you data to be stolen whilst it is in transit, something that can happen when you connect to an unprotected public network. The vast majority of VPN providers don’t store any details of sites visit or where you accessed those sites from.

 

https://surfshark.com/blog/wifi-vpn

When I worked from home 12 years ago I used a private VPN to access the company’s internal network it allowed me to access data from home whilst protecting it from “prying eyes”. My work laptop always signed in via the VPN regardless of where I was, be that an airport or at home, I continued that security into my private life when I retired. 
 

 

It is now the norm for people working remotely to use a VPN

[Interestedcruisefan]

38 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

ICF that is exactly how P&O have operated on all their ships since freedom dining became an option.  It is handed out at the door to the restaurant. The people in the photograph Devon posted are queuing for their pager if you read his posts. Also the app queue people were being sent away with pagers too.  The picture isn't black and white (sic) it doesn't tell the full story as Devon explains.

 

As you can see above I cannot fathom`why anyone who COULD use the app to join a virtual queue would instead waste many minutes queuing to be given a pager that then puts them at the back of the virtual queue

 

And then leave the queue only to return again when their pager tells them

 

Now I wonder what would happen if someone was allocated to explain to the queue on the right each night how to use the app and help those who have phones to use it so they can leave the queue without having to queue just to get a pager

 

I guess the longer the queue on the right the more likely someone might choose to use the app if prompted to politely?

 

Can't do any harm trying?

 

Surely some would take advantage and over the course of the cruise less people queue for pagers?

 

On the point about the virtual queue being given pagers at times. It makes no sense. Something broken there. Which kind of was my original comment when seeing devonuks photo

 

Allowing walk ins to the extent they are isnt really helping anyone in terms of queuing at least

 

 

Anyway here's a radical plan below:

 

 

Maybe freedom dining should be rebranded to

 

"Freedom Dining Using Our App On Your Phone"

(If you book this it will keep any physical queuing time for dining to a bare minimum for you)

 

And they have another type called

 

"Freedom Dining Using A Pager" (This may entail more queuing  time than using the app on your phone as you may have to queue to receive your pager from designated areas at busy times)

 

Finally

 

"Freedom Walk In Dining" (no need to use the app or pager but you better like queuing whilst others on the left walk straight past you! Lol)

 

I'm only half serious there!

 

But perhaps P and O DO need to promote the app better and people book cruises knowing what the advantages are if they book prepared to use the app. So maybe more will commit to use the app before they even join the cruise

 

Just an idea!!

 

Also maybe have incentives for using the app.

 

People can stil choose not to use it but start to reward those that use it somehow

 

The more who choose to use the app over time the shorter the physical queues for all concerned

 

So promote and educate the app better and find clever ways to reward people for using it 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Interestedcruisefan]

19 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

MSC have a different system as well, they have 3 dining set dining seatings in the main Bella / Fantastica restaurant. Freedom dining is available in Aurea and Yacht Club grades.

 

The set dining times don’t suit everyone and the middle one is the most popular with Brits but the Spanish and Portuguese etc prefer the late on which is I believe 9.30pm.

 

You can’t have thousands of people all expecting to eat when they want, it won’t work. If everyone turns up late one evening then some will not be seated. The idea of all freedom sounds good but perhaps it is just not practical in reality. It’s also an oxymoron given the reports of queuing, nothing freedom about it.

 

Celebrity only let so many have freedom as well.

 

Perhaps P&O should revert to some seating for dinner and offer the choice as a perk for select fares or early bookers.

 

That's spot on

 

And bear in mind the biggest complaints ive seen re Arvia to date are about queues at busy times

 

[Harry Peterson]

21 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

A VPN is a Virtual Private Network, apart from your contact details and payment given they know nothing else about you. Traffic passing through a VPN is encrypted and goes via proxy servers across the world making it difficult for you data to be stolen whilst it is in transit, something that can happen when you connect to an unprotected public network. The vast majority of VPN providers don’t store any details of sites visit or where you accessed those sites from.

 

https://surfshark.com/blog/wifi-vpn

I understand how they operate - indeed I use one occasionally with our Netflix subscription to access films from other territories not showing in the UK. 
 

But ultimately, you’re trusting your personal data with an almost invisible company with absolutely no accountability, and no assurance that it’s handling that data properly. I’m not remotely concerned about them knowing which sites I visit, but I am about personal data which could be used for banking, identity or other fraud. I know they all claim to be absolutely secure, but it’s impossible, because of their very nature and locations, to be sure of that. For the same reason I avoid all public wifi systems when using personal data.

[Fionboard]

Simple solution for me - only cruise on ships with fixed dining. More civilised, stress free, sociable and no queuing. Happy to pay more for this.

