Local Residents Reaction To Cruise Ship Passengers

[navybankerteacher]

Cruise passengers tend to provide income to some locals: tour guides, cheap souvenir sellers, less expensive eateries, etc. , while offering nothing except disruption and crowding to everyone else in the community (who happen to pay much/most of the taxes necessary to develop the port facility).

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Cruise passengers tend to provide income to some locals: tour guides, cheap souvenir sellers, less expensive eateries, etc. , while offering nothing except disruption and crowding to everyone else in the community (who happen to pay much/most of the taxes necessary to develop the port facility).

With us, the local benefit often goes to museums. 

[Elaine5715]

Our town had a thing for a few years called "Be A Tourist In Your Own Town" and all the places residents recommend to visitors created extra events.  Many locals for the first time visited some wonderful hometown spots and loved the events.  Fast forward, a new hotel was being proposed in the downtown (first in 30 years) and locals complained "who wants another hotel".  Locals don't see the value of a hotel since they don't need it.  All about perspective and pocketbooks.  

[Harry Lake]

Several years ago we were on an escorted land tour that included Dubrovnik and a gazillion people thronging the streets. We finally broke away and went up a side street/alley. Then another one and finally found a pub where had some lunch and a glass of wine. What a mess. We heard later that UNESCO had threatened them with revocation of the heritage status if they didn't do something about it. It was clearly the cruise ships, multiple ones in a single day. I've heard that it's gotten better so maybe they did. Just an observation.

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, Harry Lake said:

Several years ago we were on an escorted land tour that included Dubrovnik and a gazillion people thronging the streets. We finally broke away and went up a side street/alley. Then another one and finally found a pub where had some lunch and a glass of wine. What a mess. We heard later that UNESCO had threatened them with revocation of the heritage status if they didn't do something about it. It was clearly the cruise ships, multiple ones in a single day. I've heard that it's gotten better so maybe they did. Just an observation.

 

The first time we visited Dubrovnik (by cruise ship) there were no crowds.  The second time some years later it was a zoo.   It was clearly because there were multiple cruise ships in town.   After several more years, we have booked a 2024 cruise that includes a port call in Dubrovnik.  I hope what you hear is true.  Otherwise we might look into excursions outside the old city.  

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

The first time we visited Dubrovnik (by cruise ship) there were no crowds.  The second time some years later it was a zoo.   It was clearly because there were multiple cruise ships in town.   After several more years, we have booked a 2024 cruise that includes a port call in Dubrovnik.  I hope what you hear is true.  Otherwise we might look into excursions outside the old city.  

We were also lucky that it was not mobbed when our cruise was in Dubrovnik, must have been the only ship that day. I can see where multiple ships would be a real problem, but with the ever growing size of ships that most mainstream cruise lines are building, couldn't the point be reached where even one mega ship could cause a mass overcrowding problem?

[Joebucks]

I'm not sure what it is about the act of cruising that makes people think it's like another dimension. Imagine you lived in a major cruise port. Would you be thrilled to see thousands of cruisers every day? Especially if you saved up to live in one of these destination areas. Well you wouldn't. Unless you were a business owner or a very poor person that wouldn't make a living otherwise. The disgust is generally on a sliding scale from how fortunate you are.

 

The whole "it's because of an environmental issue" is such a load. Especially when these same ports have planes flying in every day, buses and other vehicles touring all over the city, large cargo ships bringing in trinkets and tourism supplies, commercial and personal boats all over the water, overdeveloped lands, trash littered everywhere. But that marginally larger cruise ship is what ruined the environment. Using the buzzwords of today, it is a lot easier to call it an environmental concern than to say you don't want poor groups of travelers flooding your city. 

 

The sad reality is the population keeps surging, but these popular spots don't get any bigger. Travel has become easier and cheaper. More and more places are looking to limit the traffic they get. Preferably, by pricing people out. Going green when convenient. 

[navybankerteacher]

10 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

…

 

The sad reality is the population keeps surging, but these popular spots don't get any bigger. Travel has become easier and cheaper. More and more places are looking to limit the traffic they get. Preferably, by pricing people out. Going green when convenient. 

Limiting the size of ships, or total number of passengers, is hardly “pricing people out” - it is simply protecting the environment  (the charm, or culture, or whatever) which attracts visitors in the first place from temporary, overwhelming crowding.

