NCL changing itineraries for non-emergency reasons after final payment

[wcook]

16 hours ago, cruiseny4life said:

32 days in NYC parking

I’m not sure there’s enough money in the world to cover that bill. 

[PTC DAWG]

16 hours ago, DaCruiseBug said:

 Or maybe the Government of the country they have their largest operations in and the country where Americans buy their tickets. Did you not learn anything with Covid? Ship registration didn't impede the US government from halting their operations in the US.

Jus what we need, more US Fed involvement. They can’t screw in a light bulb. 

 

I will also add, that if you are dead set on a particular port, book a flight and stay there..Things can and do change..across all cruise lines.  

Edited January 19, 2023 by PTC DAWG

[Travelling2Some]

2 hours ago, eileeshb said:

I haven't looked at the Baltics itineraries lately but there are 2 ports with issues when there's high winds and one of those is/was an embarkation port so they have to wait for the winds to behave instead of skipping it which can lead to the next port stop getting shortened or skipped. 

Thank you for the heads-up.  Which ports did you have in mind?  The cruise we have booked originates in Copenhagen and terminates in Stockholm.  Those are the most important to us and seem "tamper proof" as people will have bought their airfare. The itinerary is very port-heavy with no sea days at all.  (Warnemunde, Gdynia, Klaieda, Riga, Helsinki, Kotka, Visby, and Tallinn).  Tallinn is important to us and I would be sorry to miss Visby.  Some of the others were "time fillers" I think to fill in for St. Petersburg.

[eileeshb]

16 minutes ago, Travelling2Some said:

Thank you for the heads-up.  Which ports did you have in mind?  The cruise we have booked originates in Copenhagen and terminates in Stockholm.  Those are the most important to us and seem "tamper proof" as people will have bought their airfare. The itinerary is very port-heavy with no sea days at all.  (Warnemunde, Gdynia, Klaieda, Riga, Helsinki, Kotka, Visby, and Tallinn).  Tallinn is important to us and I would be sorry to miss Visby.  Some of the others were "time fillers" I think to fill in for St. Petersburg.

Warnemunde was the one that some passengers embarked at and was affected by high winds, and I think Stockholm city was the other but there is another pier/port outside the city that is accessible to the ship in windy conditions. I think they've switched to that pier entirely for the Breakaway/+ class ships and then run a shuttle bus into the city from there. Basically there's a narrow channel on the approach to Warnemunde and Stockholm so if the wind is from the wrong direction on the big ships you could wind up with an evergiven situation. 

 

[Travelling2Some]

4 minutes ago, eileeshb said:

Warnemunde was the one that some passengers embarked at and was affected by high winds, and I think Stockholm city was the other but there is another pier/port outside the city that is accessible to the ship in windy conditions. I think they've switched to that pier entirely for the Breakaway/+ class ships and then run a shuttle bus into the city from there. Basically there's a narrow channel on the approach to Warnemunde and Stockholm so if the wind is from the wrong direction on the big ships you could wind up with an evergiven situation. 

 

Thank you again.  I should have mentioned that we are on the Dawn, an older, smaller ship.  I would not care if we skipped Warnemunde since we would not be making the long trek to Berlin from there.  I know alternate port you mean for Stockholm.  (Nynasham, which I probably misspelled.)  We will be spending 5 days in Stockholm after the cruise so no problem there either.  Feeling better now about making final payment on this one!

[DCGuy64]

You know, on the one hand, I wholeheartedly agree that because ports can and do change, it's unwise to book a cruise solely on that basis. But on the other hand, what's the point of booking any cruise at all if the itinerary is subject to change? I think if I paid to fly to Paris and they dropped me in Frankfurt, I'd be pretty p***ed off. And I don't think demanding people book a land based vacation is realistic, either. Having done both, I prefer cruising because I like to go places (plural, as in placeS, not one place). It is possible both to be aware of the potential for port changes AND be sympathetic to those who were disappointed by them. I don't really think it's a binary choice.

[PTC DAWG]

3 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

You know, on the one hand, I wholeheartedly agree that because ports can and do change, it's unwise to book a cruise solely on that basis. But on the other hand, what's the point of booking any cruise at all if the itinerary is subject to change? I think if I paid to fly to Paris and they dropped me in Frankfurt, I'd be pretty p***ed off. And I don't think demanding people book a land based vacation is realistic, either. Having done both, I prefer cruising because I like to go places (plural, as in placeS, not one place). It is possible both to be aware of the potential for port changes AND be sympathetic to those who were disappointed by them. I don't really think it's a binary choice.

