PVSA again

[seaworthy1]

Sorry if this has been asked and answered,  I understand you can't go from one US port to another US port (unless you stop at a "distant" forgien port) on the same ship. What if you go from LA to Vancouver BC on the Summit, spend one night in Vancouver, then take the Edge to Seattle? You are changing ships and you have a day between cruises. Not a true b2b, but close.

 

Another question,  how is Ensenada a forgien port and Vancouver is not?

[RichYak]

14 minutes ago, seaworthy1 said:

Sorry if this has been asked and answered,  I understand you can't go from one US port to another US port (unless you stop at a "distant" forgien port) on the same ship. What if you go from LA to Vancouver BC on the Summit, spend one night in Vancouver, then take the Edge to Seattle? You are changing ships and you have a day between cruises. Not a true b2b, but close.

 

Another question,  how is Ensenada a forgien port and Vancouver is not?

Your "one day in between" should make your itinerary compliant. I would wait for other comments as I'm not fluent enough in PVSA to be sure.

 

What makes you think Vancouver is not a foreign port?

[kayehall]

I do not understand why or what PVSA is?  Seems stupid to me

[cruisestitch]

29 minutes ago, seaworthy1 said:

Sorry if this has been asked and answered,  I understand you can't go from one US port to another US port (unless you stop at a "distant" forgien port) on the same ship. What if you go from LA to Vancouver BC on the Summit, spend one night in Vancouver, then take the Edge to Seattle? You are changing ships and you have a day between cruises. Not a true b2b, but close.

 

Another question,  how is Ensenada a forgien port and Vancouver is not?

Both Ensenada and Vancouver are foreign ports. Neither one is a distant foreign port the law differentiates between ordinary foreign ports and distant foreign ports. But in the scenario you proposed, the PVSA does not come into account at all, because you were on two different ships with a days break in between. 

[Beachin2]

Should be OK.  There is a difference in the PVSA between a foreign port and a "distant" foreign port.  

[cruisestitch]

9 minutes ago, kayehall said:

I do not understand why or what PVSA is?  Seems stupid to me

Google is your friend

[Jim_Iain]

13 minutes ago, kayehall said:

I do not understand why or what PVSA is?  Seems stupid to me

 

Signed into law by President Grover Cleveland, the PVSA requires vessels carrying passengers between two U.S. ports to be U.S. registered and built, and mostly owned and crewed by Americans. It is much like the 1920 Jones Act, except that it applies to passengers instead of merchandise.

 

The act was implemented to protect U.S. jobs and can only be modified or eliminated by congressional action.

[DaKahuna]

44 minutes ago, seaworthy1 said:

Sorry if this has been asked and answered,  I understand you can't go from one US port to another US port (unless you stop at a "distant" forgien port) on the same ship. What if you go from LA to Vancouver BC on the Summit, spend one night in Vancouver, then take the Edge to Seattle? You are changing ships and you have a day between cruises. Not a true b2b, but close.

 

Another question,  how is Ensenada a forgien port and Vancouver is not?

 

You should be okay and PSVA should not apply because you are not going from a USA port to a USA port on either cruise.  Even if you did a B2B you should  be okay as you start in the USA on one and end in Canada and start in Canada on the other and end is USA.  

 

An example of PSVA would be Sailing out of New York to Key West and then to 'Ft Lauderdale, with no stop in any foreign port.  

 

[RichYak]

Just now, DaKahuna said:

Even if you did a B2B you should  be okay as you start in the USA on one and end in Canada and start in Canada on the other and end is USA.

I disagree with this. There have been plenty of reports about non-compliant B2Bs.

[Mark_K]

5 minutes ago, RichYak said:

I disagree with this. There have been plenty of reports about non-compliant B2Bs.

Yes, for PVSA purposes B2Bs count as transporting the passenger from the embarkation port of the first cruise to the debarkation port of the second cruise.

[seaworthy1]

3 minutes ago, Mark_K said:

Yes, for PVSA purposes B2Bs count as transporting the passenger from the embarkation port of the first cruise to the debarkation port of the second cruise.

My thinking is, this is not a true b2b,  two different ships and a day between sailings.  Doesn't the PVSA state "same ship". 

[cruisestitch]

22 minutes ago, DaKahuna said:

 

You should be okay and PSVA should not apply because you are not going from a USA port to a USA port on either cruise.  Even if you did a B2B you should  be okay as you start in the USA on one and end in Canada and start in Canada on the other and end is USA.  

