Tips

[D C]

6 hours ago, crazyank said:

typical American attitude about tipping

You say that as if it's a bad thing. 

[D C]

5 hours ago, Travel-and-See said:

No, you aren’t pre-paying anything. No gratuities are added on to your bills.  Virgin pays their staff more than other cruise lines.  They also let staff have visible tattoos, fun hair, and they provide them with free wi-fi. They take better care of their staff.  

I'm sorry, but this is hilarious. 

Celebrity: we pay the crew X, plus we pay them Y thanks to gratuities, so they get Z in the end 

Virgin: we pay our crew Z, but we charge more 

 

You: Virgin is better because they pay their crews Z

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PTC DAWG]

4 hours ago, Travel-and-See said:

I mean… the silent disco is one of the cheesiest things I’ve seen on a ship haha.  

You haven’t participated when it was done right…loads of of fun for many folks.

[PTC DAWG]

6 hours ago, crazyank said:

typical American attitude about tipping

When in Rome, I see you do as the Germans do. 

[PTC DAWG]

5 hours ago, Travel-and-See said:

No, you aren’t pre-paying anything. No gratuities are added on to your bills.  Virgin pays their staff more than other cruise lines.  They also let staff have visible tattoos, fun hair, and they provide them with free wi-fi. They take better care of their staff.  

Is there a Virgin board here, or did I miss it? 

[Travel-and-See]

54 minutes ago, D C said:

 we pay our crew Z, but we charge more 

do they? Celebrity prices are climbing pretty high!  

its all optics. I like how virgin does the lack of tipping, but on my last celebrity cruise all my tips came out of OBC so I still didn’t pay. So both can be a win. 

[RichYak]

35 minutes ago, Travel-and-See said:

its all optics. I like how virgin does the lack of tipping,

The optics of your second sentence speak more about you than Virgin. 

[upwarduk]

On 3/1/2024 at 1:18 AM, Liao said:

As I'm sure you know, not everyone subscribes to the tipping system determined by the cruise lines.  Some prefer to tip only those that they deal with directly during their cruise.  I personally do not subscribe to that, but to each their own.

As Celebrity have taken tips out of the All Included, we have chosen to transfer our next cruise to Princess, who have them included in their Premier package, which came with our booking.

[Ex-Airbalancer]

5 hours ago, upwarduk said:

As Celebrity have taken tips out of the All Included, we have chosen to transfer our next cruise to Princess, who have them included in their Premier package, which came with our booking.

Tips in , tips out , what difference does it make it 🤔

it is the final on the ship price that important 😉

[RichYak]

14 minutes ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

Tips in , tips out , what difference does it make it 🤔

it is the final on the ship price that important 😉

This 100%. Whether they're:

 

1. included in the booking package

2. pre-paid yourself, or

3. charged to your shipboard account daily

 

it's all the same. I can't understand shunning a cruise line because they don't charge you for gratuities using your preferred choice of these 3 methods.

 

Simply put, when I compare cruise prices, I compare price per night including tips. I don't care how they're charged.

[Pinboy]

KISS——— And I’m not referring to, never mind, right beside me in the Solarium— took my mind off the “ What should I eat for lunch “ decision!!

We price a cruise knowing there will be extra charges , not only Gratuities, other things as well.
Years ago I was offered a Rolex watch —the man told me it’s a real one, asked $125 — no way, so he let it go for $75– “ Boy, You are a tough negotiator “ he told me.

Here’s the answer ——2 days 

Here’s the question—— How long did it take for my wrist to turn green and the dial got stuck on 1:17 ?

So, we keep it simple—

If the price seems fair, click, done , start packing.

Its a shame that so many people have their “ X in a noose “ over gratuities and head straight to GR to remove them! 
 

 

[PTC DAWG]

13 hours ago, Travel-and-See said:

do they? Celebrity prices are climbing pretty high!  

i

I’ve priced Virgin a good bit, always higher for comparable balcony cabins per night with common amenities..enjoy, I’ve seen enough you tube videos to think it’s not for me..