I tend to agree, but changes can and do happen.  The Sea can be a very unforgiving place…I have also been on flights diverted due to weather-equipment issues. 

 

I agree on the cruising aspect of traveling, I enjoy it too.  Seeing different places etc..

Edited January 19, 2023 by PTC DAWG

[NYMama]

They just modified the itinerary for my cruise a third time and we are still 30 days out.  If we do end up with unfavorable weather,  I fully expect the cruise to be a cruise to Port Canaveral with multiple days at sea in international waters.

[cruiseny4life]

1 minute ago, NYMama said:

They just modified the itinerary for my cruise a third time and we are still 30 days out.  If we do end up with unfavorable weather,  I fully expect the cruise to be a cruise to Port Canaveral with multiple days at sea in international waters.

You might get lucky and have a few hours in Miami! (sarcasm)

[mjkacmom]

4 hours ago, wcook said:

I’m not sure there’s enough money in the world to cover that bill. 

Actually 14 days is $400, since you pay when you enter I believe 32 nights would only be $400.

[Sugar Magnolia]

22 minutes ago, NYMama said:

They just modified the itinerary for my cruise a third time and we are still 30 days out.  If we do end up with unfavorable weather,  I fully expect the cruise to be a cruise to Port Canaveral with multiple days at sea in international waters.

Sorry to hear. Which ship and itinerary was just modified?

I am sailing on the Prima again in March out of Port Canaveral but have no affinity to any one port, so NCL can just go ahead and surprise me. I enjoy the feeling of not knowing where I am when I wake up in the morning. 

 

To follow up on @cruiseny4life ‘s sarcasm…it’s a terrific time of the year to visit Miami. 
 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Sugar Magnolia

[kitkat343]

43 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

You know, on the one hand, I wholeheartedly agree that because ports can and do change, it's unwise to book a cruise solely on that basis. But on the other hand, what's the point of booking any cruise at all if the itinerary is subject to change? I think if I paid to fly to Paris and they dropped me in Frankfurt, I'd be pretty p***ed off. And I don't think demanding people book a land based vacation is realistic, either. Having done both, I prefer cruising because I like to go places (plural, as in placeS, not one place). It is possible both to be aware of the potential for port changes AND be sympathetic to those who were disappointed by them. I don't really think it's a binary choice.

This is my perspective - if there is an emergency, of course the cruise lines need to have the ability to modify the itinerary without penalty.  But I do think they have an obligation to minimize the number of changes that would hurt passengers by limiting them only to emergencies and if there are problems like those in the Dominican Republic, after a couple of months it stops being an emergency and starts being something you need to notify passengers about prior to final payment so they can decide if they want to keep that cruise or sail on a different one.  And once you cancel a port stop (like on the 1/8 getaway) you absolutely cannot continue to advertise that cruise as visiting that port, especially to passengers booking directly with NCL on the phone.

 

And in terms of the Baltic Cruise, we minimized the chances of being diverted in Stockholm by sailing on the Star instead of the nicer, more modern ships Princess had on that itinerary (we had a 3 year old with us and I was worried about being so far from Stockholm if he got overwhelmed).  Sailing on a smaller ship increased the chances of us making it (which thankfully we did and even more thankfully my son loved all the stops on the baltic cruise) but it would have been quite understandable if we had needed to be diverted due to weather.  But when they know a port is a problem 10 months before we cruise and don't tell us until after final payment that seems different although technically both are allowed under their contract.

[mking8288]

Set aside those xx pages of contract terms in fine prints written & designed by lawyers for a moment, perception is important when you are promoting and selling a product and/or services to the customer, client, consumer or prospect.  

 

It looks as if NCL has been not been responsive and in good faith, rather - handling matters in a less than trust-worthy manner after final payment is made, and, that perception seemed valid in the eyes of some but absolutely not for others.  Using the contract signed as an escape and being evasive, in my books, isn't acceptable while others are free to disagree.   Later, it looks, perception-wise, that NCL isn't making decisions ahead (in advance) not in good faith and using vague excuses ... feel free to disagree, strictly my "biased" opinion and we've sailed mainly NCL for 2 decades and own their stocks. 

 

Just got words on another (current) Getaway Live Report, indirectly, posted by a CC'er on the Feb 26, 2023 sailing (12 nights So Carib) that 2 of their port stops now has modified time departure/arrival ... 