[klfrodo]

I see no problem with communities social engineering the tourism industry to what they desire and their tax base calls for. 

[ldubs]

5 hours ago, ontheweb said:

We were also lucky that it was not mobbed when our cruise was in Dubrovnik, must have been the only ship that day. I can see where multiple ships would be a real problem, but with the ever growing size of ships that most mainstream cruise lines are building, couldn't the point be reached where even one mega ship could cause a mass overcrowding problem?

 

Could be.  First time we were there it was on a ship in the range of 2,800 passengers.   We were the only ship in town.  A ship of 6,000 or 7,000 would definitely add to the load.  My experience with the mega ships of 5,000 or more passengers is limited to a couple of RCI cruises.  One in the Caribbean and one in SE Asia.  We haven't experienced one in the Med, but then would not normally seek that kind of ship for that itinerary.   

[Elaine5715]

11 hours ago, Joebucks said:

I'm not sure what it is about the act of cruising that makes people think it's like another dimension. Imagine you lived in a major cruise port. Would you be thrilled to see thousands of cruisers every day? Especially if you saved up to live in one of these destination areas. Well you wouldn't. Unless you were a business owner or a very poor person that wouldn't make a living otherwise. The disgust is generally on a sliding scale from how fortunate you are.

 

The whole "it's because of an environmental issue" is such a load. Especially when these same ports have planes flying in every day, buses and other vehicles touring all over the city, large cargo ships bringing in trinkets and tourism supplies, commercial and personal boats all over the water, overdeveloped lands, trash littered everywhere. But that marginally larger cruise ship is what ruined the environment. Using the buzzwords of today, it is a lot easier to call it an environmental concern than to say you don't want poor groups of travelers flooding your city. 

 

The sad reality is the population keeps surging, but these popular spots don't get any bigger. Travel has become easier and cheaper. More and more places are looking to limit the traffic they get. Preferably, by pricing people out. Going green when convenient. 

Yep.  No welcome dock for Carnival but come on in, Seabourn..

[cruisemom42]

On 10/22/2023 at 10:18 PM, Szt said:

He told us the difference between our culture and theirs is we live to work. They work to live. He explained time with their families is more important than pleasing a bunch of tourists,

 

I think this is a difference that is hard for Americans to really grasp. Making money isn't the same "be all and end all", but rather is a tool to achieve a satisfactory quality of life without overdoing it. If the quality of life in these ports is suffering, they are not going to look at making a few more dollars (or euros) as a trade-off worth making.

 

Near where I worked for 20 years, there was an outstanding French bakery run by a French ex-pat. He made breakfast pastries and bread, a few traditional desserts for take-out, and served a very limited selection of sandwiches for lunch. He usually closed by 2pm each day. 

 

My company would've liked to hire him to cater breakfast and lunch meetings, but he wasn't interested in the extra business -- didn't want to hire another employee or work longer hours -- despite the almost certainty of a much more lucrative income. Nor did he want to open a larger place or one in a busier area. He was satisfied with what he had.

 

Similarly, one of the most mentioned restaurants in Rome (featured on many travel shows and restaurant round-ups) features a restaurant footprint that seats 20. They are family-owned and offer 2 lunch sittings and 2 dinner sittings, six days a week. They have done this for years and have no intention of moving or expanding. And their prices remain quite reasonable for such a popular place; they could easily charge more, but they don't. I suspect they don't want to aggravate their regular (e.g., local) customers.

 

 

 

 

[Joebucks]

10 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Yep.  No welcome dock for Carnival but come on in, Seabourn..

 

Seabourn ships are basically floating trees. 

 

9 hours ago, klfrodo said:

I see no problem with communities social engineering the tourism industry to what they desire and their tax base calls for. 

 

Personally, I don't see the issue either. I'd just like to see them call it for what it's for. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Joebucks

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

 

Seabourn ships are basically floating trees. …

What is this supposed to mean ? That they are made of wood?
 

Have you sailed on a Seabourn ship?

[Szt]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I think this is a difference that is hard for Americans to really grasp. Making money isn't the same "be all and end all", but rather is a tool to achieve a satisfactory quality of life without overdoing it. If the quality of life in these ports is suffering, they are not going to look at making a few more dollars (or euros) as a trade-off worth making.