[Travel-and-See]

11 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

I’ve priced Virgin a good bit, always higher for comparable balcony cabins per night with common amenities..enjoy, I’ve seen enough you tube videos to think it’s not for me..

I have gotten really good deals on Celebrity, but those Edge class ships are $$$!  I’m also always shopping for solo deals and virgin has better solo pricing so that might make a difference.  
 

I really like both lines.  Celebrity has very consistent service which I love. 

[the penguins]

On 3/2/2024 at 8:02 AM, upwarduk said:

As Celebrity have taken tips out of the All Included, we have chosen to transfer our next cruise to Princess, who have them included in their Premier package, which came with our booking.

Princess is certainly being very aggressive with it's UK pricing although not as cheap as some would suggest.

Current prices when booking in the UK:

Celebrity: Classic drinks and basic wifi: £39 = approx $47 plus grats of $19 = $66 per person per day.

Princess: Premium drinks, wifi and tips  £50 approx $60 per person per day.

We tried Princess on a TA last spring and found X's onboard performance overall to be better.

As always it's great to have choices - no right or wrong just personal preferences.

 

 

[Spif Barwunkel]

If there was just a modicum of refreshingly new ideas and tipping talking points, this particular thread could actually have been the much-sought-after Holy Grail of gratuitous gratuities. Unfortunately, like many that have gone before, and many that will come and go after, that is not the case. There is no miraculous cure for "tipping syndrome" because symptoms manifest themselves in various ways, and how each of us deals with our own personal affliction is private and should not be subject to another's scrutiny. In the eyes of the beholders, there should be no right or wrong here because how each of us determines our best course of action is all that matters. Fortunately, tipping issues will never prevent us from living to cruise another day.   

Edited March 3 by Spif Barwunkel

[Arizona Wildcat]

3 hours ago, the penguins said:

Princess is certainly being very aggressive with it's UK pricing although not as cheap as some would suggest.

Current prices when booking in the UK:

Celebrity: Classic drinks and basic wifi: £39 = approx $47 plus grats of $19 = $66 per person per day.

Princess: Premium drinks, wifi and tips  £50 approx $60 per person per day.

We tried Princess on a TA last spring and found X's onboard performance overall to be better.

As always it's great to have choices - no right or wrong just personal preferences.

 

 

After a couple HAL and Princess voyages in between dozens of Celebrity Cruises we now cruise for the itinerary. 

Liked that the basic drink package on Princess covered most drinks, but preferred entertainment and food in Celebrity.

As to tipping, the topic of the thread, have entertained many Australians in the US.  Have educated them that is you get good service leave a tip.  Awful service don't. 

However, at home waitstaff that used to get a few dollars plus tips now gets about $12/hrs as a base wage.  Thus less dependent on tips.   Sadly not that way on board where much of their income is from gratuities. 

[gold1953]

On 3/2/2024 at 4:02 AM, upwarduk said:

As Celebrity have taken tips out of the All Included, we have chosen to transfer our next cruise to Princess, who have them included in their Premier package, which came with our booking.

nothing comes with it . They just up the price to cover it

[Harrisonkid]

I have enjoyed this thread. I do remember the old days how the MDR was empty the last night lol. I never care about paying tips because it is just a price to cruise...but if I land based somewhere I would also tip. ...but as  we age I find the cost of Insurance much more expensive then tipping for a service I have recieved😏

[upwarduk]

43 minutes ago, Harrisonkid said:

I find the cost of Insurance much more expensive then tipping for a service I have recieved😏

On another thread, someone mentioned that their husband could no longer be insured, as he is now over 80. 
 Fortunately, our  bank still insures my husband and I.
We are 80&82.

if they ever refuse us insurance , then we will be forced to stop cruising.