Getaway had this week's DR stop at Taino Bay-Amber Cove cancelled entirely.  This Friday's Getaway 12 nighters has San Juan's stay reduced by 1 hour, I called it woohoo, an extra hour at sea  /s

 

This aren't "emergency reasons" by any means - I have no problem whatsover if the bridge needs to turn the ship around for a Medevac, stop and do figure 8's at the request of USCG to do a SAR due to MOB, or ship diverted for high sea rescue of refugees, in the highest worldwide tradition of mariners at sea, and, if for whatever reasons, one of the engine lost its sealing rings or the thruster damaged, etc.  These changes aren't and reflect poor management planning, and especially after final payment or cancel has long passed, at 120+ days ...  NCL loyalists and cheerleaders will defend, fine ... and why not agree to disagree, not so hard, isn't it.  

 

I think, maybe, one possible solution, sort of, is that to review third-party trip/travel insurance and make sure it has CFAR coverage - still, vacation cancelled and other pre- and post- cruise arrangements are then disrupted, but at least one isn't captive or held sort of being involuntary hostage.  The overall package costs will go up for sure.  Just don't get insurance thru NCL, go independent or else you'll end us with more FCC.  

 

 

 

[Barb Nahoumi]

On 1/17/2023 at 6:55 PM, Travelling2Some said:

We lost 3 ports on the Sun transatlantic in November.  Different circumstances for each.  (1) Bermuda dropped by popular demand, everyone on the roll call was pleased not to have to comply with all their covid requirements since we were headed for Europe and Bermuda was inconsequential to most.  (2) Horta (Azores) where any reasonable person could see that the seas were too rough that day to consider a tender port. and (3) Madeira dropped with no explanation whatsoever.  This made very little sense since it lay directly in our path between the Azores and the Canary Islands.  We were to be the only ship in port that day, the seas were calm and the weather beautiful.  Speculation was that NCL just wanted to take our day in Madeira away so they could slow the ship and save money on fuel.  First two port losses very acceptable.  Last one not.

Madeira is a beautiful island.  My husband and I went there by plane and spent 10  days.  Very much worth a visit.

[NYMama]

2 hours ago, Sugar Magnolia said:

Sorry to hear. Which ship and itinerary was just modified?

I am sailing on the Prima again in March out of Port Canaveral but have no affinity to any one port, so NCL can just go ahead and surprise me. I enjoy the feeling of not knowing where I am when I wake up in the morning. 

 

To follow up on @cruiseny4life ‘s sarcasm…it’s a terrific time of the year to visit Miami. 
 

February 18th 8 night Getaway cruise out of NYC.  First itinerary change was to drop Norfolk, VA and Bermuda with an addition of Miami.  Then they dropped Miami, added an overnight in PC, and added Bermuda back.  Now they shortened port times in PC and Bermuda.  
 

I will have fun no matter what, but so many itinerary shifts before we are even on the ship, is interesting.

[luv2kroooz]

3 hours ago, Sugar Magnolia said:

Sorry to hear. Which ship and itinerary was just modified?

I am sailing on the Prima again in March out of Port Canaveral but have no affinity to any one port, so NCL can just go ahead and surprise me. I enjoy the feeling of not knowing where I am when I wake up in the morning. 

 

We agree as it relates to the Caribbean ports, too. Been there, done that lots of times. We couldn't care less where we end up and rarely even get off the ship. However, we acknowledge that cruises are big ticket vacations for many and the specific itinerary is a big part of the vacation. I remember our first trip to Ocho Rios and wanting to go to Dunns River Falls, Stingray City in the Caymans, you get the idea.

 

Absent conditions that impact the safety of human life, such as medevac, wind and hurricanes, strikes or unrest in a port (Russia) etc, the itinerary should be adhered to. Better said, we don't support last minute changes made to previously published itineraries in the name of convenience items, like green initiatives, port congestion caused by other NCL operated ships or sister ships. 

 

 

[eileeshb]

Btw in terms of changing itineraries “after final payment “  what is that window for most of you? My deadline for final payment is 30 days before sailing but then my deposit is also non refundable.  If they change itineraries within the 30day window then it’d better be a damn good reason.

 

They changed the arrival time for Victoria on my Alaska cruise but they gave me that update a year before the sail date and it doesn’t make much of a difference on that itinerary anyway. 

