Are Grgich Hills wines gone?

[NMTraveller]

I do see Champagne in the martini bar.  Not sure what brand it is as it just says champagne...

[mahasamatman]

7 hours ago, steve3008 said:

Most of what I prefer are Sonoma or Napa Chardonnays.

 

That's interesting because Sonoma and Napa Chardonnays are polar opposites. Personally, I love Sonoma's offerings but dislike the Napa offerings. Of course, you'll never find the really good Sonoma wines on a cruise ship because they come from the smaller vineyards.

[drakes2]

9 hours ago, DaKahuna said:

I like the Primivito or Merlot.  I should go through all the photo’s from my cruises and create a separate collection of wines. 
 

I do know from lots of experience that my palate is not very refined and I seldom taste all the flavors or smell the fragrances that I hear about or see in the tasting notes.  Mostly it’s just how well it sits on my plate or what after taste I get from it.  
 

There are wines I like, and there are those I do not like. If I order a glass and do not like it, I do not hesitate to ask for something else instead.  

I opened a bottle of 7 deadly cabs from Lodi last night to drink with dinner.  Found them on clearance at my local store. Unfortunately only bought 2 bottles but what a fabulous wine for the price point. 

 

[DaKahuna]

2 hours ago, drakes2 said:

I opened a bottle of 7 deadly cabs from Lodi last night to drink with dinner.  Found them on clearance at my local store. Unfortunately only bought 2 bottles but what a fabulous wine for the price point. 

 

 

Our local Cosco carry's the 7 Deadly and I agree with you, it is a very nice Cab. 

 

[NMTraveller]

So I am seeing a good rose in the Sunset,  Champagne in the martini bar,  and good wines in Cellar masters.  Not seeing much in sky lounge?  

[paulh84]

18 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Well you pretty much can exclude any wine on the classic package.  I probably could drink Zonin but would rather have a champagne.  A Cab at Costco that sells for around $20 a bottle I would consider good.

 

There is very little difference between the wines by the glass offered in the classic versus premium other than the price. They are all commercial wines. Unless you can describe something specific, an appellation, variety or something about the structure of the wine itself that doesn't work for you, you're not getting anything special from ordering by the glass. 

[Beachlover1989]

When we were on Apex in August I spoke with the man in charge of ordering everything (forget his title), during the Senior Officer Event in the Retreat Lounge.  I specifically asked about Opulence, since it's my favorite.  He said he had been told that Celebrity no longer has a contract with Grgich Hills and so they are just using up the supplies they have on hand...

[DaKahuna]

3 hours ago, Beachlover1989 said:

When we were on Apex in August I spoke with the man in charge of ordering everything (forget his title), during the Senior Officer Event in the Retreat Lounge.  I specifically asked about Opulence, since it's my favorite.  He said he had been told that Celebrity no longer has a contract with Grgich Hills and so they are just using up the supplies they have on hand...

 

 I am not happy to hear that.  Opulence was always a reliable, consistent wine that I could go to if nothing else struck my fancy.

 

[Beachlover1989]

6 minutes ago, DaKahuna said:

 

 I am not happy to hear that.  Opulence was always a reliable, consistent wine that I could go to if nothing else struck my fancy.

 

Us too!!

[81Zoomie]

57 minutes ago, Beachlover1989 said:

Us too!!

Add us to the list.  That would take out the lower end Elegance as well.  I  wonder what Celebrity will be offering to replace it?  There are some great wines from Paso Robles and Bordeaux at better price points than some Napa selections.  We will be sailing in about 4 weeks.  Hopefully there is something of the same caliber as Opulence by the glass by then.  Would love to hear from those on board.   Otherwise, we are driving, so no luggage issues.   Will gladly pay the corkage to drink something palatable.

Edited October 30, 2023 by 81Zoomie

[drakes2]

58 minutes ago, DaKahuna said:

 

 I am not happy to hear that.  Opulence was always a reliable, consistent wine that I could go to if nothing else struck my fancy.

 

Me too I have a large amount of obc to use on my Silhouette cruise in November and was planning to try some pricier wines by the glass.  

[DaKahuna]

 I was also more upset when Celebrity removed Wente wines from their menu's.  When I was traveling for work, I was in Livermore, CA about ever other year and joined the Wente wine club.  Use to look forward to my quarterly shipments.  Recently I have been focused more on vineyards in my local area.  There are at least half a dozen within a 20  mile radius of my house. 