[Megabear2]

22 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

 

As you can see above I cannot fathom`why anyone who COULD use the app to join a virtual queue would instead waste many minutes queuing to be given a pager that then puts them at the back of the virtual queue

 

And then leave the queue only to return again when their pager tells them

 

Now I wonder what would happen if someone was allocated to explain to the queue on the right each night how to use the app and help those who have phones to use it so they can leave the queue without having to queue just to get a pager

 

I guess the longer the queue on the right the more likely someone might choose to use the app if prompted to politely?

 

Can't do any harm trying?

 

Surely some would take advantage and over the course of the cruise less people queue for pagers?

 

On the point about the virtual queue being given pagers at times. It makes no sense. Something broken there. Which kind of was my original comment when seeing devonuks photo

 

Allowing walk ins to the extent they are isnt really helping anyone in terms of queuing at least

 

 

Anyway here's a radical plan below:

 

 

Maybe freedom dining should be rebranded to

 

"Freedom Dining Using Our App On Your Phone"

(If you book this it will keep any physical queuing time for dining to a bare minimum for you)

 

And they have another type called

 

"Freedom Dining Using A Pager" (This may entail more queuing  time than using the app on your phone as you may have to queue to receive your pager from designated areas at busy times)

 

Finally

 

"Freedom Walk In Dining" (no need to use the app or pager but you better like queuing whilst others on the left walk straight past you! Lol)

 

I'm only half serious there!

 

But perhaps P and O DO need to promote the app better and people book cruises knowing what the advantages are if they book prepared to use the app. So maybe more will commit to use the app before they even join the cruise

 

Just an idea!!

 

Also maybe have incentives for using the app.

 

People can stil choose not to use it but start to reward those that use it somehow

 

The more who choose to use the app over time the shorter the physical queues for all concerned

 

So promote and educate the app better and find clever ways to reward people for using it 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Getting the pager doesn't (or at least it doesn't on other ships) put you at the back of the queue.  What it does is register you on the restaurant computer as waiting for a table and needing to be sat.  You do not become secondary to the app users.  The app users being given pagers is purely to try to clear the area which becomes overcrowded and not moving.  I've never come across this type of queuing with or without apps, telephones or medallions on any of ships, P&O or  anyone else. 

 

The app is very vague as well. It doesn't say you've got a reservation at x time, it merely indicates a time your table should be due, it's not a reservation per se such as you mentioned for land based restaurants.  The app is an algorithm apparently working on the idea a certain number of people will want to dine between two times and it allocates accordingly.

 

The most popular times to dine are from 7.00 to 7.30pm onwards judging by comments on these boards.  This would tally with on club dining the early sitting is too early for many while others state 8.30 too late.  With only freedom dining on offer it is inevitable that only having two MDRs will cause pressure points between 7.00 and 8.30pm.

 

If Auntie Ethel and her ilk go to dine at 6.30pm regardless of using the app she's taking up a seat in the restaurant in the lead up to the big rush.  There's an interesting article this month on one of the US travel forums about RC new menus and aim to make the whole dinner experience last 75 minutes.  Even by shortening the menu and adding staff they haven't been able to meet that target.  They have concluded 90 minutes minimum is required.

 

As you work in the food/dining industry you are of course familiar with table turning, ie a set amount of time for your tables to be occupied.  Ironically you have no control over how long your tables are occupied with freedom dining, with club dining and set times you did. Auntie Ethel may therefore enjoy a very long leisurely meal, maybe with a large group she's just met and occupy your table way past 90 minutes.

 

I note you say you pay to jump queues, I assume like the Disney Genie.  If you read into this in depth you will see that it's introduction has had a detrimental effect on a lot of visitors to Disney who simply are stopping travelling to parks due to the artificial queues of 4 hours plus the procedure is causing at peak times.  Park admissions are as a result going down with the comtomitent effect the prices are going up despite the new add on revenue source. One person paying a million bucks once probably sounds good but Chuck x 100,000 visiting multiple times will raise more cash over the long term.

 

Eglesbrech mentioned the MSC approach and you marked it as a like.  You referred elsewhere to the cheap fares.  If P&O adopted the MSC idea (which I personally think is good) late bookers such as you indicate would have to take what's on offer at the time of booking - which always happened before Arvia/Iona appeared with their freedom free for all.  Progress might be one step too far on this occasion?

 

Yorkypete makes a point elsewhere that the buffet on Iona was extremely busy at night.  I'd be interested in whether this is purely by choice or due to difficulties actually getting in to the main dining rooms.

 

[Snow Hill]

47 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I understand how they operate - indeed I use one occasionally with our Netflix subscription to access films from other territories not showing in the UK. 
 

But ultimately, you’re trusting your personal data with an almost invisible company with absolutely no accountability, and no assurance that it’s handling that data properly. I’m not remotely concerned about them knowing which sites I visit, but I am about personal data which could be used for banking, identity or other fraud. I know they all claim to be absolutely secure, but it’s impossible, because of their very nature and locations, to be sure of that. For the same reason I avoid all public wifi systems when using personal data.