[shof515]

15 minutes ago, eileeshb said:

Btw in terms of changing itineraries “after final payment “  what is that window for most of you? My deadline for final payment is 30 days before sailing but then my deposit is also non refundable.  If they change itineraries within the 30day window then it’d better be a damn good reason.

final payment for me is always 120 days before sailings

[eileeshb]

1 minute ago, shof515 said:

final payment for me is always 120 days 

 

In the few years I’ve been cruising it’s mostly been a 30day final payment, at one point briefly it was 60days but it’s always been a non refundable deposit (we do have 14day window for change of mind if booking online thanks to eu rules). 
I did manage to get a deposit transferred to a different booking once before covid, I’m not sure that would be possible these days.

[Sugar Magnolia]

1 hour ago, NYMama said:

February 18th 8 night Getaway cruise out of NYC.  First itinerary change was to drop Norfolk, VA and Bermuda with an addition of Miami.  Then they dropped Miami, added an overnight in PC, and added Bermuda back.  Now they shortened port times in PC and Bermuda.  
 

I will have fun no matter what, but so many itinerary shifts before we are even on the ship, is interesting.

I will be on the 5-day Getaway to Bermuda in February. Hope the cruise doesn’t become a floating hotel to nowhere, but there’s always that potential. 
 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Sugar Magnolia

[mking8288]

For a typical 7 nights NCL cruise, final payment has consistently been at 120 days.  Keep in mind that the cancel date is 1 day earlier than payment. As always, refer to the fineprints.  

 

I remember the older days where different deadlines (longer) applied for holidays and select sailings. YMMV.  

[MoCruiseFan]

On 1/17/2023 at 4:06 PM, kitkat343 said:

There has been a lot of discussion on these boards about NCL changing itineraries after final payment for the Dominican Republic (for those of you who are not familiar please note that NCL ran a ship aground there last March, and is now not docking any mega ships into Taino Bay port.  There is a second port available, Amber Cove, but it is owned by carnival and can hold 2 ships.  If 2 carnival ships are already scheduled on your day in port, you will not be docking there.  On the 1/8 getaway cruise, they cancelled the DR and the morning in Antigua for environmental reasons and replaced the Dr with a sea day.  They did not update their website, and continued to market the cruise as going to the DR and passengers who bought the cruise directly from NCL after 12/20 were not notified of the loss of the DR or morning in Antigua nor were they allowed to cancel the cruise.)

 

I've recently learned that for the Bliss 1/27 sailing to the Panama Canal, the port stops in Nicaragua and Costa Rica were cancelled for safety reasons after final payment (which makes sense in Nicaragua but not for Costa Rica) , and replaced with Acapulco and Jamaica.  The port stop in Panama was changed from a full day and overnight and replaced with 4 pm - 11 pm, knocking out shore excursions.

 

Are there other NCL itineraries that have lost ports for non-emergency reasons?  Was I just lucky in my previous 8 cruises that I'd never heard of this happening unless there was an emergency that forced the cruise line to not follow its schedule?  On the Baltic board we usually advise new cruisers to sail for itinerary, not cruise line.  But if NCL will change the itinerary for reasons other than emergencies (weather, port strikes, actual danger in countries other than Costa Rica) then this advice may need to be changed.

 

 

The thread describing the 1/27 sailing changes:  

 

Tour advice is extremely poor no matter the cruise line.  All line have wording in their cruise contract that states that they can change ports at any time for any reason with no compensation due.  I believe it is paragraph 6a in NCL's contract.  NEVER book just for the itinerary.

 

 

 

 

[shof515]

3 hours ago, Sugar Magnolia said:

I will be on the 5-day Getaway to Bermuda in February. Hope the cruise doesn’t become a floating hotel to nowhere, but there’s always that potential. 
 

i recently got off the Carnival Sunshine a few days ago. It was suppose to be a 4 day cruise to the Bahamas. Heavy gusty winds made it unsafe to dock and other ships were also unable to dock. with the Bahamas being the only port, the cruise was now a cruise to no where. For a short weekend cruise, i dont mind a cruise to no where

[deliver42]

That's a totally different equation. Weather related, not a whim.

[Sugar Magnolia]

17 minutes ago, shof515 said:

i recently got off the Carnival Sunshine a few days ago. It was suppose to be a 4 day cruise to the Bahamas. Heavy gusty winds made it unsafe to dock and other ships were also unable to dock. with the Bahamas being the only port, the cruise was now a cruise to no where. For a short weekend cruise, i dont mind a cruise to no where

 

I am prepared for whatever Mother Nature's fury or NCL's sustainable plans come my way. However, I will be traveling with newbies and unsure how they will fare. I have tried to mentally prepare them for different scenarios, with the Unlimited Adult Beverage Plan being the fall back in any scenario.