 

[markeb]

I guess I’m not surprised Grgich Hills and Celebrity would part ways. Not sure what was in it for Grgich Hills. Unfortunate though. 
 

We lived in the Central Valley for a couple of years twenty years ago. Really liked Wente, and honestly Livermore and Lodi both for the wines and the (not Napa) atmosphere! 

Edited October 30, 2023 by markeb

[NMTraveller]

13 hours ago, paulh84 said:

 

There is very little difference between the wines by the glass offered in the classic versus premium other than the price. They are all commercial wines. Unless you can describe something specific, an appellation, variety or something about the structure of the wine itself that doesn't work for you, you're not getting anything special from ordering by the glass. 

Make that a Napa Cab.  Are there others 🙂

Anyways sometimes I will drink a Cab from Sonoma.

 

I like wine from the Suscol vineyard, Bonanza, and Dauo. Justin (Paso Robles) is not one of them. 

 

Not a fan of the blends or Conundrum.  I would blend differently.

 

So are you saying that I will not taste the difference between the Chateau Souverain and the Grglch Hills or FreeMark Abbey?  

Edited October 31, 2023 by NMTraveller

[markeb]

37 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

Make that a Napa Cab.  Are there others 🙂

Anyways sometimes I will drink a Cab from Sonoma.

 

I like wine from the Suscol vineyard, Bonanza, and Dauo. Justin (Paso Robles) is not one of them. 

 

Not a fan of the blends or Conundrum.  I would blend differently.

 

So are you saying that I will not taste the difference between the Chateau Souverain and the Grglch Hills or FreeMark Abbey?  

 I don’t know. Were you a renowned member of the French wine press in Paris in 1976? Did you select an unknown Chardonnay from Chateau Monteleone (winemaker Mike Grgich) as the best example of a white Burgundy over actual Burgundy wines and change the course of the French and California wine industries?

 

To your real question, you certainly should taste a difference between a $12 bottle of Chateau Soverain and a $55 or so (retail) Freemark Abbey or Grgich Hills. Even more so their good stuff. But many won’t, or won’t care for the difference. One of the wines was made to drink now and offend no one. The others will have significant year to year variations. There are no vintages listed on Celebrity’s wine lists, but they’re probably young, no older than 21 in all likelihood. Still very tannic. Or worse, they’re 2020 and taste of wildfires (I’d hope neither of those would release those wines). 
 

Paso Robles makes some great wines. Some of them are “hotter” in fruit and ABV than I’d like. But Daou and Justin are nice. 
 

Oh, and some of my favorite cabs these days are from Washington, not Napa…

[drakes2]

8 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Make that a Napa Cab.  Are there others 🙂

Anyways sometimes I will drink a Cab from Sonoma.

 

I like wine from the Suscol vineyard, Bonanza, and Dauo. Justin (Paso Robles) is not one of them. 

 

Not a fan of the blends or Conundrum.  I would blend differently.

 

So are you saying that I will not taste the difference between the Chateau Souverain and the Grglch Hills or FreeMark Abbey?  

Love Freemark Abbey and was gifted 2 bottles in my cabin  last September one of which I brought home with me. They were a 2018 vintage not sure if it matters. I grab them when I rarely find on sale here in Canada 🇨🇦 

[CruisinShips]

Big fan of Grgich Hills as well (their whites, especially the Fume Blanc).  I've remained a member of their wine club since my last visit to their winery a few years ago.  I didn't even know they had been available on Celebrity...but I will be checking from now on!

[NMTraveller]

8 hours ago, markeb said:

 I don’t know. Were you a renowned member of the French wine press in Paris in 1976? Did you select an unknown Chardonnay from Chateau Monteleone (winemaker Mike Grgich) as the best example of a white Burgundy over actual Burgundy wines and change the course of the French and California wine industries?

 

I will drink a good French red normally while in France or Europe.  I find that when they bring it over to the US and tax the goodness out of it,  a good French wine is normally out of my price range.  

[NMTraveller]

So will the Sky Lounge bar bring up some of the better wines and champagne if you request it?  Other bars?

[BOB999]

On the Edge they are having a Grgich Hills wine event and one of the sommeliers said they have both Opulence's available by the glass.  Sadly for me those are the only two extra-premium wines offered on the ship.  For me a big downgrade from non-revolutionized M/S class ships where they have several offerings at Cellarmasters. 

[BOB999]

On 10/31/2023 at 8:33 AM, NMTraveller said:

So will the Sky Lounge bar bring up some of the better wines and champagne if you request it?  Other bars?