[NekoChef]

For those who object to the daily gratuities on Celebrity (and I imagine other RCCL brands) due to principal, cultural, or other reasons [1]. RCCL's latest 10-K filing with the SEC [2] makes it 100% clear that the daily gratuities are part of the ship's crew's negotiated compensation package and therefore should not be declined.

 

• "Our shipboard workforce consisted of approximately, 88,700 employees, and as of December 31, 2023, approximately 88% were covered by collective bargaining agreements."

 

Given this statement and the existence of daily gratuities that can be declined, the way to think about the compensation model is as follows:

– guaranteed base salary [3]

– plus collective performance based variable compensation in the form of the daily gratuity charges distributed pro-rata to the entire crew per a role based schedule [4].

 

 

Consequences of this model:

– declining daily gratuities is a form of collective punishment [5].

– if too many people decline their daily gratuities the crew will lose motivation and service will decline.

– tips (cash)/recognition(surveys, etc) above and beyond the daily gratuities (a) make people feel good about providing good service, and (b) encourage the crew the up their game and compete for plum customer facing positions to increase their earning potential.

 

Best way to handle poor performance:

– kindly and gently make a request to guest services/retreat concierge.

– kindly and gently make a note of it in the post cruise survey.

 

1] I personally am not fan of systems where gratuities/tipping constitute a substantial portion of employee compensation, but my opinion is moot once I decide to engage with a business that uses such a compensation model.

2] Making false or misleading statements in a 10-K or other filing to the US SEC is securities fraud.

3] base salary = cash compensation + room + board + other benefits

4] yes this system is ripe for a Tragedy of the Commons scenario where the compounding effect of ignoring individual poor performance can cause the system to collapse.

5] Collective Punishment is banned by Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention and Article 4 of the Additional Protocol (Link).

[d9704011]

11 minutes ago, NekoChef said:

the compounding effect of ignoring individual poor performance can cause the system to collapse.

How does this expose us to a 'Tragedy of the Commons'?

[RichYak]

39 minutes ago, NekoChef said:

I personally am not fan of systems where gratuities/tipping constitute a substantial portion of employee compensation

I personally AM a fan as it's more of a meritocracy and results in overall higher pay and better quality service. Those who are good at their job get paid well and are very happy with the way the system works.

[NekoChef]

38 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

How does this expose us to a 'Tragedy of the Commons'?

 

In the eponymous example, a tragedy of the commons occurs when a village first allows one member to graze extra livestock as generally there is little effect... and then another person starts grazing and extra livestock and so on until the default assumption is that the elevated amount of cattle each person/family can graze is the elevated amount which is beyond the capacity of the commons to handle and you end up with an over grazed patch of land supporting far less livestock then before the first person introduce extra livestock.

 

Now on a cruise ship, my understanding is that the crew are effectively a village. So the replace "performance" for livestock and the same basic vicious cycle can occur.  First one person under performs, perhaps they had a bad day or perhaps their customers didn't tip them for going above and beyond (the reason doesn't really matter) and the rest of the crew lets it slide as it happens to everyone. Overtime this can cause the expected level of performance to drop and stay dropped as I know of no "stick" which can motivate excellent performance.

 

[NekoChef]

8 minutes ago, RichYak said:

I personally AM a fan as it's more of a meritocracy and results in overall higher pay and better quality service. Those who are good at their job get paid well and are very happy with the way the system works.

 

To be clear, I have no problem with tipping and performance pay. What I have found to be problematic is compensation models heavily skewed towards the variable aspect, especially in cases where the driver of the variable component is a small part of the overall job (e.g. tips). In general it causes the employee to focus on the behaviors that result in tips rather than the non-tipped portions of the job.

 

Tell me how you measure me and I will tell you how I will behave. If you measure me in an illogical way… do not complain about illogical behavior…” (Link)

[RichYak]

2 minutes ago, NekoChef said:

In general it causes the employee to focus on the behaviors that result in tips rather than the non-tipped portions of the job.

I'm not sure I'm following you. What would be examples of the non-tipped portions of my room steward's job?