They are not invisible, they are often public quoted companies, Symantec who own Norton are a NASDAQ listed company, they also provide a VPN, ExpressVPN which I use is owned by a U.K. based CyberSecurity Company, so hardly invisible. They don’t handle any of your data, they don’t even store the card details of what you pay the subscription with. 
 

 

[Josy1953]

3 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I've turned it on its head and given solutions above

 

I just did a quick Google. In 2021 in the UK 88 per cent of adults had smartphones.

 

That figure will have increased by now. 

 

And let's be honest when you look at the photo Devonuk provided I simply do not accept that all those people queuing on the right don't have smartphones?

 

I rarely use my phone on board the ship, it stays in the safe in the room.  I do take it ashore just in case we have some sort of emergency and need to contact someone.

[Beckett]

1 hour ago, lincslady said:

I'm Auntie Ethel, and although obviously I use a computer for emails, websites and ordering online - and Cruise Critic - I have not got a smart phone, and am unwilling to carry a phone or similar around.  However, I think anyone cold cope with a pager, if it could be handed to you not at the restaurant door for obvious reasons, it could be coped with by even the most ancient and technophobe of us.

I'm Auntie Ethel too - up to a point. I do have a smart phone and am fairly proficient with technology. I use apps where I have to but not through choice.

 

I'm booked on Britannia in October on first sitting. I'm not interested in freedom dining.

 

When cruising alone I turn my phone off once on board, put it in the safe and leave izt there until disembarkation. If I miss a few shows whilst on board because I haven't used the app, so be it. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it's my choice to holiday this way and I would hate my choice to be taken away from me.

 

All us Ethels should still have a say!

 

Best wishes. Jane.xx

[zap99]

5 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

I rarely use my phone on board the ship, it stays in the safe in the room.  I do take it ashore just in case we have some sort of emergency and need to contact someone.

We join the virtual queue when getting ready for dinner.  Sometimes we are told the table is ready before we leave the cabin, in which case the phone gets left behind, if not it goes with us. No big deal. If folk don't want to use the app, fine, but they should queue in a separate area.

[Bill Y]

2 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

You can’t have thousands of people all expecting to eat when they want, it won’t work. If everyone turns up late one evening then some will not be seated. The idea of all freedom sounds good but perhaps it is just not practical in reality. It’s also an oxymoron given the reports of queuing, nothing freedom about it.

 

Celebrity only let so many have freedom as well.

 

Perhaps P&O should revert to some seating for dinner and offer the choice as a perk for select fares or early bookers.

 

With Ships getting bigger you would think more choice, so with four MDRs on Iona why remove the Club MDR facility. Then came Our Vera and the penny dropped. The decades old principal of every passenger having a dinning place at a set time every night appears to be wasteful as it requires more places that are not revenue generating.

 

The not so hidden agenda appears to be cut club dinning, reduce choice and quality in the remaining MDRs (as has been reported) and to annoy passengers by making them jump through hoops and queue so the end result is to push people towards the extra cost dinning.

 

I have not heard of people having to queue for their bookings in speciality restaurants. Are P & O taking us all for mugs?

Edited January 20, 2023 by Bill Y

[Megabear2]

23 minutes ago, zap99 said:

We join the virtual queue when getting ready for dinner.  Sometimes we are told the table is ready before we leave the cabin, in which case the phone gets left behind, if not it goes with us. No big deal. If folk don't want to use the app, fine, but they should queue in a separate area.

I agree but that's down to P&O.  It does seem highly logical but they ask you to check in at your restaurant and historically they told you to walk up to the dining room and then gave you the pager.  Someone needs to look at that not cause friction between the tech whizzkids and Auntie Ethel neither of whom are right or wrong.  

 

I'm guessing they've been caught out particularly on Arvia with only two dining rooms.  How many does each seat, not having been onboard her yet I don't know? It still remains asking the volume of passengers to eat in only two venues is a big gamble if you've a reduced capacity.

[Harry Peterson]

Auntie Ethel is asking, for a friend of course, where that really nice, all inclusive, luxurious even, wonderfully relaxing, haute cuisine, Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company went.

 

And who’s hiding the deck quoits?

[zap99]

11 minutes ago, Bill Y said:

With Ships getting bigger you would think more choice, so with four MDRs on Iona why remove the Club MDR facility. Then came Our Vera and the penny dropped. The decades old principal of every passenger having a dinning place at a set time every night appears to be wasteful as it requires more places that are not revenue generating.

 

The not so hidden agenda appears to be cut club dinning, reduce choice and quality in the remaining MDRs (as has been reported) and to annoy passengers by making them jump through hoops and queue so the end result is to push people towards the extra cost dinning.