 

 

No, this would not be OK because you are on one ship going from one US port to another, and a Canada stop in between does not satisfy the PVSA. If you are on two different ships, only then you would be fine.

 

 

 

[DaKahuna]

3 minutes ago, cruisestitch said:

 

No, this would not be OK because you are on one ship going from one US port to another, and a Canada stop in between does not satisfy the PVSA. If you are on two different ships, only then you would be fine.

 

 

How would Summit LA to Vancouver and the Edge Vancouver to Seattle not bet two different ships as stated in the OP?  What two US Ports are they sailing between? 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by DaKahuna

[Essiesmom]

It is okay because they are two different ships.  It is also okay because there is a day in between.  Either situation makes it okay.  EM

[cruisestitch]

The OP is OK because there are two different ships, and a day in between. So it is not a back to back situation.

 

but your general statement about back to back’s being OK is too broad.

Edited July 31, 2023 by cruisestitch

[cruisequeen4ever]

It’s my understanding that if you change ships even if it’s the same day you’re OK. It’s when you stay on the same ship that it’s an issue. I’m not an expert on it though.

[Binbrooklady]

So we are already booked on the Soltice next April leaving Honolulu and ending in Vancouver. And staying on for the Alaska B2B, Vancouver to Vancouver. Is this going to be OK?

[seaworthy1]

1 hour ago, cruisestitch said:

Both Ensenada and Vancouver are foreign ports. Neither one is a distant foreign port the law differentiates between ordinary foreign ports and distant foreign ports. But in the scenario you proposed, the PVSA does not come into account at all, because you were on two different ships with a days break in between. 

Thanks, but it was a seperate question.  Ensenada is considered a distant port when sailing California coastals or Hawaii, and it satifies the PVSA requirment. And, it is as close to San Diego as Vancouver is to Seattle, which violates the PVSA.  go figure

 

[hrhdhd]

10 minutes ago, seaworthy1 said:

Thanks, but it was a seperate question.  Ensenada is considered a distant port when sailing California coastals or Hawaii, and it satifies the PVSA requirment. And, it is as close to San Diego as Vancouver is to Seattle, which violates the PVSA.  go figure

Ensenada is not a DISTANT foreign port. All that's needed for a closed-loop cruise is a foreign port, not a DISTANT foreign port, which is required for a non-closed loop cruise (e.g., Miami to Los Angeles).

[cruisestitch]

47 minutes ago, seaworthy1 said:

Thanks, but it was a seperate question.  Ensenada is considered a distant port when sailing California coastals or Hawaii, and it satifies the PVSA requirment. And, it is as close to San Diego as Vancouver is to Seattle, which violates the PVSA.  go figure

 

No Enssnada is not A distant port.    It is a foreign port, but not a distant foreign port, as defined in the act.

[cruisestitch]

58 minutes ago, Binbrooklady said:

So we are already booked on the Soltice next April leaving Honolulu and ending in Vancouver. And staying on for the Alaska B2B, Vancouver to Vancouver. Is this going to be OK?

You are not embarking at one US city and disembarking at a different US city, so the act does not apply

[RichYak]

2 hours ago, DaKahuna said:

 

How would Summit LA to Vancouver and the Edge Vancouver to Seattle not bet two different ships as stated in the OP?  What two US Ports are they sailing between? 

 

The OP is fine because they are sailing on 2 different ships with a day in between. What is NOT ok is your statement below:

 

2 hours ago, DaKahuna said:

 

Even if you did a B2B you should  be okay as you start in the USA on one and end in Canada and start in Canada on the other and end is USA.  

 

"Even if you did a B2B" implies the same ship with same day turnaround in Canada.

[CruisinBanka]

I tried to book B2B cruises on the Edge, an Alaska cruise from Seattle ending in Vancouver then Vancouver to Honolulu, and was denied because they started and ended in US ports even though Vancouver was ending and starting point. What a ridiculous outdated law. 

[WestLakeGirl]

Vancouver was not an ending port and starting port. It was in between the two US cities, your embarkation and disembarkation points. That’s the PVSA denial.

 

These kinds of cabotage laws are enforced in many countries. It’s the reason that United Airlines cannot carry you between London and Birmingham. And why British air cannot take you from New York to Los Angeles.

[lovecruzin]

2 hours ago, Binbrooklady said:

So we are already booked on the Soltice next April leaving Honolulu and ending in Vancouver. And staying on for the Alaska B2B, Vancouver to Vancouver. Is this going to be OK?

Yes, you are ending in Vancouver. If the ship went Hawaii -Vancouver -Seattle, that would be a PVSA violation