Muster Drills

[OnTheJourney]

9 hours ago, Z'Loth said:

And, remember, bad things happen. Anyone remember the Concordia or Viking Sky? So, I take a little offense when someone says "cattle call muster procedures".

Bravo!!  I was on the Viking Sky during the March 23, 2019 event. Everyone here who is downplaying the standard sort of muster drill simply doesn't "get it". Sorry to offend anyone but, unless you've been in some sort of emergency situation onboard a ship, you have no clue what it could be (and is) like. As I said earlier, I totally understand this...'let's get it over with asap" mode of thinking, but I don't view it the same way anymore. Most here probably would feel the same way. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by OnTheJourney

[OnTheJourney]

14 hours ago, davekathy said:

We hope Celebrity never goes back to the old cattle call muster procedures. Current process is sooo much better.  

A repetition of an earlier post...I get your point while totally disagreeing with it. 

[TeeRick]

4 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

Bravo!!  I was on the Viking Sky. Everyone here who is downplaying the standard sort of muster drill simply doesn't "get it". Sorry to offend anyone but, unless you've been there, you have no clue what it could be (and is) like. 

I was responding to the OP's simple question about e-Muster.  I don't think many here are downplaying the importance of a Muster drill and sorry to hear of your experience.  

[OnTheJourney]

TR...I have no problem whatsoever with your earlier post!  Sorry if something appeared to convey otherwise. I'm more concerned about the cruise lines trying to make the drill as easy and convenient as possible since I'm just not sure that doing so has the same sort of impact as actually being out there AT the muster station. Otherwise, realistically, how many people - after viewing the drill either in one's stateroom or some other room on the ship - will actually even take the time to find out where their muster station is? During the Sky event, DW held it together much better than I did. I admittedly had no idea - at least initially - where to go or what to do in the anxiety of the moment, and that was after actually holding the lifevest and having to put it on during the drill - at least I recall it that way. Too many trips since to remember every detail, except for the day of the emergency. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by OnTheJourney

[TeeRick]

1 minute ago, OnTheJourney said:

TR...I have no problem whatsoever with your earlier post!  Sorry if something appeared to convey otherwise. I'm more concerned about the cruise lines trying to make the drill as easy and convenient as possible since I'm just not sure that doing so has the same sort of impact as actually being out there AT the muster station. Otherwise, realistically, how many people - after viewing the drill either in one's stateroom or some other room on the ship - will actually even take the time to find out where their muster station is? During the Sky event, DW held it together much better than I did. I admittedly had no idea - at least initially - where to go or what to do in the anxiety of the moment. 

No problem.  I did not mean to imply anything either.  In my previous (unretired) life, I used to run site operations for a major company.  I agree with you.  There is nothing like actual, realistic drilling to be prepared for emergencies.  For both staff and passengers.  

[davekathy]

16 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

TR...I have no problem whatsoever with your earlier post!  Sorry if something appeared to convey otherwise. I'm more concerned about the cruise lines trying to make the drill as easy and convenient as possible since I'm just not sure that doing so has the same sort of impact as actually being out there AT the muster station. Otherwise, realistically, how many people - after viewing the drill either in one's stateroom or some other room on the ship - will actually even take the time to find out where their muster station is? During the Sky event, DW held it together much better than I did. I admittedly had no idea - at least initially - where to go or what to do in the anxiety of the moment, and that was after actually holding the lifevest and having to put it on during the drill - at least I recall it that way. Too many trips since to remember every detail, except for the day of the emergency. 

Our experiences with RC and Celebrity, after viewing the muster drill (phone or stateroom TV) you report to your assigned muster station to be checked in. 

[OnTheJourney]

8 minutes ago, davekathy said:

you report to your assigned muster station to be checked in. 

Thanks for this....Viking does this as well. We were on the Enchantment and Adventure not too long ago. Can't recall if they did this or not. As I said earlier, I have a fairly unique (and sort of unfortunate) perspective on all this so probably best to keep my trap shut going forward 🤔 Maybe best that they  DON'T get everyone out there all at once anymore cause when I see people goofing off and not paying attention while in those "cattle call" lines you refer to, I can hardly restrain myself. I saw a crew member who was conducting one of those drills actually take a guy's cell phone that was using it after being told not to! Man, he was tough, and no nonsense....but he got the point across. I assume he gave the phone back after the drill!! 