 

I have not heard of people having to queue for their bookings in speciality restaurants. Are P & O taking us all for mugs?

Often you can't get bookings in speciality restaurants. Just like on land, things fill up ,so you need to be flexible,just like on land.

[Megabear2]

13 minutes ago, Bill Y said:

I have not heard of people having to queue for their bookings in speciality restaurants. Are P & O taking us all for mugs?

The speciality restaurants offer a confirmed booking at a set time, the app doesn't.  The two new ships are only just beginning to sail at full capacity after the pandemic cut it. P&O are therefore beginners in handling this unlike say RC who've had this 6,000 plus passenger ships sailing for years now.  It's interesting no other line appears to be going all freedom on ships of this size. There are a few of this class around the world now but it seems only these two are having problems in this area.

[Host Sharon]

2 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

The speciality restaurants offer a confirmed booking at a set time, the app doesn't.  The two new ships are only just beginning to sail at full capacity after the pandemic cut it. P&O are therefore beginners in handling this unlike say RC who've had this 6,000 plus passenger ships sailing for years now.  It's interesting no other line appears to be going all freedom on ships of this size. There are a few of this class around the world now but it seems only these two are having problems in this area.

When I travelled on Harmony and Anthem they had, what they called, dynamic dining. It was an absolute nightmare and I lost the will to live trying to book dining venues at home. Two main problems - I was travelling with a friend who lives 100 miles away but only one passenger could log in at a time. The second issue was trying to line up times for dining with times for entertainment so they didn't clash. In the end we had to change all our pre-booked dining times if we wanted to see the big shows. It was soon abandoned. 

[UKsatcom]

I am sure the dining issue will rage on and on.

 

Meanwhile a few pages back I mentioned "erroneous" charges to registered credit/debit cards post disembarkation.

 

A few of you responded and it was obvious this had been happening , unnoticed , for some time and with other carriers.

 

After requesting a refund post Arvia cruise I had the opportunity to bring it up with senior management The matter is to be investigated.

Meanwhile.....did anyone else get this email from P&O this morning?

 

.

You may have noticed that an additional charge has been made against the credit/debit card used for payment of your on board account, following your cruise on board Arvia.  We are sorry for any inconvenience caused and would like to assure you that any incorrect charges have been refunded and will be credited to your card, if you have any questions please contact your card provider. Once again, we do apologise for any confusion caused.  Kind regards, P&O Cruises   Not had one of these before and suspect could be as a result of my discussion .   Check you accounts ..... look for that extra unaccountable charge and please let me know if you find one.

[Ardennais]

5 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I bet a lot of people who complain about the app have probably never even tried it

 

Before using it for the first  time on Britannia I was wary of it

 

But wouldn't want to do a cruise without the app now

 

I abhor queuing for anything on my holidays

I’ll be on Iona next month and will the the app a go. 
However, Princess Medallion was very hit and miss for us last June. Some things worked, others didn’t. We had to queue several times for assistance with the app (and the queues were very long) and even the techies on the helpdesk had to ask their supervisors at times! Signal was poor in some places in the ship and non-existent in some spots. 

[purplesea]

3 hours ago, lincslady said:

I'm Auntie Ethel, and although obviously I use a computer for emails, websites and ordering online - and Cruise Critic - I have not got a smart phone, and am unwilling to carry a phone or similar around.  However, I think anyone cold cope with a pager, if it could be handed to you not at the restaurant door for obvious reasons, it could be coped with by even the most ancient and technophobe of us.

My mother is in a similar situation, except  she doesn't even have a mobile phone. Why? Because where she lives she can't get a moblie signal without going for a walk to the end of her road.

I haven't been on Arvia, yet, but we were on Iona and the app was not helpful as I could only use it to book for us, and not Mum in another cabin. For our evening meals we just asked the desk to book us the same table at the same time each evening, and the shows or anything else than needed booking we got reception to book for us.

I have do have a smartphone but am not attached to it, it gets used for calls, texts and photos. Everything else online tends to be done on my laptop.

[Britboys]

Having just caught up on the last 2 - 3 pages, boy am I glad I only sail on the two smallest ships and opt for Club Dining 😀.

Re the idea of handing out pagers at bars etc, whilst I can see the sense in that, we are talking P&O IT here. I could forsee countless people turning up at the same time that have all been allocated the same table.....

[Selbourne]

5 minutes ago, purplesea said:

I haven't been on Arvia, yet, but we were on Iona and the app was not helpful as I could only use it to book for us, and not Mum in another cabin. 

I was under the impression that you could reserve a table for more people than were in your cabin? Can someone confirm one way or the other? We are going on Iona with both our adult children and I was rather hoping that I could leave it to them to book a table for all of us each evening. Like many people, one thing that I love about cruising is not having to carry a phone around with me. It goes in the cabin safe once we leave Southampton and only comes out on port days!