 

Near where I worked for 20 years, there was an outstanding French bakery run by a French ex-pat. He made breakfast pastries and bread, a few traditional desserts for take-out, and served a very limited selection of sandwiches for lunch. He usually closed by 2pm each day. 

 

My company would've liked to hire him to cater breakfast and lunch meetings, but he wasn't interested in the extra business -- didn't want to hire another employee or work longer hours -- despite the almost certainty of a much more lucrative income. Nor did he want to open a larger place or one in a busier area. He was satisfied with what he had.

 

Similarly, one of the most mentioned restaurants in Rome (featured on many travel shows and restaurant round-ups) features a restaurant footprint that seats 20. They are family-owned and offer 2 lunch sittings and 2 dinner sittings, six days a week. They have done this for years and have no intention of moving or expanding. And their prices remain quite reasonable for such a popular place; they could easily charge more, but they don't. I suspect they don't want to aggravate their regular (e.g., local) customers.

 

 

 

 

Exactly! It’s annoying that so many Americans look down their noses at cultures that differ from ours. It is embarrassing to me as an American that some tourists act as if locals should grovel at their feet for the money they may spend. 

[Joebucks]

11 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

What is this supposed to mean ? That they are made of wood?
 

Have you sailed on a Seabourn ship?

 

I was being facetious.

 

Mega ships kill the planet. Small, wealthier, ships are green and responsible.

[Szt]

7 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

I was being facetious.

 

Mega ships kill the planet. Small, wealthier, ships are green and responsible.

Better yet we should all sail on private sailing yachts. I hear it’s only a couple hundred thousand for 3 days. 

[JDincalif]

"When the Giant Cruise Ships Came to Town", a five minute New Yorker documentary, gives a glimpse of how the fortunate residents of Gamle Stavanger experience these port days

 

https://youtu.be/XK2F1SeBQXY?feature=shared

Edited October 26, 2023 by JDincalif
Spelling

[9tee2Sea]

I haven't read all the  threads, BUT I think a good port manager could alleviate the "unwelcome cruse ship" mentality.  Schedule only 2 ships per day, with a max number of passengers ( if they allow 5,000 passengers each day, then it can be two ships or 1 mega ship).  Stagger the arrival times, and charge a premium dock fee for the premium times of arrival ( maybe that's why there are more late night arrivals on cruises).  It does seem like many tourists ( especially younger ones..like in the 20's), feel like they have to leave a mark in the world, so they scrawl something stupid into a many thousand years old wall.  Just thoughts from a simple minded cruiser.

[Szt]

We live in a small town between two tourist hubs. Between crowds, traffic and high prices people are starting to look further out and are beginning to “discover” us. The locals are split. Many would be grateful for the money tourism would bring to our economically challenged little town. But others want the town to stay quiet, peaceful with no traffic or crime. Being a realtor, I’m in the former camp of wanting to be “discovered”. 

[lynncarol]

It's not just cruise ships anymore.  It seems since the pandemic, everyone that can possibly do so is traveling.  My sister has lived in Sarasota most of her life.  Apparently the beaches there are one of the new hot spots for tourism.  When my husband and I visited her last winter, traffic in her area was terrible and the four of us couldn't even find a place to go out for lunch.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, lynncarol said:

It's not just cruise ships anymore.  It seems since the pandemic, everyone that can possibly do so is traveling.  My sister has lived in Sarasota most of her life.  Apparently the beaches there are one of the new hot spots for tourism.  When my husband and I visited her last winter, traffic in her area was terrible and the four of us couldn't even find a place to go out for lunch.

Of course - there are several factors at play now:  1) There are  more people on Earth every year, which leads to unavoidable increase in crowding. 2) The travel industry continually makes it easier for more people to visit more places. And, sadly, 3) People are just more self absorbed now, and not as courteous, making their impact on others a bit more abrasive.

[mrgabriel]

A friend from school lives in Grand Cayman and when we were there (cruise destination) a few years ago we met she and her husband for lunch. They aren’t fans of cruise ships nor are their friends. They do not work in industries associated with or impacted by tourists. He’s in banking, she volunteers with a sea turtle organization. Were we not friends they likely wouldn’t have said anything but we are friends and they told us they would far prefer that tourists flew in for a week to really enjoy the island. 