Edited April 8, 2023 by OnTheJourney

[davekathy]

6 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

We were on the Enchantment and Adventure not too long ago. Can't recall if they did this or not. 

RC (fleetwide) also does the muster drill exactly the same way Celebrity does. I believe they started it 2021 during their limited restart. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by davekathy

[OnTheJourney]

We'll be on X in a few weeks - so see how it goes. The drill doesn't bother me so much as hearing the emergency signal. 4 years post-Sky event, DW and I can still be brought to tears everytime they do it. She can barely stand to listen to it. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by OnTheJourney

[davekathy]

1 minute ago, OnTheJourney said:

We'll be on X in a few weeks - so see how it goes. The drill doesn't bother me so much as hearing the emergency signal. 4 years post-Sky event, DW and I can still be brought to tears everytime they do it. She can barely stand to listen to it. 

Speaking only for my wife and I, we prefer the new and much improved way of doing the muster drill.  You will hear the emergency signal when you watch the drill on your phone or stateroom TV. We watch the drill on my phone before leaving the hotel and when we first board the ship we go directly to our assigned muster station and get checked in. Your muster station is listed on your Xpress pass. Or when you first board the ship you are allowed to go directly to your stateroom, pick up your SeaPass cards. At that time you could also view the muster drill on your stateroom TV and then report to your assigned muster station. 

[AC Stew]

I must agree with "OnTheJourney." Muster drills are an absolute necessity, and the dumbing down of a safety briefing for "convenience" is a huge mistake. 

 

Do I like standing on deck in hot/cold weather to see an actual visual of someone putting on a life jacket as opposed to a "convenient" screening on a phone or TV? Heck no! But at least I've been given a real-life visit to my actual muster station. Hopefully, I'll remember. If people choose to chatter or cruise the internet during the briefing, that's on them.

 

Airline and cruise ship safety briefings are indeed similar. For any of my fellow Cruise Critic members who might doubt the importance of paying attention, I could cite many examples of why we should.

 

Over a great many years in Airline Health & Safety, I've read dozens of accident reports. The one that remains permanently stuck in my brain, is the tragic 1977 runway collision of two 747s in Tenerife. When interviewed, two of the few survivors had this to say: "We were traveling with another couple, who were sitting in the row behind us. They joked about not looking at the safety demonstration or looking to identify their closest exit." But the survivors had done just that. During the evacuation, the surviving couple were unable to budge their friends, who sat frozen in their seats. 

 

OK, an aircraft is not a ship, but if we think that being forced to attend an in-person safety briefing is a "Cattle Call", just imagine the chaos of an evacuation. "Negative panic" can always kick in. However, any knowledge that we absorb will increase our chances of getting through it! I really do think that a live safety briefing is better.

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, OnTheJourney said:

Bravo!!  I was on the Viking Sky during the March 23, 2019 event. Everyone here who is downplaying the standard sort of muster drill simply doesn't "get it". Sorry to offend anyone but, unless you've been in some sort of emergency situation onboard a ship, you have no clue what it could be (and is) like. As I said earlier, I totally understand this...'let's get it over with asap" mode of thinking, but I don't view it the same way anymore. Most here probably would feel the same way. 

 

My experience is the fire service and a career evaluating municipal fire service.  Having experience responding to emergencies, the one thing I will say, is they seldom go as planned or as shown on someone's power point slides.   The only way to be in a position to adapt to the situation is training, training, training.   So, yeah, the new muster check-ins are more convenient but certainly less effective.  

 

People talk about the old muster drills being for the crew.  I agree, but doubt that is the only training the crew receives.   

Edited April 8, 2023 by ldubs

[davekathy]

2 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

My experience is the fire service and a career evaluating municipal fire service.  Having responded to several, the one thing I will say, is emergencies seldom go as planned or shown on someone's power point slides.   The only way to be in a position to adapt to the situation is training, training, training.   So, yeah, the new muster check-ins are more convenient but certainly less effective.  