 

I've had mixed results in the past.  Usually I would just grab a glass of what I want from the bar that has it and bring it to the bar I want to sit at.  Or just frequent the bar that has the stuff I want.

[Arubamoose]

We were on the Edge last February/March and we had the premium package.  

However, I often found that they did not have the premium wines available in the dining rooms.

They SOMETIMES had them in the specialty restaurants.

They cried supply chain issues.  That is getting old.

[zitsky]

On 10/30/2023 at 7:45 PM, markeb said:

I guess I’m not surprised Grgich Hills and Celebrity would part ways. Not sure what was in it for Grgich Hills. Unfortunate though. 
 

We lived in the Central Valley for a couple of years twenty years ago. Really liked Wente, and honestly Livermore and Lodi both for the wines and the (not Napa) atmosphere! 

I mean no disrespect to anyone as I drink wines from almost anywhere.  Do we want the Premium list to be nothing but wines from Livermore and Lodi?  Aren’t there better wines out there?  When I travel I want to experience the best wines available within reason.  I buy wines under $60 and my average wine is $25-30.

[drakes2]

1 hour ago, Arubamoose said:

We were on the Edge last February/March and we had the premium package.  

However, I often found that they did not have the premium wines available in the dining rooms.

They SOMETIMES had them in the specialty restaurants.

They cried supply chain issues.  That is getting old.

I never did believe that excuse. How come we get great wines in Canada both pre and post covid.

 

 

 

[markeb]

7 hours ago, zitsky said:

I mean no disrespect to anyone as I drink wines from almost anywhere.  Do we want the Premium list to be nothing but wines from Livermore and Lodi?  Aren’t there better wines out there?  When I travel I want to experience the best wines available within reason.  I buy wines under $60 and my average wine is $25-30.

 

I didn't suggest wines only from Livermore and Lodi. But there are great wines from both locations, typically at better price points than Napa. Define "better"? More expensive? Older? Single varietal?

 

Price is at best a very imperfect indicator of quality. It's a reasonable indicator of perceived provenance of the wine (a Grand Cru Burgundy is going to be much more expensive than a Willamette Valley Pinot Noir). But I know plenty of wine drinkers, including some wine snobs (and I can be one) that prefer an Oregon Pinot to a Burgundy. so to them, Burgundy isn't "better", just more expensive.

 

Age? Good indicator for traditional reds and some whites, but again, there is a huge group of wine drinkers who buy and drink young wines (see for instance, the popularity of Caymus for it's year to year consistency, not its ability to lay down and age). But wine changes as it ages, and there are people who don't like those changes (I do, at least for most better reds).

 

Single varietals? Many if not most of the world's greatest wines are and have always been blends. The concentration on varietals (Cabernet Sauvignon) versus location (Bordeaux) is a relatively recent, New World thing. And even there it's inconsistent. Opus One is a blend. Many Napa Valley cabs are actually blends, but they meet the requirement (75% cab, BTW) to be marketed as a Cabernet Sauvignon. Actually, Opus One in most years could probably be marketed at a Cabernet, but they don't do that.

 

At $60 a bottle (allowing for regional price differences) you should be able to find a really good wine. They can get better as price increases, but for many (most?) people there's a point of diminishing returns. I have bottles of Opus. I also have bottles that I consider as good or better than Opus that were about half the price. Most of those go into the basement for 8-10 years or more. They're not good candidates to go on a cruise ship wine list. I mean they have Opus listed in the app, but no vintage. It's probably 2019, which would be criminal to open! But $60/bottle at retail is probably $25-30/glass in a restaurant, give or take. The old rule of thumb was to pay off the bottle in about 2 1/2 glasses if memory serves but looks like most folks now recommend charging the wholesale cost of the bottle for a glass.

 

There's a good argument that Celebrity's wine list is really best described as inexpensive and slightly more expensive, not classic and "premium". But it's almost unheard of outside of true wine bars and high end (Michelin starred or similar) restaurants to have a truly premium by the glass program. And those locations aren't trying to curate a wine list that can be drunk at the pool or with a steak au poivre and white table clothes.

 

DaKahuna's original post and my reply had as much to do with our experience at the smaller, fun wineries in Lodi and Livermore (and Amadore County, etc.) as it had to do with the wine. A really crappy Chianti in a basket bottle is amazing when you're drinking it in Florence! A Lodi zin is incredible when you're tasting it with the winemaker in a old warehouse where his tasting bar is a 2 X 12 over two wine barrels...