[Hlitner]

We are talking about "overtourism" of which cruise ships are part of the equation.  Since we cruise (extensively) all over the world and also happen to live, 10 weeks a year, in a cruise port, we see both sides of the coin.  There are some truths and they do not favor the cruise industry.  Cruisers do not contribute a lot of money to most port economies.  Many cruisers rely on cruise ship excursions which often benefit only a shore-based tour company and a few tourist-oriented sites.  These days, many cruisers are even too cheap to buy lunch ashore and will often head back to their ship for their "free lunch" and drinks.  When we have overnighted in ports, it is almost shocking how few passengers go off the ship in the evening to buy dinner ashore, enjoy local entertainment, etc.  

 

The bottom line is that a large majority of folks in many cruise ports (especially smaller ports and islands) now support the idea of limiting or eliminating cruise ships (especially the larger mass market vessels).  In the US you can already see this in Charleston, Bar Harbor and Key West.  In Europe you have problems in Venice, Santorini, Porto, Dubrovnik, etc.  Even in the Pacific, Bora Bora (and some other islands) have already imposed major restrictions on ships.  

 

Some fellow cruisers prefer to deny the obvious and insist that cruising is good for ports.  Really?  One has to only look at St Thomas to see how cruise ships have led to the near ruination of a once popular tourist destination.  Most of the cute boutiques in Charlotte Amalie have been replaced with the usual touristy cruise-based shops (which are not locally owned).  The traffic in Charlotte Amalie is often one big parking lot thanks to the daily influx of cruisers who can total over 25,000!  We still remember St Thomas when it was a delightful sleepy island with great shopping, uncrowded beaches, etc.  Now, if we happen to be on a cruise that docks at that island we generally stay on ship.  And it is the same in several other Caribbean islands.

 

Consider Alaksa where the first thing you might see is a large Diamonds International sign!  Is that why you want to visit Alaksa?  Go to the Denali area and you can see an entire touristy village built and supported by CCL!  

 

The push-back against overtourism has already begun, and it will only get worse in the coming years.  Italy has already built gates, which they can use to close the access roads to Cinque Terre.  The large (and well designed) cruise port in Venice mostly lies empty since locals succeeded in banning nearly all cruise ships (except for some small vessels).  Venice is now working to further limit day tourists by the imposition of a daily tourist access fee (which we assume will gradually increase).  

 

DW and I are now planning a spring trip back to Europe (which includes a TA cruise on a relatively small ship).  While planning a few week post cruise driving trip, we are being careful to avoid any area frequented by cruise excursions or fellow cruisers.  We now plan our independent trips to visit popular places somewhat off season, but mostly focus on terrific places not yet overrun with tourists.  Yes, we are hypocrits (since we are frequent tourists) but there are plenty of wonderful places in the world not yet on the big time cruise and tourist itineraries.  Ironically, we will end our cruise close to Venice (Trieste) but have no plans to visit Venice (a favorite place of ours) since we want to focus on some other places that have yet to be impacted by overtourism.

 

Hank

 

 

[AKJonesy]

These posts do conjure up my own mixed feelings about cruising and the impact on communities.  I see it for myself here in Alaska; yet I cruise.  This topic is a double edged sword for sure.  I do cringe somewhat when I say, "you live by the sword; you die by the sword".  That is, once these communities, or their powers at be accept the cruise industry in their community, they don't just reap rewards, but they also have to deal with what many people have posted here.  I am also mixed about the people that are hired to serve us and where they come from.  Serving cruise passengers may be "a" way for some people to care for their families back home, but the sacrifice is big.  On a recent cruise, I talked to one of my Lido servers on what they would like in their contract, and the answer was fewer months.  I know they have to be tight lipped and smile all of the time.  I do go out of my way asking about them and letting them know I appreciate them.  Sure, I tip big, and it is greatly appreciated, but still it doesn't make me feel good that other people, due to circumstances have to make decisions that I don't.  It's complicated.  At times, I think that we cruisers are giving people opportunities, and then other times, I see the impact on communities.   As I said, it's a double edged sword.