And the I spy video at muster station drill (pre covid) was more effective. No way. That was dumbing down the seriousness of the muster drill. Since SOLAS authorizes the current muster drill...

[AC Stew]

Davekathy: You're highly experienced cruisers and travelers. Not to mention, well-respected contributors to these boards. My above post was to support the OP (my prerogative), as well as provide a related perspective to the topic. I'm quite taken aback that you think people dying in an emergency evacuation is funny.

[ldubs]

3 minutes ago, davekathy said:

And the I spy video at muster station drill (pre covid) was more effective. No way. That was dumbing down the seriousness of the muster drill. Since SOLAS authorizes the current muster drill...

 

I don't know what the I spy video is.   I think SOLAS made a mistake.  Though, I suspect even under the old system a lot of passengers did not take they muster drill seriously.   

[davekathy]

6 minutes ago, AC Stew said:

Davekathy: You're highly experienced cruisers and travelers. Not to mention, well-respected contributors to these boards. My above post was to support the OP (my prerogative), as well as provide a related perspective to the topic. I'm quite taken aback that you think people dying in an emergency evacuation is funny.

Not the intent of the smiley. When I read your post all I could think of was the ridiculous I spy video that Celebrity use to show. Talk about dumbing down a serious issue.  I removed the smiley. 

[NutsAboutGolf]

20 minutes ago, AC Stew said:

I must agree with "OnTheJourney." Muster drills are an absolute necessity, and the dumbing down of a safety briefing for "convenience" is a huge mistake. 

 

Do I like standing on deck in hot/cold weather to see an actual visual of someone putting on a life jacket as opposed to a "convenient" screening on a phone or TV? Heck no! But at least I've been given a real-life visit to my actual muster station. Hopefully, I'll remember. If people choose to chatter or cruise the internet during the briefing, that's on them.

 

Airline and cruise ship safety briefings are indeed similar. For any of my fellow Cruise Critic members who might doubt the importance of paying attention, I could cite many examples of why we should.

 

Over a great many years in Airline Health & Safety, I've read dozens of accident reports. The one that remains permanently stuck in my brain, is the tragic 1977 runway collision of two 747s in Tenerife. When interviewed, two of the few survivors had this to say: "We were traveling with another couple, who were sitting in the row behind us. They joked about not looking at the safety demonstration or looking to identify their closest exit." But the survivors had done just that. During the evacuation, the surviving couple were unable to budge their friends, who sat frozen in their seats. 

 

OK, an aircraft is not a ship, but if we think that being forced to attend an in-person safety briefing is a "Cattle Call", just imagine the chaos of an evacuation. "Negative panic" can always kick in. However, any knowledge that we absorb will increase our chances of getting through it! I really do think that a live safety briefing is better.

 

Absolutely disagree although I do understand where you're coming from but believe you give way too much credit to humanity...Have any muster drill briefing, in an app, live, etc, and then have a surprise test and see how many will pass.  Its only a tiny % of people who were laser focused enough to comprehend and retain a muster drill, you have many seasoned cruiser who feel they already know everything and don't need to pay attention, you might have someone who's already drunk and/or on drugs, you have someone who could have retained the video but got distracted by receiving a text about dinner plans, etc

 

For what I highlighted, if it's even true, to oversimplify it, the non-surviving couple showed the text book example of their instinctual flight or fight response.  They choose NOT to fight.  They didn't need to know what to do as their friends were trying to get them out of the seat and escort them to safety but they stayed in their seats overwhelmed/frozen in fear

 

During the Concordia sinking there's plenty of video out there showing the passengers panicking

[davekathy]

16 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I don't know what the I spy video is.   I think SOLAS made a mistake.  Though, I suspect even under the old system a lot of passengers did not take they muster drill seriously.   

The stupid video that Celebrity use to show for the muster safety drill at your assigned muster stations. Now that was dumbing down the seriousness of the muster drill. The SOLAS approval is way above my paygrade and we just follow the current requirements. What others did or do, well...

[ldubs]

Just now, davekathy said:

The stupid video that Celebrity use to show for the muster safety drill at your assigned muster stations. Now that was dumbing down the seriousness of the muster drill. The SOLAS approval is way above my paygrade and we just follow the current requirements. What others did or do, well...

 

The way you describe they video it sure sounds like it.  They do the same types of things with the flight safety briefings.   I suppose the thinking is the cutesy approach will catch more attention.   I hope it works.   I would say to just keep in mind, folks who have actually experienced emergency situations might have insight worth listening to. 

[davekathy]

1 minute ago, ldubs said:

 

The way you describe they video it sure sounds like it.  They do the same types of things with the flight safety briefings.   I suppose the thinking is the cutesy approach will catch more attention.   I hope it works.   I would say to just keep in mind, folks who have actually experienced emergency situations might have insight worth listening to. 

Don't need that lecture. I haven't discounted, questioned anyone's personal experience(s). Just voicing my opinion that we like the current approved muster drill and hope we never go back to that procedure  of all assigned gather together and putting on the vest. I did get a kick out of those that would actually blow their filthy whistle during the demonstration. 

[AC Stew]

Davekathy: Thank-you. That I Spy video was pathetic.

 

Nutsaboutgolf: Thanks very much for your input. The couple on that 747 who perished because they were "frozen in their seats" is a classic example of "negative panic." Just another term related to the "fight or flight" mechanism. If they'd watched the safety demonstration ... who knows. As I stated earlier in my post, even after watching a live muster drill/ briefing, I acknowledged that I hope I remember! 

 

As Idubs stated in his last post, emergency situations rarely go according to a set plan. And paying attention to a safety briefing is no guarantee; humans never know how we'll actually react. All I've been trying to say is that a live muster/ briefing (if one watches it), could possibly increase chances of dealing with a situation. Even if it's a small chance, we should make it available. Because ... I think that many of us are guilty of running that safety video without even looking at it. But if our physical presence is required, something might stick.

 

Bottom line though, this has been an interesting and useful conversation for all of us. 

 

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

57 minutes ago, ldubs said:

doubt that is the only training the crew receives.   

Bingo. Our muster drills are absolutely NOT the only training the crew receives.

 

Crew have their own drills for mustering and their duties and have to pass a water test - involving turning over a raft, getting into the raft from the water, and pulling others into the raft - every 5 years. If they don't pass, they are relieved of their duties on the ship and sent home (iow - terminated).

[CHEZMARYLOU]

18 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

EMuster uses more staff.  NCL cut a bunch of the entertainment staff, many of whom were tasked with manning the emuster stations.  Unless things have recently changed Disney still does the traditional muster

I can't see how EMuster uses more staff. When everyone had to report to the muster station for the drill there were 4 or more crew members stationed in front of the elevators and stairs on every deck to direct the passengers to their station.  This was in addition to the crew at the station checking off names and doing the demonstration. Now they only have to position crew at the stations to check off names and answer questions, if any. 

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, davekathy said:

Don't need that lecture. I haven't discounted, questioned anyone's personal experience(s). Just voicing my opinion that we like the current approved muster drill and hope we never go back to that procedure  of all assigned gather together and putting on the vest. I did get a kick out of those that would actually blow their filthy whistle during the demonstration. 

 

I didn't mean it to be a lecture, but going back and re-reading I guess it was.  I like the current muster drill for convenience. For life safely not so much.  

[DaKahuna]

2 hours ago, OnTheJourney said:

Bravo!!  I was on the Viking Sky during the March 23, 2019 event. Everyone here who is downplaying the standard sort of muster drill simply doesn't "get it". Sorry to offend anyone but, unless you've been in some sort of emergency situation onboard a ship, you have no clue what it could be (and is) like. As I said earlier, I totally understand this...'let's get it over with asap" mode of thinking, but I don't view it the same way anymore. Most here probably would feel the same way. 

 

I do not see any difference in how making everyone assemble at one time, and wait until everyone is there, and having everyone report individually to a muster station.  Neither of these comes close to preparing you for a real event.  Both are designed to ensure that you know where to do in the event of an emergency - that is all. 

 

Short of having everyone assemble, load into a lifeboat and deploy the boat away from the ship, there is very little else that a cruise company could really do to better prepare people. 

 

I like the way it is now as I do not like to be held hostage to the whims of others who think rules do  not apply to them and show up 15 minutes or longer to the old style drill.